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Co-operative Bank Kenya 2.6bn insider trading scandal
Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,503 Location: nairobi
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murchr wrote:the deal wrote:murchr wrote:the deal wrote:Mega fraud...unbelievable the same thiefs are still running the bank...what else are this thiefs hiding? but this is Kenya mega corruption must be a way of life now....look at responses above LMAO. Instead of LYAO why dont you explain to these Kenyans how this is "Insider Trading", who these "thieves" stole from and why the responses here don't make sense. Make sure you furnish us with evidence apart from these "reports" from Mwalimu Mati who thinks everyone is a thief (probably he'd call you one too) 1. By logging in here...I will assume you are literate. 2. So go and read the report...the report is clear on the issues you have raised above...why should I recite something that somebody has already raised? 3. After reading the report...google what an ESOP is? And what is insider trading? You will get your answers. 4. I will ask you again...did you read the report? The english is simple & plain...the evidence is well laid out. 5. I seriously dont understand your argument...I think you are the type who argue for the sake of arguing....rather the word FOOL is appropriate LOL. I may be a FOOL as you call me but am not gullible These IPO happened more than 5 years ago and i know Kenyans are not stupid tho may be I am. In the case of mobitelea (safaricom) Kenyans asked questions. Its clear you are not able to answer my questions and you'd rather engage in insults (just like the most "drunk" man in the market). My friend you have alot to learn about Kenya dont get over excited when yu see reports from Mars group. They do this for a living. Yenyewe mobitelea was worse HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/8/2013 Posts: 2,517
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The Co-operative Bank of Kenya Limited ('the Bank') is incorporated in Kenya under the Company's Act and is also licensed to do the business of banking under the Banking Act. The Bank was initially registered under the Co-operative Societies Act at the point of founding in 1965. This status was retained up to and until June 27th 2008 when the Bank's Special General Meeting resolved to incorporate under the Companies Act with a view to complying with the requirements for listing on the Nairobi Stock Exchange (NSE). The Bank went public and was listed on December 22 2008. Shares previously held by the 3,805 co-operatives societies and unions were ring-fenced under CoopHoldings Co-operative Society Limited which became the strategic investor in the Bank with a 64.56% stake. *( that is where it rained ) : rink website The question is How did Cooperatives come to cede 36 % and to whom? What value did they get in return ? Did some Kamlesh Pattnis Emerge overnight with a clever scheme and become Billionaires thro the IPO Investors in the NSE, SACCOs and the Kenyan public are owed an explanation of what exactly went down and if people stole or enriched themselves ilegally by abusing trust , they ought to be named and shamed and that syolen money should be returned to the 'rightful owners ' the SACCOs that painstackingly created COOP Bank lastly what % of COOP shares are actively traded currently ? will there be a deluge or dilution at one point? simple innocent questions tu "😖😡KQ makes money for everyone except the shareholder 😏😏 " overheard in Wazua
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/8/2013 Posts: 2,517
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murchr wrote:Is it wrong for an MD to buy shares? Id be worried if he sold.Remember the monkey story? are you by any chance remotely related to the Muchiri mentioned in this story ? ===》》》 Co-op-Bank-directors-earn-millions-from-sale-of-sharessomebody educate me so the shares availed thro IPO were a mere 19% of the issued and paid up capital ? The gurus break it down for us minions the implication when viewed against the share capital structure. should I put my money in Coop? P.S those equating the Equity Bank scenario to this Coop Bizna ned to have their kiongos examined "😖😡KQ makes money for everyone except the shareholder 😏😏 " overheard in Wazua
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/21/2006 Posts: 1,590
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Our pretense gets worse with time. All this sit was known at the time of the IPO if you had closely followed the story. Undoubtedly like 99% of Kenyans would do, Muriuki et al ate in this process, but the other side of the coin is that the old boy has made Co-op what it is today having pulled it out of the icu. A crime has been committed, but there are many worse moneycrimes that have been done in this nation and if this is where we'll start do something about it, then maybe we need our noggins to be examined. If we were to start with that asole Moi, we can discuss Sehemu ndio nyumba
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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Siringi wrote:murchr wrote:Is it wrong for an MD to buy shares? Id be worried if he sold.Remember the monkey story? are you by any chance remotely related to the Muchiri mentioned in this story ? ===》》》 Co-op-Bank-directors-earn-millions-from-sale-of-sharessomebody educate me so the shares availed thro IPO were a mere 19% of the issued and paid up capital ? The gurus break it down for us minions the implication when viewed against the share capital structure. should I put my money in Coop? P.S those equating the Equity Bank scenario to this Coop Bizna ned to have their kiongos examined SOME EDUCATION NEEDEDTo sustain growth co-op shareholders wanted to raise more capital and thus in June 2008 the shareholders of the bank approved plans to raise additional capital thru an offer for subscription of shares to the public thru the NSE. The shareholders further approved to change the legal status of the bank from a co-op society to a limited liability company to satisfy the CMA regulations for a listed Company - Ref Gazette Notice 7089 dated 8-8-08. The governance structure approved by the shareholders of the new bank became -coopholding cooperative society Ltd –(formally class “A” shares) – 77% -individual Members (former class “B” shares)- 23% In the above structure coop holding now became the holder of the entire shareholding that was held by the 3805 coop societies, over 51K individual share holders (class B) were allocated a similar number of shares PS these shares were trading OTC b4 the IPO. Now, with listing the shareholding became -coop holding- 62% -Others -38%
I have NO RELATION WHATSOEVER WITH MURIUKI "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore .
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Rank: Elder Joined: 8/16/2011 Posts: 2,297
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Muriuki was given that for his "IDEA" An Idea in business is worth it. Segman, Naikuni, Family bank Managing Director, Equity Director, all and sundry are given free shares as an effort to turn around those companies they were or are in.
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/15/2010 Posts: 625
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There seems to have been a massive transfer of value from SACCOs and COOPs to individuals. I don't own any COOP shares, if the SACCOs and COOPs were defrauded, I'm sure they know their way to the CMA and the courts. If they're not complaining then they must have agreed to the deal.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/8/2013 Posts: 2,517
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@muchr and @realty come here you guys remind me of Kimunya's infamous retort " the NSE is not a fish market " but this Coopbank thingy stinks like rotten mbuta. a pig is a pig whatever clothes you put on it.hata upake marashi. this kind of thievery and complacency of authorities give some communities and gaarment a bad name on a serious note therein lies an opportunity for a Doctoral thesis on overnight millionairing the case of Coopbank KE read here some irefutable fact and revisit your posts above. wakulima and poor ignorant Kenyans were ripped off in Kirauti' language people did ninio to njikus and SACCOS who were oo willing. And here in Wazua peoples are beating drum for this monkey business without querying foondamendos ... CBK has a total of 3,492,369,900 issued shares, and a total of 116,068 shareholders. That averages at 30,088 shares per shareholder, regardless of category. More importantly, Kenyan individual shareholders own 939,112,300 shares, and there are 112,774 of them. This averages at only 8,327 shares per Kenyan individual shareholder. Alas, among CBK'S seventeen Directors (who own a total of 138,995,700 shares), the average is a staggering 8,176,217 shares (that's more thank 981 times the number owned by the average Kenyan investor).
In fact, if you compute the average for Kenyan individual investors without including the shares held by the Directors: the total number of shares held by Kenyan individuals (non-directors) drops to 800,116,600 shares, and the average among the 112,757 of them drops to 7,095 shares per individual (which is 1,152 times less than the average for the Directors).
We can look at the directors' allocations to themselves in even starker light, as follows: 1. The Managing Director owned, as at the end of December 2008, a total of 68,121,000 shares. 2. The Chairman of the Board owned 8,000,000 shares 3.The Vice Chairman owned 7,700,000 shares 4. The Company Secretary owned 5,090,000 shares 5. The Commissioner of Cooperatives owned 2,750,000 shares 6. Five other Directors also owned just over 5 million shares each 7. Three other Directors owned exactly 5,000,000 shares each 8. One Director owned 2,750,000 shares 9. One Director owned 2,310,000 shares, and another owned 2,300,000 shares 10. The "poorest Director", representing the Permanent Secretary at the Ministry of Finance, owned what you may call a "token" of 1,000,000 shares! [Currently each share sells at around KES 6.50, or US$0.083]
The circumstances under which these stupendous amounts were allocated and paid for require a forensic investigation. The Directors should step aside while this happens, for, clearly, there has been no transparency here. Previous annual reports of the company may suggest where these shares came from over the years. For at least a couple of years after the bomb blast, annual reports showed significant amounts of issued shares, without explanation as to who was receiving them. The public has reason to need to know now. At the SACCOs, and at the bank's registry, officials did not seem to ever know that additional shares were being made available each year for purchase by members. What Suntra did over the counter, as far as one knew, was to match retail buyers and retail sellers who had owned their shares for some time, perhaps even since before the bomb blast, which nearly reduced the bank to a rubble, in August 1998.
The shares previously held by individual cooperative societies, amounting to 64.56% of the total, were (wisely in my view) grouped together, just before the IPO, under a corporate entity called Co-opholdings Co-operative Society Ltd. This ensured, and still does, control of the bank by the country's cooperative movement. However, the then acting Minister for Finance, John Michuki, issued a strange edict prior to the IPO which keeps secret for some five years or so the identities of the societies (and perhaps other "entities") brought together under that corporate entity. Let us hope that there are not even more rats under cover there. Five years may be too long to find out the truth!..." let your fingers do the walking look for the rink and read The last paragraph should inform why this debate is relevant today! bring out your IPO prospectus and show where and how this monkey business was explained. read published accounts pre and post IPO stop gliating sirkali ina mkono murefu if we really wanted to go for you guys mungefinywa fundamendois muimbe proper you are licky Raia did not become PORK "😖😡KQ makes money for everyone except the shareholder 😏😏 " overheard in Wazua
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 25 Location: moscow na muranga
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FRM2011 wrote:the deal wrote:murchr wrote:the deal wrote:Mega fraud...unbelievable the same thiefs are still running the bank...what else are this thiefs hiding? but this is Kenya mega corruption must be a way of life now....look at responses above LMAO. Instead of LYAO why dont you explain to these Kenyans how this is "Insider Trading", who these "thieves" stole from and why the responses here don't make sense. Make sure you furnish us with evidence apart from these "reports" from Mwalimu Mati who thinks everyone is a thief (probably he'd call you one too) 1. By logging in here...I will assume you are literate. 2. So go and read the report...the report is clear on the issues you have raised above...why should I recite something that somebody has already raised? 3. After reading the report...google what an ESOP is? And what is insider trading? You will get your answers. 4. I will ask you again...did you read the report? The english is simple & plain...the evidence is well laid out. 5. I seriously dont understand your argument...I think you are the type who argue for the sake of arguing....rather the word FOOL is appropriate LOL. @the deal, am assuming this is the first time you are hearing about the supposed irregularities. The issue was raised severally during and after the IPO. Indeed this report seems to have been authored around 2008/2009 period. The so-called dossier by mars group contains info that was in the bank's IPO information memorandum. The bank's top mgt was allocated shares in an ESOP program in 2007. Again this info was publicly available before the IPO. Was the decision to give themselves shares before the IPO legal? I don't know but considering the bank was registered as a cooperative society, all they would have needed to do was ammend a by-law. Was it morally okay ? Now that we can argue until Jesus comes back. Me think as long as all information is available to public its not inside dealing chasing after the wind
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Rank: Member Joined: 3/26/2012 Posts: 280
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The truth of the matter is that the MD, Directors and senior staff borrowed from the bank and bought shares BEFORE the IPO. It is a against the law to lend money for purchase of your own shares. 1.The fact is they bought shares before the IPO, before the share split and at different price than the IPO price. The fact that they did this knowing that the bank would be doing an IPO is what is called insider trading. 2. The rest of the staff bought during the IPO. This what you would call ESOP. If you are a member of a co-op that is a shareholder of the bank, just know that you are the one who was played games otherwise who owns coops? It is you and me. Ask yourself how came the rest of the staff did not make hundreds of millions yet they were also made to borrow and buy the shares. The trick was with the share split. Anyone who had one share, was given 100. This is how it was done 1. Before the IPO allocate each of yourself lots of shares. MD gets say 680,000 shares. OTC price was between shs60 and 80. So he borrows says 50m from the bank and buys the shares. Pls note that the share were acquired before the IPO. They never bought them during the IPO. 2. Carry a share split of 1:100. So he ends up with 68,000,000 shares. 3. AT the IPO with a price of 9.50. The man is already worth 646,000,000.00. At the current price of 18 the man is worth 1.2b. 4. The rest of the staff are made to buy the shares at IPO. So say a staff buys same number of shares as the MD. 680,000 shares. IPO price 9.50. Therefore 680,000*9.50=6.4m. At the current price, the follow is worth 680,000*18=12.2m. I hope the clever guys here can see the connection between the 12.2m and the 1.2b. IT IS THE SHARE SPLIT BEFORE THE IPO. The same game was played at CIC. Just check their financials and see how many shares the Co-op MD and CIC MD. That is why Co-op Bank has heavily invested in CIC more than other co-ops because of this monkey business. As for the coffee written-off thing, the evidence is there. IT will come out one day. The thing about the media not covering the story out of compromise; The former MDs PA knows how he was able to achieve this all along. And in a clearly choreographed move; Ruto's wife is give 5 million by the bank the other day for her foundation. Basically continue buying protection. And nothing will happen to you. Let people make noise. DOH
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/29/2011 Posts: 2,242
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Bachuma Gate wrote:The truth of the matter is that the MD, Directors and senior staff borrowed from the bank and bought shares BEFORE the IPO. It is a against the law to lend money for purchase of your own shares.
1.The fact is they bought shares before the IPO, before the share split and at different price than the IPO price. The fact that they did this knowing that the bank would be doing an IPO is what is called insider trading.
2. The rest of the staff bought during the IPO. This what you would call ESOP.
If you are a member of a co-op that is a shareholder of the bank, just know that you are the one who was played games otherwise who owns coops? It is you and me.
Ask yourself how came the rest of the staff did not make hundreds of millions yet they were also made to borrow and buy the shares. The trick was with the share split. Anyone who had one share, was given 100.
This is how it was done
1. Before the IPO allocate each of yourself lots of shares. MD gets say 680,000 shares. OTC price was between shs60 and 80. So he borrows says 50m from the bank and buys the shares. Pls note that the share were acquired before the IPO. They never bought them during the IPO.
2. Carry a share split of 1:100. So he ends up with 68,000,000 shares.
3. AT the IPO with a price of 9.50. The man is already worth 646,000,000.00. At the current price of 18 the man is worth 1.2b.
4. The rest of the staff are made to buy the shares at IPO. So say a staff buys same number of shares as the MD. 680,000 shares. IPO price 9.50. Therefore 680,000*9.50=6.4m. At the current price, the follow is worth 680,000*18=12.2m. I hope the clever guys here can see the connection between the 12.2m and the 1.2b. IT IS THE SHARE SPLIT BEFORE THE IPO.
The same game was played at CIC. Just check their financials and see how many shares the Co-op MD and CIC MD. That is why Co-op Bank has heavily invested in CIC more than other co-ops because of this monkey business.
As for the coffee written-off thing, the evidence is there. IT will come out one day.
The thing about the media not covering the story out of compromise; The former MDs PA knows how he was able to achieve this all along.
And in a clearly choreographed move; Ruto's wife is give 5 million by the bank the other day for her foundation. Basically continue buying protection. And nothing will happen to you. Let people make noise. @Bachuma Gate, Quite insightful. My coop ( name withheld) made made almost 100m after the listing. The "owners" as u have noted made much more. Hii Kenya ina wenyewe kweli. "Things that matter most must never be at the mercy of things that matter least." Goethe
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/2/2006 Posts: 1,206 Location: Nairobi
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@Bachuma Gate ..... I am not defending anyone but please explain to me whats illegal about an MD taking a loan of say 50M to buy shares of the company before IPO? I also bought CIC shares before listing & on listing at the NSE I made about 5 times what I had borrowed. Formally employed people often live their employers' dream & forget about their own.
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Rank: Member Joined: 3/26/2012 Posts: 280
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bird_man wrote:@Bachuma Gate ..... I am not defending anyone but please explain to me whats illegal about an MD taking a loan of say 50M to buy shares of the company before IPO? I also bought CIC shares before listing & on listing at the NSE I made about 5 times what I had borrowed. He is only allowed to borrow from another organization. Not from company that is raising the capital. CBK banking Regulations. The issue about insider info is that they had prior knowledge. Clearly even the decision to split of 1:100 was done by them knowing how it favour them. DOH
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/5/2010 Posts: 2,459
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Let me first declare my interest in this matter. I made a tidy sum from the listing of coop shares. I also made a tidy sum with equity listing in 2006, ditto CIC in 2010.
It works in a very straightforward manner. A private company's AGM authorises the mgt to pursue listing at the nse. For both equity and coop we went to the villages and offered a premium from the existing individual shareholders. For coop we were offering between 300 to 500 Bob per share. Majority of the shareholders were holding 50 shares of class B shares only. For equity, I have a friend whose life was transformed instantly.
For CIC, the public was invited to participate in the private placement. Many bought because it had been stated clearly that the company would be listed at a future date.
Now @siringi and others are using very strong words to refer to people who made their money during the coop IPO.
The public knew the bank would be listed. The bank's shareholders authorised the creation of additional shares to be allotted to the top mgt as an ESOP. ALL THIS INFO WAS IN THE IM. Nobody is even mentioning that the IM had clearly indicated that these shares would be locked for at least two years after the IPO.
@siringi et.all, I don't think its right to hide under the web to besmirch people's characters.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2012 Posts: 3,855 Location: Othumo
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Bachuma Gate wrote:bird_man wrote:@Bachuma Gate ..... I am not defending anyone but please explain to me whats illegal about an MD taking a loan of say 50M to buy shares of the company before IPO? I also bought CIC shares before listing & on listing at the NSE I made about 5 times what I had borrowed. He is only allowed to borrow from another organization. Not from company that is raising the capital. CBK banking Regulations. And by the way the loans were held in central accounts and treated as advances. processing was centralised in finance but this things still leak. Anyway all in all he has made money through these deals. Thieves
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Rank: Member Joined: 3/26/2012 Posts: 280
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FRM2011 wrote:Let me first declare my interest in this matter. I made a tidy sum from the listing of coop shares. I also made a tidy sum with equity listing in 2006, ditto CIC in 2010.
It works in a very straightforward manner. A private company's AGM authorises the mgt to pursue listing at the nse. For both equity and coop we went to the villages and offered a premium from the existing individual shareholders. For coop we were offering between 300 to 500 Bob per share. Majority of the shareholders were holding 50 shares of class B shares only. For equity, I have a friend whose life was transformed instantly.
For CIC, the public was invited to participate in the private placement. Many bought because it had been stated clearly that the company would be listed at a future date.
Now @siringi and others are using very strong words to refer to people who made their money during the coop IPO.
The public knew the bank would be listed. The bank's shareholders authorised the creation of additional shares to be allotted to the top mgt as an ESOP. ALL THIS INFO WAS IN THE IM. Nobody is even mentioning that the IM had clearly indicated that these shares would be locked for at least two years after the IPO.
@siringi et.all, I don't think its right to hide under the web to besmirch people's characters. My question is " Did they buy the shares during the IPO or before?" Second was any other member of public able to buy similar number of shares freely before the IPO if he wanted. Third what was the need for the IPO if people could buy shares before the IPO. Finally Where did the over 70m shares originate from before IPO.? There was no private placement at Coop. DOH
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/2/2006 Posts: 1,206 Location: Nairobi
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Bachuma Gate wrote:bird_man wrote:@Bachuma Gate ..... I am not defending anyone but please explain to me whats illegal about an MD taking a loan of say 50M to buy shares of the company before IPO? I also bought CIC shares before listing & on listing at the NSE I made about 5 times what I had borrowed. He is only allowed to borrow from another organization. Not from company that is raising the capital. CBK banking Regulations. The issue about insider info is that they had prior knowledge. Clearly even the decision to split of 1:100 was done by them knowing how it favour them. Please paste that CBK Banking Regulation nijionee. You might take 50M loan & at IPO you make a serious loss.It can happen.So there is no insider trading there since everyone (who cared to know) knew there would be an IPO soon, employees & directors I guess could buy freely (they took a leap of faith). If I had borrowed 50M for CIC placement I'd have 0.25Billion.....unfortunately I only invested 150K.Should I be charged with insider trading as well?I know kawaida Coop Bank employees who made 9times what they spent back then.Why not charge them too? Formally employed people often live their employers' dream & forget about their own.
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Rank: Member Joined: 3/26/2012 Posts: 280
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bird_man wrote:Bachuma Gate wrote:bird_man wrote:@Bachuma Gate ..... I am not defending anyone but please explain to me whats illegal about an MD taking a loan of say 50M to buy shares of the company before IPO? I also bought CIC shares before listing & on listing at the NSE I made about 5 times what I had borrowed. He is only allowed to borrow from another organization. Not from company that is raising the capital. CBK banking Regulations. The issue about insider info is that they had prior knowledge. Clearly even the decision to split of 1:100 was done by them knowing how it favour them. Please paste that CBK Banking Regulation nijionee. Boss you might take 50M loan & at IPO you make a serious loss.It can happen.So there is no insider trading there since everyone (who cared to know) knew there would be an IPO soon & the terms.Please search CIC listing here on Wazua. If I had borrowed 50M for CIC placement I'd have 0.25Billion.....unfortunately I only invested 150K.Should I be charged with insider trading as well? About CBK rule you can google. The point is that if this was allowed; A company that needed to raise capital would simply borrow from itself other than go to the public. DOH
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/27/2008 Posts: 4,114
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Suppose you buy a cow at sh20,000. The following day I come and steal it, slaughtered it and sell the meat for Sh50,000. What amount would you sue me for: 20k or 50k? You know that this MARS report is propaganda because of its focus on the 50k instead of the 20k!! Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/27/2008 Posts: 4,114
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obiero wrote:murchr wrote:the deal wrote:murchr wrote:the deal wrote:Mega fraud...unbelievable the same thiefs are still running the bank...what else are this thiefs hiding? but this is Kenya mega corruption must be a way of life now....look at responses above LMAO. Instead of LYAO why dont you explain to these Kenyans how this is "Insider Trading", who these "thieves" stole from and why the responses here don't make sense. Make sure you furnish us with evidence apart from these "reports" from Mwalimu Mati who thinks everyone is a thief (probably he'd call you one too) 1. By logging in here...I will assume you are literate. 2. So go and read the report...the report is clear on the issues you have raised above...why should I recite something that somebody has already raised? 3. After reading the report...google what an ESOP is? And what is insider trading? You will get your answers. 4. I will ask you again...did you read the report? The english is simple & plain...the evidence is well laid out. 5. I seriously dont understand your argument...I think you are the type who argue for the sake of arguing....rather the word FOOL is appropriate LOL. I may be a FOOL as you call me but am not gullible These IPO happened more than 5 years ago and i know Kenyans are not stupid tho may be I am. In the case of mobitelea (safaricom) Kenyans asked questions. Its clear you are not able to answer my questions and you'd rather engage in insults (just like the most "drunk" man in the market). My friend you have alot to learn about Kenya dont get over excited when yu see reports from Mars group. They do this for a living. Yenyewe mobitelea was worse In the case of Mobitelea, Kenyans did not lose a single cent! It was not a scandal! Mobitelea did not own any shares in SCOM! It was a partner with Vodafone PLC in Vodafone Kenya. Vodafone Kenya owns a part of SCOM. When the IPO was done, the Vodafone Kenya shares did NOT come into the equation at all!! If anyone was justified to complain about Mobitelea, it would have been Vodafone PLC, but as it was, they weren't! To me, it was a case of " pilipili usio ila, yakuwashiani?" Another propaganda battle between politicians! Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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Co-operative Bank Kenya 2.6bn insider trading scandal
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