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Kikuyus, Please Come (Here)
Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,634
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Lolest! wrote:
yur theory is funny. The language logic is faulty. No way a derived language can be more complicated.
The Agikuyu do not claim that they are descended from the Kamba. This is a new theory.
They are not my theories, I simply rephrased them. Please read up on consonant drift, there is plenty online. As for the Agikuyu and the Kamba, I refer you to Professor Godfrey Muriuki's work and, partly Professor Kabeeca Mwaniki. They are better authorities than you or I. Finally, allow me to repeat myself "A language is a dialect with an army." I suspect the chief reason you can make such an "off hand" dismissal is because you come from the dominant group. Where is Magigi? My in-lwas and I need to go back to the bush. "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Chief Joined: 5/9/2007 Posts: 13,095
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This is what my lower sch teacher wrote on the board...and the rest was a combination picked from either of this(I might have jumped some)...By the way I never forgot to read Kikuyu...when in Shags, I read for them a Kikuyu Bible fluently. I even have a Kikuyu Bible...I therefore thought its a simple language until I went through this thread. I didnt know it was such a complex language.
a,e,i,o,u,ĩ,ŭ. Eg aaaiiii..
ba,be,bi,bo,bu,bĩ,bŭ. Eg baba
ca,ce,ci,co,cu,cĩ,cŭ. Eg cucu
da,de,di,do,du,dĩ,dŭ. Eg
ga,ge,gi,go,gu,gĩ,gŭ. Eg guka
ha,he,hi,ho,hu,hĩ,hŭ. Eg hau
ka,ke,ki,ko,ku,kĩ,kŭ. eg kŭndŭ
ma,me,mi,mo,mu,mĩ,mŭ. eg mŭtĩ
na,ne,ni,no,nu,nĩ,nŭ. Eg nŭgu
ra,re,ri,ro,ru,rĩ,rŭ. Eg rŭrĩrĩ
ta,te,ti,to,tu,tĩ,tŭ. Eg tŭti
wa,we,wi,wo,wu,wĩ,wŭ. Eg wira
ya,ye,yi,yo,yu,yĩ,yŭ. Eg yothe
While expanding to the next level, there are others that involves addition of n or m before some of the above
nda,nde,ndi,ndo,ndu,ndĩ,ndŭ. Eg Nduma
mba,mbe,mbi,mbo,mbu,mbĩ,mbŭ. Eg Mbembe
nja, nje,nji,njo,nju,njĩ,njŭ. Eg Njururi
Others its a t
tha,the,thi,tho,thu,thĩ,thŭ
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2007 Posts: 8,776 Location: Cameroon
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washiku wrote:This is what my lower sch teacher wrote on the board...and the rest was a combination picked from either of this(I might have jumped some)...By the way I never forgot to read Kikuyu...when in Shags, I read for them a Kikuyu Bible fluently. I even have a Kikuyu Bible...I therefore thought its a simple language until I went through this thread. I didnt know it was such a complex language.
a,e,i,o,u,ĩ,ŭ. Eg aaaiiii..
ba,be,bi,bo,bu,bĩ,bŭ. Eg baba
ca,ce,ci,co,cu,cĩ,cŭ. Eg cucu
da,de,di,do,du,dĩ,dŭ. Eg
ga,ge,gi,go,gu,gĩ,gŭ.
ha,he,hi,ho,hu,hĩ,hŭ.
ja,je,ji,jo,ju,jĩ,jŭ.
ka,ke,ki,ko,ku,kĩ,kŭ.
ma,me,mi,mo,mu,mĩ,mŭ.
na,ne,ni,no,nu,nĩ,nŭ.
ra,re,ri,ro,ru,rĩ,rŭ.
ta,te,ti,to,tu,tĩ,tŭ.
wa,we,wi,wo,wu,wĩ,wŭ.
ya,ye,yi,yo,yu,yĩ,yŭ.
there are others that involves addition of n or m before some of the above
nda,nde,ndi,ndo,ndu,ndĩ,ndŭ. Eg Nduma
mba,mbe,mbi,mbo,mbu,mbĩ,mbŭ. Eg Mbembe
nja, nje,nji,njo,nju,njĩ,njŭ. Eg Njururi
hakuna kitu kama jajejijoju.....J doesn't stand alone at least in the alphabet that I was taught. Refer to Clown's post. In fact, no kikuyu name has a stand alone J, but NJ eg, Wanja, Wanjau, Njau, Njarana, Njaramba...as for the spoken version hehehe TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/9/2008 Posts: 5,389
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,634
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Money Whisperer wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:Money Whisperer wrote:
. From what we are agreed here Kikamba is further from the root than Gikuyu. Now if Gikuyu still retains the hard consonants and Kikamba drifted from the hard consonants what did they (Kamba) change from? definitely an older dialect that still retains the hard consonants. This explains the shift from Kirinyaga to Keenyaa
Some neat circular logic here  But it doesn't change anything. After all linguistics is not the only evidence we have that the Kamba are ancestors of the Agikuyu. The Agikuyu themselves say as much. "Muthoniwa" - in law, which is what the Kamba are to the Agikuyu - is not just a description of the family that gave you a wife. It also means 'the place where my lineage began.' Without the Kamba, the Gikuyu would not be. I'm simply applying your logic to prove my point. I could go further and use other theories like Derridean deconstruction and study the palimpsests in Kikamba that denote previous older dialect (Gikuyu) that is under erasure. As for the athoniwa angle you need to study the Agikuyu mythology to see the narrative of Wamuyu the youngest of Gikuyu's daughters who got married by foreigners and her clan became the athoni (in-laws) who are the Akamba I think we can close this debate by disagreeing to disagree. To summarize my points: 1. Consonant drift - clearly indicates that Kamba, being more 'phonetically degraded' than Gikuyu must be older. 2. There is even more persuasive evidence from anthropology to show that it is the Agikuyu who borrowed from the Kamba, not the reverse 3. Finally, more controversial, there is evidence that Gikuyu is a recently invented tribe (just like Kalenjin, Luyia etc). Its myth of origin, clan structure, military organization, leadership and philosophy are largely borrowed from neighboring tribes. Language and ethnic identity are deeply emotive and political issues and it is hard to debate them without seeming like I am threatening the hegemony of the house of Mumbi. Nevertheless you have given me a lot to think about. I thank you. P.S. as a BTW, do you realize the Gikuyu translation of your handle is the exact opposite of its meaning in English? In Gikuyu Money whisperer would be "Muhuhi wa mbia" descended from "Muhuhi wa mbura" who is a rain stopper. "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Chief Joined: 5/9/2007 Posts: 13,095
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simonkabz wrote:washiku wrote:This is what my lower sch teacher wrote on the board...and the rest was a combination picked from either of this(I might have jumped some)...By the way I never forgot to read Kikuyu...when in Shags, I read for them a Kikuyu Bible fluently. I even have a Kikuyu Bible...I therefore thought its a simple language until I went through this thread. I didnt know it was such a complex language.
a,e,i,o,u,ĩ,ŭ. Eg aaaiiii..
ba,be,bi,bo,bu,bĩ,bŭ. Eg baba
ca,ce,ci,co,cu,cĩ,cŭ. Eg cucu
da,de,di,do,du,dĩ,dŭ. Eg
ga,ge,gi,go,gu,gĩ,gŭ.
ha,he,hi,ho,hu,hĩ,hŭ.
ja,je,ji,jo,ju,jĩ,jŭ.
ka,ke,ki,ko,ku,kĩ,kŭ.
ma,me,mi,mo,mu,mĩ,mŭ.
na,ne,ni,no,nu,nĩ,nŭ.
ra,re,ri,ro,ru,rĩ,rŭ.
ta,te,ti,to,tu,tĩ,tŭ.
wa,we,wi,wo,wu,wĩ,wŭ.
ya,ye,yi,yo,yu,yĩ,yŭ.
there are others that involves addition of n or m before some of the above
nda,nde,ndi,ndo,ndu,ndĩ,ndŭ. Eg Nduma
mba,mbe,mbi,mbo,mbu,mbĩ,mbŭ. Eg Mbembe
nja, nje,nji,njo,nju,njĩ,njŭ. Eg Njururi
hakuna kitu kama jajejijoju.....J doesn't stand alone at least in the alphabet that I was taught. Refer to Clown's post. In fact, no kikuyu name has a stand alone J, but NJ eg, Wanja, Wanjau, Njau, Njarana, Njaramba...as for the spoken version hehehe Hehehe...sasa Jomo tutamtupa wapi? Or that was not Gikuyu? I doubt it was Njomo. But anyway you could be right. I will look for that kabook I had. It was called "Wirute Gikuyu Kiega" by someone there
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Wakanyugi wrote:Lolest! wrote:
yur theory is funny. The language logic is faulty. No way a derived language can be more complicated.
The Agikuyu do not claim that they are descended from the Kamba. This is a new theory.
They are not my theories, I simply rephrased them. Please read up on consonant drift, there is plenty online. As for the Agikuyu and the Kamba, I refer you to Professor Godfrey Muriuki's work and, partly Professor Kabeeca Mwaniki. They are better authorities than you or I. Finally, allow me to repeat myself "A language is a dialect with an army." I suspect the chief reason you can make such an "off hand" dismissal is because you come from the dominant group.Where is Magigi? My in-lwas and I need to go back to the bush. I told you my reasons. They are close to @whisperers. I understand a bit of each of the Mt Kenya languages, and with my layman's knowledge and bit of history can't just get how a more complicated language is derived from a less complicated one. And scholars will sometimes get over innovative. Like trying to link everyone to Egypt. Makes us feel good, right?
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/7/2010 Posts: 728 Location: Wazuaville
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@wakanyugi, Great discussion I enjoyed it kabisaa and stirred my interest in the subject. It seems we need to interrogate Profs Muriuki and Mwaniki's theses on the subject they might have got it wrong from where I stand. after all we were given the powers to read and write and do all that appertains... which includes disagreeing with profs "Money never sleeps"
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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washiku wrote:simonkabz wrote:washiku wrote:This is what my lower sch teacher wrote on the board...and the rest was a combination picked from either of this(I might have jumped some)...By the way I never forgot to read Kikuyu...when in Shags, I read for them a Kikuyu Bible fluently. I even have a Kikuyu Bible...I therefore thought its a simple language until I went through this thread. I didnt know it was such a complex language.
a,e,i,o,u,ĩ,ŭ. Eg aaaiiii..
ba,be,bi,bo,bu,bĩ,bŭ. Eg baba
ca,ce,ci,co,cu,cĩ,cŭ. Eg cucu
da,de,di,do,du,dĩ,dŭ. Eg
ga,ge,gi,go,gu,gĩ,gŭ.
ha,he,hi,ho,hu,hĩ,hŭ.
ja,je,ji,jo,ju,jĩ,jŭ.
ka,ke,ki,ko,ku,kĩ,kŭ.
ma,me,mi,mo,mu,mĩ,mŭ.
na,ne,ni,no,nu,nĩ,nŭ.
ra,re,ri,ro,ru,rĩ,rŭ.
ta,te,ti,to,tu,tĩ,tŭ.
wa,we,wi,wo,wu,wĩ,wŭ.
ya,ye,yi,yo,yu,yĩ,yŭ.
there are others that involves addition of n or m before some of the above
nda,nde,ndi,ndo,ndu,ndĩ,ndŭ. Eg Nduma
mba,mbe,mbi,mbo,mbu,mbĩ,mbŭ. Eg Mbembe
nja, nje,nji,njo,nju,njĩ,njŭ. Eg Njururi
hakuna kitu kama jajejijoju.....J doesn't stand alone at least in the alphabet that I was taught. Refer to Clown's post. In fact, no kikuyu name has a stand alone J, but NJ eg, Wanja, Wanjau, Njau, Njarana, Njaramba...as for the spoken version hehehe Hehehe...sasa Jomo tutamtupa wapi? Or that was not Gikuyu? I doubt it was Njomo. But anyway you could be right. I will look for that kabook I had. It was called "Wirute Gikuyu Kiega" by someone there I am yet to read 'Facing Mt Kenya' but wazuans who've quoted it here say Kenyatta had issues with mzungu's Kikuyu alphabet. There is no single j in current Kikuyu which we were taught back then. The book must be Wirute Guthoma by Fred Kago. Haven't seen it in bookshops but Mithomere ya Agikuyu is available at Bookpoint
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Rank: Chief Joined: 5/9/2007 Posts: 13,095
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Lolest! wrote:washiku wrote:simonkabz wrote:washiku wrote:This is what my lower sch teacher wrote on the board...and the rest was a combination picked from either of this(I might have jumped some)...By the way I never forgot to read Kikuyu...when in Shags, I read for them a Kikuyu Bible fluently. I even have a Kikuyu Bible...I therefore thought its a simple language until I went through this thread. I didnt know it was such a complex language.
a,e,i,o,u,ĩ,ŭ. Eg aaaiiii..
ba,be,bi,bo,bu,bĩ,bŭ. Eg baba
ca,ce,ci,co,cu,cĩ,cŭ. Eg cucu
da,de,di,do,du,dĩ,dŭ. Eg
ga,ge,gi,go,gu,gĩ,gŭ.
ha,he,hi,ho,hu,hĩ,hŭ.
ja,je,ji,jo,ju,jĩ,jŭ.
ka,ke,ki,ko,ku,kĩ,kŭ.
ma,me,mi,mo,mu,mĩ,mŭ.
na,ne,ni,no,nu,nĩ,nŭ.
ra,re,ri,ro,ru,rĩ,rŭ.
ta,te,ti,to,tu,tĩ,tŭ.
wa,we,wi,wo,wu,wĩ,wŭ.
ya,ye,yi,yo,yu,yĩ,yŭ.
there are others that involves addition of n or m before some of the above
nda,nde,ndi,ndo,ndu,ndĩ,ndŭ. Eg Nduma
mba,mbe,mbi,mbo,mbu,mbĩ,mbŭ. Eg Mbembe
nja, nje,nji,njo,nju,njĩ,njŭ. Eg Njururi
hakuna kitu kama jajejijoju.....J doesn't stand alone at least in the alphabet that I was taught. Refer to Clown's post. In fact, no kikuyu name has a stand alone J, but NJ eg, Wanja, Wanjau, Njau, Njarana, Njaramba...as for the spoken version hehehe Hehehe...sasa Jomo tutamtupa wapi? Or that was not Gikuyu? I doubt it was Njomo. But anyway you could be right. I will look for that kabook I had. It was called "Wirute Gikuyu Kiega" by someone there I am yet to read 'Facing Mt Kenya' but wazuans who've quoted it here say Kenyatta had issues with mzungu's Kikuyu alphabet. There is no single j in current Kikuyu which we were taught back then. The book must be Wirute Guthoma by Fred Kago. Haven't seen it in bookshops but Mithomere ya Agikuyu is available at Bookpoint We forgot ng'a,ng'e,ng'i,ng'o,ng'u,ng'ĩ,ng'ŭ
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2007 Posts: 8,776 Location: Cameroon
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Lol! washiku don't go there hahaha! I reminisce with lots of nostalgia! Witute Guthoma by Fred K Kago is the little booklet. "hihi ini ti ihiu", "moko ma komo" TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
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Rank: Chief Joined: 5/9/2007 Posts: 13,095
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simonkabz wrote:Lol! washiku don't go there hahaha! I reminisce with lots of nostalgia! Witute Guthoma by Fred K Kago is the little booklet. "hihi ini ti ihiu", "moko ma komo"  Umeguza palipo...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/7/2007 Posts: 11,935 Location: Nairobi
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Njomo is a prominent Gikuyu word/name.....Jomo must have been derived. @Thimioni, Kago was a very good writer but i believe Gakaara wa Wanjau (Gakaara press),was the best of them all.Anyone who knows where i can get his works?. Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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washiku wrote:simonkabz wrote:Lol! washiku don't go there hahaha! I reminisce with lots of nostalgia! Witute Guthoma by Fred K Kago is the little booklet. "hihi ini ti ihiu", "moko ma komo" Umeguza palipo... Cege rehe itete
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/7/2007 Posts: 11,935 Location: Nairobi
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Lolest! wrote:washiku wrote:simonkabz wrote:Lol! washiku don't go there hahaha! I reminisce with lots of nostalgia! Witute Guthoma by Fred K Kago is the little booklet. "hihi ini ti ihiu", "moko ma komo" Umeguza palipo... Cege rehe itete Was it?.....I remember,"Cege rehe gitete" Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/21/2013 Posts: 2,841 Location: Here
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Lolest! wrote:a4architect.com wrote:Most kikuyu words are similar to xhoha, swahili and rwandese eg Ngombe, kuku, maji.
The interahamwe in rwandese is directly translated to turihamwe in kikuyu, meaning we are together.
The Bostwana/setswana language, a cow is ngombe, meat is nyama, chicken is kuku,water is metsi ,similar to kikuyu.
Interahamwe in Kinyarwanda means those who fight together. Sounds like Ita ri hamwe in Gikuyu. When they count, you'd think you're in Wakulima. 50 is mirongo itanu, 100 is Ijana(j is like the French one here), 200 magana bibiri, 500 magana atanu, 600 magana atandatu..etc The Mzungu studied the Gikuyu and their cousins around the mountain and concluded that they belong to one group the Bantu(from Abantu meaning people or watu or Andu in some Bantu dialects) If the Bantu have similar words even with cousins thousands of kms away, why isn't the same case applying for Nilotes?  I remember listening to Radio Rwanda on shortwave radio back in the day in the village. The language sounded eerily familiar. I still recall how they'd describe 30 as mirongo itatu, or makumi tatu when speaking in Swahili. Speaking of which, anybody noticed how Kiswahili itself has so many different dialects? Most are so different from our 'textbook Kiswahili' that a local is easily able to identify a guy from 'bara'. I have had the opportunity to interact with some from North Coast, close to the Somalia border, where they replace v with z, thus viatu becomes ziatu, viazi becomes ziazi; and also replace ch with t, thus chupa becomes tupa, etc. Life is like playing a violin solo in public and learning the instrument as one goes on.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/27/2008 Posts: 4,114
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Not a Kikuyu name. Corruption of Johnstone Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/27/2008 Posts: 4,114
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During my class one days deep inside Mŭrang'a the order of the vowels was: a,e,i,ĩ,o,u,ŭ. I remember singing that repeatedly in class. Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/8/2013 Posts: 2,517
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simonkabz wrote:washiku wrote:This is what my lower sch teacher wrote on the board...and the rest was a combination picked from either of this(I might have jumped some)...By the way I never forgot to read Kikuyu...when in Shags, I read for them a Kikuyu Bible fluently. I even have a Kikuyu Bible...I therefore thought its a simple language until I went through this thread. I didnt know it was such a complex language.
a,e,i,o,u,ĩ,ŭ. Eg aaaiiii..
ba,be,bi,bo,bu,bĩ,bŭ. Eg baba
ca,ce,ci,co,cu,cĩ,cŭ. Eg cucu
da,de,di,do,du,dĩ,dŭ. Eg
ga,ge,gi,go,gu,gĩ,gŭ.
ha,he,hi,ho,hu,hĩ,hŭ.
ja,je,ji,jo,ju,jĩ,jŭ.
ka,ke,ki,ko,ku,kĩ,kŭ.
ma,me,mi,mo,mu,mĩ,mŭ.
na,ne,ni,no,nu,nĩ,nŭ.
ra,re,ri,ro,ru,rĩ,rŭ.
ta,te,ti,to,tu,tĩ,tŭ.
wa,we,wi,wo,wu,wĩ,wŭ.
ya,ye,yi,yo,yu,yĩ,yŭ.
there are others that involves addition of n or m before some of the above
nda,nde,ndi,ndo,ndu,ndĩ,ndŭ. Eg Nduma
mba,mbe,mbi,mbo,mbu,mbĩ,mbŭ. Eg Mbembe
nja, nje,nji,njo,nju,njĩ,njŭ. Eg Njururi
hakuna kitu kama jajejijoju.....J doesn't stand alone at least in th e alphabet that I was taught. Refer to Clown's post. In fact, no kikuyu name has a stand alone J, but NJ eg, Wanja, Wanjau, Njau, Njarana, Njaramba...as for the spoken version hehehe There's no da de di do du dì dù either. "d" only appears in "nd" Ndùngù, Nduta, Ndiang'ui, ndùma,nduma, ndundu, "😖😡KQ makes money for everyone except the shareholder 😏😏 " overheard in Wazua
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/8/2013 Posts: 2,517
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tassia wrote:Lolest! wrote:jguru wrote:I have a question.
If Gikuyu was derived from Kamba, how then is it that a person who speaks in the tongue cannot easily comprehend a conversation in Kamba, yet that person can comprehend a conversation in other Bantu languages (Meru, Embu, Kisii, Buganda, Kinyarwanda etc)?
German, Afrikaans, Dutch and English have similarities because they belong to the same language family. aiiii? Kikamba is close to Kikuyu. So close that someone who speaks the Kikuyu language can guess a lot of what the Wakamba are saying. The words are just easier or with v sound in place of f sound. e.g Kikuyu Kikamba Witagwo atia Witawa ata Ndiraigua toro Niiwa too Njau Nza Watinda atia? Watinda ata Wanja Wanza Some names are also shared without varying pronunciation e.g. Muthama, Munyaka I agree. But Embu might be the closest language to Kikuyu followed by Kikamba. But I find that language spoken in Rwanda, I guess it's Kinyarwanda closer to Kikuyu than any other language spoken in Kenya especially the counting of numbers. kisii is very close to kikuyu. sample this: gikuyu vs ekegusii tiga vs tiga toro vs toro rora vs rora maitho vs amaiso mutwe vs motwe kanua vs monua mirongo vs merongo igùrù vs igoro nyùngù vs nyongo kùira vs koira gùkìa vs gokia ùtùko vs b otuko most importantly what the two hold dearest MUGUNDA Vs MOGONDO the list is endless "😖😡KQ makes money for everyone except the shareholder 😏😏 " overheard in Wazua
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