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ICC HE Uhuru Kenyatta PORK - 12th November
masukuma
#271 Posted : Wednesday, November 27, 2013 11:18:47 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
alma wrote:
masukuma wrote:

@alma you are being temperamental as usual... kindly answer the question!! you figure coz I cannot stand your candidate i must have voted for mtembezi! my candidate was also beaten just like yours (I have stated many too many times that my candidate was beaten by Dida) so its not buyers remorse. I have kept on asking this question over and over again and no one seems to answer it HOW DOES KENYA BENEFIT FROM HAVING A PRESIDENT SEATED AT THE HAGUE FOR 3 WEEKS? jamani nielezeni!!! @alma wacha ku-set question yako.... jibu hio swali.


Kenya doesn't benefit from having a president seated at the Hague for 3 weeks.

In fact, Kenya doesn't benefit from having a president at the Hague even on skype.

Make matters worse, Kenya doesn't benefit if our president is considered an Al-bashir look alike.


The choice was made and the results aren't pleasant. However pan-africanist or as some are saying westernised Kenyans are, the consequences aren't something that we are going to run away from.

It's like leaving your house to go to Mombasa then making a wrong turn to go to Kisumu. On getting to Naivasha, you start arguing with your wife on who was wrong, who caused the problem, why didn't you tell me, you're a hyena waiting for my arm to fall etc.

Forgetting that someone made a choice. Another choice has to be made and pronto before gas kwishas. You now have to decide to go to Kisumu or turn around and head back to Mombasa.

Question then becomes, who's going to make that decision, the driver or the passenger.

Tafakari hayo.

How's that for an answer Masukuma? Answered all your 3 questions.

you have answered the question in the part marked red above the rest its all your venting and answering questions you have set for yourself.
unfortunately, there is no choice that can be made now!! you president (not the other one that "dear in your heart" like i heard someone say the other day) will from now hence forth disappear for 3 weeks or maybe 4 to go sit in that room and bangaiza the whole day. for those who keep on saying... Oh! Oh!
Quote:
During the Presidential debates UK said that the ICC cases is a personal challenge. He should thus go to Hague and clear his name...

Kwani you bought that? I actually think you didn't coz you still voted for the other man/woman. The people that bought that are awfully quiet in this forum on this matter. do you believe it's "a personal challenge"? if you do - why do you have issues with Ole lenku's story on nakumatt 'mattresses' that had been stocked at the westgate?
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
kollabo
#272 Posted : Wednesday, November 27, 2013 11:27:01 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 2/3/2012
Posts: 1,317
Its clear now isn't it. The man wanted to deal with this thing as a personal matter. That's why he signed off for Messi to take things. But his tribal brigade would hear none of it. This mans tribe might just bring him down.
alma
#273 Posted : Wednesday, November 27, 2013 11:28:43 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
masukuma wrote:


Kenya doesn't benefit from having a president seated at the Hague for 3 weeks.

In fact, Kenya doesn't benefit from having a president at the Hague even on skype.

Make matters worse, Kenya doesn't benefit if our president is considered an Al-bashir look alike.




you have answered the question in the part marked red above the rest its all your venting and answering questions you have set for yourself.
unfortunately, there is no choice that can be made now!! you president (not the other one that "dear in your heart" like i heard someone say the other day) will from now hence forth disappear for 3 weeks or maybe 4 to go sit in that room and bangaiza the whole day. for those who keep on saying... Oh! Oh!
[/quote]

Glad we agree that this whole scenario doesn't benefit the country.

Now masukuma answer my question

Who's fault is that. Therein lies the kunguni.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
Tebes
#274 Posted : Wednesday, November 27, 2013 11:49:31 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/26/2008
Posts: 2,097
ZZE123 wrote:
During the Presidential debates UK said that the ICC cases is a personal challenge. He should thus go to Hague and clear his name...



Now the personal challenge is being pushed into the throat of CSs, Kenyans, AU and by extension 1 billion Africans!!!Sad Sad Sad



Quote:
Inevitably, it must be appreciated that the outcome of this vote demonstrates that the Security Council does not serve the interests of a majority of its members ...It cannot be that a few countries take decisions that go against reason and wisdom in a matter so important to nearly one billion Africans.... But the Security Council has failed to do this and humiliated the continent and its leadership.

The Security Council has failed the African continent, which will have to make its own judgment in the coming days and weeks about how it wishes to engage with the Security Council, which obviously does not believe the voices of more than one quarter of its members is significant enough to warrant its serious and purposive attention.
"Never regret, if its good, its wonderful. If its bad, its experience."
masukuma
#275 Posted : Wednesday, November 27, 2013 11:54:56 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
alma wrote:
masukuma wrote:


Kenya doesn't benefit from having a president seated at the Hague for 3 weeks.

In fact, Kenya doesn't benefit from having a president at the Hague even on skype.

Make matters worse, Kenya doesn't benefit if our president is considered an Al-bashir look alike.




you have answered the question in the part marked red above the rest its all your venting and answering questions you have set for yourself.
unfortunately, there is no choice that can be made now!! you president (not the other one that "dear in your heart" like i heard someone say the other day) will from now hence forth disappear for 3 weeks or maybe 4 to go sit in that room and bangaiza the whole day. for those who keep on saying... Oh! Oh!


Glad we agree that this whole scenario doesn't benefit the country.

Now masukuma answer my question

Who's fault is that. Therein lies the kunguni.
[/quote]
it depends on who you ask... asking me. its the parliamenterians who wanted to fix each other when they were shouting 'lets not be vague lets to go the hague', its also the TNA brigade that pressured Uhuru to kick away messi calling the rest of the sane voices 'matimoni'. once he was elected it was the international community for letting this thing 'go too' far. its something that even they are uncomfortable with (reading between the lines of all those abstentions). Finally, its the fault of all those who voted for Johnny Mtembezi and Billy Wailer (no doubt good guys who can perform when their focus is on the job at hand). they really don't have the time to sort us out with our issues and at the same time sort out their issues. our issues are many!!! just this year alone we have had drama to last 3 moi presidential terms (ama back then ignorance was bliss?). But after apportioning blame we need to ask ourselves - WHERE DOES THIS LEAVE US? after finger pointing to our hearts content - WHERE DOES THIS LEAVE US? hmm?
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
tycho
#276 Posted : Wednesday, November 27, 2013 12:08:24 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
The case is both personal and national, and it's especially personal when running for presidency, and national when keeping it.

'We' should be careful about how we move as a nation because the Presidency in Kenya, even after constitutional change, is enormously vital in securing our resources, and promoting a culture that will help us to flourish in this twenty first century. One could say that we are like in a hostage situation of our own making.

The problem we are having is one in which all of us have to lose something. Justice can reign if the losses are structured in such a way that leaves every player alive and convinced that given the circumstances everyone has had a fair share. Then, AU and the UN and the ICC will come to a mutual agreement and we'll sail through.

But if the President and his deputy maintain their game plan, the nation will be left in disarray and patching things up, even for the hyenas won't be easy.

It's much like a case in 'emancipation'. The ICC may be an emancipator to some; but slavery is in the mind. And one thing I am certain about, is that Kenya has not been working her mind in such a direction. So we'll still continue being slaves being watched over by ICC and the UN. Then UN and the ICC will corrupt, and all hope will be gone.

Yes, ICC, and the UN security council can be calmed down, and Kenya cooled, and interestingly, the global economy can be given a megaboost, and revolution experienced from Egypt to Madagascar, to Greece and Spain, and England and America itself. Kenya can be a center of global foreign policy (either way, the international system will change into a multicentered system).


mkonomtupu
#277 Posted : Wednesday, November 27, 2013 12:10:11 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 2/10/2010
Posts: 1,001
Location: River Road
kollabo wrote:
Its clear now isn't it. The man wanted to deal with this thing as a personal matter. That's why he signed off for Messi to take things. But his tribal brigade would hear none of it. This mans tribe might just bring him down.



Applause Applause Applause The guy gives up too easily he wanted to quit politics altogether when the charges against him were confirmed only the tribal brigade made him man up. The tribal brigade wanted a poster boy and he was the perfect guy for the time.
Shotgun
#278 Posted : Wednesday, November 27, 2013 12:29:59 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/10/2008
Posts: 480
Someone help me understand this Video Link manenos.

-Does it not mean Mtembezi will also be staring at State House ceiling throughout the trial?

-Will there be a live link in the courtroom showing Mtembezi following the trials?

-If so, what will be the use of the video link other than Number 1 not being in the court physically?

Much Know
#279 Posted : Wednesday, November 27, 2013 12:55:21 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 3,589
"[I am] inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa [because] all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours—whereas all the testing says not really." James Watson DNA 'Discoverer'1962 Nobel Prize in Physiology/Medicine quoted on TIME Magazine in 2007....i sometimes wonder because....

As an Independent Country, we are under NO OBLIGATION to go, because the Rome Statute, was created via the Atlantic Charter of 1941 signed between Franklin D Roosevelt and Wintson Churhill and it's mandate, and all UN mandates fall within the following principles:-.

The Atlantic Charter acted as clarification that America was supporting Britain in the war. Both America and Britain wanted to present their unity, regarding their mutual principles and hopes for the post-war world and the policies they agreed to follow once the Nazis had been defeated.[7] A fundamental aim was to focus on the peace that would follow, and not specific American involvement and war strategy, although American involvement appeared increasingly likely.[8]

The eight principal points of the Charter were:

no territorial gains were to be sought by the United States or the United Kingdom;
territorial adjustments must be in accord with the wishes of the peoples concerned;
all people had a right to self-determination;
trade barriers were to be lowered;
there was to be global economic cooperation and advancement of social welfare;
the participants would work for a world free of want and fear;
the participants would work for freedom of the seas;
there was to be disarmament of aggressor nations, and a post-war common disarmament.

Because of the Principle of the Right to Self Determination, highlighted above, Which Kenyans exercised peacefully in a FREE and FAIR election of 51% (THE ICC CASE AUTOMATICALLY TERMINATED HERE and OBAMA should have been the first one to congratulate UK), we are a SELF DETERMINED independent Nation whose President CANNOT be ordered around under the Mercy of clerks and police, and watchmen, plugs, searched in cells, YET he is the leader of a PEACEFUL nation....yet JAMES WATSON said that AFRICANS are THICK scientifically, and PROOF is some KENYANS wanted their PRESIDENT whom now 'we all' elected to go to JAIL, based on a bad or bad decision by only two human JUDGES (who often make mistakes). This is why USA and BRITAIN could only fumble at the VOTE...Because in PRINCIPAL they know they are wrong to fight democracy and sovereignty for whatever imagined gains that "can be imagined", by violence or FORCE, just as HITLER tried, it NEVER works...that was the lesson from a long terrible war....INDEPENDENCE of PEACEFUL nations....most people don't know that this is the document that GUARANTEED Africas independence...Because it is widely Known...Roosevelt demanded it as A CONDITION..so as long as there is PEACE, Uhuru is most needed HERE...Otherwise ICC should have given him a clearance certificate because OUR COURTS cleared him.....THINK about IT.
Ras Kienyeji Man
Shotgun
#280 Posted : Wednesday, November 27, 2013 5:00:51 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/10/2008
Posts: 480
Atleast Kenya has achieved to change the ICC from within. Hope the noise will now subside.


@AmnestyCIJ 1h
Amendments update: #ASP12 has achieved consensus on new rule on presence at trial thru video/counsel. No state noted an objection. @_CICC

@AmnestyCIJ 1h
Rule 134 bis-quater on video presence and excusal are in a package with Rule 68 on prior testimony & Rule 100 on in situ proceedings #ASP12

@AmnestyCIJ 59m
Resolution adopting rule changes will note that "amendments... shall not be applied retroactively" emphasizing Art 51(4) #ASP12

@AmnestyCIJ 56m
Amb Paul Sager of #switzerland reads the new rule 134 start to finish; #Kenya thanks for the compromise #ASP12 pic.twitter.com/YrVfJ740AS

@AmnestyCIJ 54m
No one claps for the adoption of the Rule amendments resolution #ASP12

@AmnestyCIJ 50m
Full text of Rule134 bis ter quarter on presence through video and excusal: #ASP12 pic.twitter.com/hXPLUNn5g0

@AmnestyCIJ 44m
#Uganda says that Rule 134 amd "reflects" recognition of presumption of innocence #ASP12 @_CICC

@liz_evenson 42m
Kenya, Nigeria, Namibia, Uganda, South Africa, Zambia, Tanzania so far taking the floor to support agreed outcome on new #ICC rules. #ASP12

@AmnestyCIJ 39m
#Senegal response to Rule change: "heartfelt commendations" for this "constructive" #ASP12 @_CICC

@AmnestyCIJ 35m
#sierraleone suggests implementation of new Rules should be reported on at next #ASP12 @_CICC

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