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Is Machakos City another real estate venture like Konza City?
Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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a4architect.com wrote:@murchir, in konza, ndemo used tax payer money to buy land then resell the same land which is bad for the economy.
in machakos, Alfred mutua has not used any tax payer money to buy land hence not affecting economy in terms of land price, etc.
In a capitalist govt environment, govt should not tax its citizens, then use the same tax to buy land from its citizens, then resell the same land. An economist would be in a better position to explain to you the economic effects of govt doing this.
@jamplu. Since mutua is not using tax payer money direct from treasury to develop machakos city, he can hire architects from whichever country he deems fit. In the Konza situation, Ndemo was using our tax payer money direct from treasury to pay expensive american and British architects which is wrong for the economy.
Machakos city looks like a genuine corruption free initiative compared to Konza which to date, will still remain a white elephant.
Any money to be made in konza was for a few people and the money was made. Whoever lost their money will have learnt a good lesson on how to check viability of real estate investment . Hio economics siwezi elewa. The concept is the same ZONING. It doesn't matter if land is bought and sold or land was set aside b4. In developed countries, govts buy farm land to dev cities. By the way.....ECONOMIES ARE STIMULATED BY GOVT SPENDING. Hoarding money in treasury has never built any econ. Why do u thing China is spending money here? "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 1,668 Location: nairobi
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@murchr..these economics are quite deep, you will have to make Google your friend to grasp the concept.Let me give you pointers to use for your research. 1. Government spending to buy land in Kenya will eventually result in rapid land price appreciation. Land is the most important factor of production so if the price goes high, this means less productivity. 2. Its true economies are stimulated by Govt spending. Govt spending should be in areas of improving infrastructure eg roads,education etc, not in ways that lead to inflation hence poverty. 3. Govt is unique in that it has capacity to print money hence alter the economy hence inflation. If Govt is allowed to compete with its citizens, this can create situations where it just prints money, buys everything, resells, taxes its citizens even more. In such situation, citizens will take years before they realise the cause of the high inflation is govt printing money etc. As long as Govt spends money on improving factors of production ,i.e land, capital and labour, its ok. For example, in Konza, Govt spent billions to buy land. An acre jumped from 100k to 4 million hence unaccesible to many productive Kenyans. If Govt spent the billions in infrastructure, the increase in land price could have been gradual and balance out with the new increased productivity. In the case of Konza, no new productivity, no new infrastructure but the land price increased hence a loss to the economy. As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 121 Location: Nairobi
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a4architect.com wrote:@murchr..these economics are quite deep, you will have to make Google your friend to grasp the concept.Let me give you pointers to use for your research.
1. Government spending to buy land in Kenya will eventually result in rapid land price appreciation. Land is the most important factor of production so if the price goes high, this means less productivity.
Not really true; it depends on what it does with this land. If Govt. decides to buy ALL kibera land and build 1000 Times Towers for residential purposes, what will happen to the price of land? It will go down.
2. Its true economies are stimulated by Govt spending. Govt spending should be in areas of improving infrastructure eg roads,education etc, not in ways that lead to inflation hence poverty.
Government spending in roads and education can also bring about inflation. While government spending on private sector areas like the production of goods like Maize and beans, can bring about lowers prices and a better functioning market.
3. Govt is unique in that it has capacity to print money hence alter the economy hence inflation. If Govt is allowed to compete with its citizens, this can create situations where it just prints money, buys everything, resells, taxes its citizens even more. In such situation, citizens will take years before they realise the cause of the high inflation is govt printing money etc.
Government ALWAYS competes with its citizenz - even in the good old USA; in R&D, check out the TVA. Furtheermore, printing of money will not necessarily cause inflation...it all depends on the economy.
As long as Govt spends money on improving factors of production ,i.e land, capital and labour, its ok.
By buying LAND and improving it's usage, government is increasing the Supply of LAND. Remember in the economic sense, Land is not a plot....
For example, in Konza, Govt spent billions to buy land. An acre jumped from 100k to 4 million hence unaccesible to many productive Kenyans.
If the govt bought the @4M, that's corruption, and not about economic theory.
If Govt spent the billions in infrastructure, the increase in land price could have been gradual and balance out with the new increased productivity.
In Nairobi, GVT is not buying any land....why is the price escalating? Govt needs to step in and increase the supply of land by building a new city in eastlands.
In the case of Konza, no new productivity, no new infrastructure but the land price increased hence a loss to the economy. On Christ Alone
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 1,668 Location: nairobi
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@nesta, i think we are arguing on totally different subjects.Lets keep the arguments on real situations on the ground and how fiscal economy is affected. As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 1,668 Location: nairobi
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nesta wrote:a4architect.com wrote:@murchr..these economics are quite deep, you will have to make Google your friend to grasp the concept.Let me give you pointers to use for your research.
1. Government spending to buy land in Kenya will eventually result in rapid land price appreciation. Land is the most important factor of production so if the price goes high, this means less productivity.
Not really true; it depends on what it does with this land. If Govt. decides to buy ALL kibera land and build 1000 Times Towers for residential purposes, what will happen to the price of land? It will go down.
iF Govt buys all Kibera land and builds skyscrapers, cost of rent will reduce and banks that have financed real estate investoers will collapse, leading to a colapse of all the economy.
2. Its true economies are stimulated by Govt spending. Govt spending should be in areas of improving infrastructure eg roads,education etc, not in ways that lead to inflation hence poverty.
Government spending in roads and education can also bring about inflation. While government spending on private sector areas like the production of goods like Maize and beans, can bring about lowers prices and a better functioning market.
How can govt spending in roads and education bring inflation? Explain with examples.
3. Govt is unique in that it has capacity to print money hence alter the economy hence inflation. If Govt is allowed to compete with its citizens, this can create situations where it just prints money, buys everything, resells, taxes its citizens even more. In such situation, citizens will take years before they realise the cause of the high inflation is govt printing money etc.
Government ALWAYS competes with its citizenz - even in the good old USA; in R&D, check out the TVA. Furtheermore, printing of money will not necessarily cause inflation...it all depends on the economy.
Give examples of Govt competing with its citizens. Unless in banana republics, no where else citizens can allow got to compete . Govt only provides goods and services that private sector cant eg public hospitals,schools, roads, etc.where there is no direct competition.
As long as Govt spends money on improving factors of production ,i.e land, capital and labour, its ok.
By buying LAND and improving it's usage, government is increasing the Supply of LAND. Remember in the economic sense, Land is not a plot....
Land is constant and cant be increased or decreased.
It can only be improved thru infrastructure or demolished thru toxic nuclear waste dumping.
Govt owns most of the land in Kenya . Govt can use compulsory acquisition law to acquire any land in Kenya for public use.
For example, in Konza, Govt spent billions to buy land. An acre jumped from 100k to 4 million hence unaccesible to many productive Kenyans.
If the govt bought the @4M, that's corruption, and not about economic theory.
Govt should not even be buying land in the first place, as happend in Konza.Machakos city land was not bought hence viable.
If Govt spent the billions in infrastructure, the increase in land price could have been gradual and balance out with the new increased productivity.
In Nairobi, GVT is not buying any land....why is the price escalating? Govt needs to step in and increase the supply of land by building a new city in eastlands.
Nairobi land price escalation is due to real demand due to lack of Govt to increase infrastructure to exapand the city hence no space for expansion. Nairobi CBD can only expand to upperhill with very narrow roads.
Govt does not need to buy land in Eastleight and build a new city. All it needs is create Zoning laws that say in Eastleight, all new buildings must have 10 floors and above, with several floors of underground parking etc etc. Govt can then upgrade the infrastructure. After this, Eastleigh will then naturally transform to a new city without Govt buying land and building cities.
In the case of Konza, no new productivity, no new infrastructure but the land price increased hence a loss to the economy. As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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a4architect.com wrote:@murchr..these economics are quite deep, you will have to make Google your friend to grasp the concept.Let me give you pointers to use for your research.
1. Government spending to buy land in Kenya will eventually result in rapid land price appreciation. Land is the most important factor of production so if the price goes high, this means less productivity.
Not true at all. Who will be competing with govt to push the prices up?
2. Its true economies are stimulated by Govt spending. Govt spending should be in areas of improving infrastructure eg roads,education etc, not in ways that lead to inflation hence poverty.
When govt acquires land, its sole aim is to improve infrastructure so as to lure the investors it so wishes. EG the Educators and others who will offer employment.
3. Govt is unique in that it has capacity to print money hence alter the economy hence inflation. If Govt is allowed to compete with its citizens, this can create situations where it just prints money, buys everything, resells, taxes its citizens even more. In such situation, citizens will take years before they realise the cause of the high inflation is govt printing money etc. There was no case of printing money here, just aquiring idle land and zoning it so where is the reselling etc coming from?
As long as Govt spends money on improving factors of production ,i.e land, capital and labour, its ok. So you agree that land should be improved...this is what is happening, zoning and making that land more useful. Labor too and idle capital. Indeed its for the govt to gain here by gaining tax
For example, in Konza, Govt spent billions to buy land. An acre jumped from 100k to 4 million hence unaccesible to many productive Kenyans. Are these productive Kenyans the ones who buy and subdivide in 1/8ths?
If Govt spent the billions in infrastructure, the increase in land price could have been gradual and balance out with the new increased productivity. Indeed Govt will spend Billions in imroving infrastructure and etc that go with it then investors will gain confidence.In the case of Konza, no new productivity, no new infrastructure but the land price increased hence a loss to the economy.I understand apart from the WHERE Konza lies i.e Machakos/Makueni/Kajiado....there are those who feel it should be in Thika...dump politics "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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murchr wrote:a4architect.com wrote:@murchr..these economics are quite deep, you will have to make Google your friend to grasp the concept.Let me give you pointers to use for your research.
1. Government spending to buy land in Kenya will eventually result in rapid land price appreciation. Land is the most important factor of production so if the price goes high, this means less productivity.
Not true at all. Who will be competing with govt to push the prices up?
2. Its true economies are stimulated by Govt spending. Govt spending should be in areas of improving infrastructure eg roads,education etc, not in ways that lead to inflation hence poverty.
When govt acquires land, its sole aim is to improve infrastructure so as to lure the investors it so wishes. EG the Educators and others who will offer employment.
3. Govt is unique in that it has capacity to print money hence alter the economy hence inflation. If Govt is allowed to compete with its citizens, this can create situations where it just prints money, buys everything, resells, taxes its citizens even more. In such situation, citizens will take years before they realise the cause of the high inflation is govt printing money etc. There was no case of printing money here, just aquiring idle land and zoning it so where is the reselling etc coming from?
As long as Govt spends money on improving factors of production ,i.e land, capital and labour, its ok. So you agree that land should be improved...this is what is happening, zoning and making that land more useful. Labor too and idle capital. Indeed its for the govt to gain here by gaining tax
For example, in Konza, Govt spent billions to buy land. An acre jumped from 100k to 4 million hence unaccesible to many productive Kenyans. Are these productive Kenyans the ones who buy and subdivide in 1/8ths?
If Govt spent the billions in infrastructure, the increase in land price could have been gradual and balance out with the new increased productivity. Indeed Govt will spend Billions in imroving infrastructure and etc that go with it then investors will gain confidence.In the case of Konza, no new productivity, no new infrastructure but the land price increased hence a loss to the economy.I understand apart from the WHERE Konza lies i.e Machakos/Makueni/Kajiado....there are those who feel it should be in Thika...dump politics @arct....I know this concept of zoning is boring but i believe to some extent it could bring down prices as speculators will be weeded out. Those not developing land are by law forced to relinquish it. Works perfectly elsewhere, "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 1,668 Location: nairobi
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@murchr..yes. Zoning helps to enable infrastructure growth. Zoning has been in place/active in Kenya since 1963. All parts of the country are either zoned as agricultural, commercial, residential, industrial or educational. The 99 year lease document gives the councils the power to reclaim undeveloped land but its rarely enforced. The new land commission should ensure this is enforced through idle land taxation. Zoning is dynamic. eg most of Kitengela, Kiambu, Ruiru, Syokimau etc is zoned as agricultural so people intending to construct houses have to aply for the zoning to be changed into residential. This application can be thru precedent or through planning. Physical planners write a report explainign why the zone needs to be changed eg from agric to residential, or residential to industrial etc then the council planner evaluates and either agrees or declines. As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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Phase 1 of konza to start in Dec 2013 http://www.investmentken...ember-after-firm-picked
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 1,668 Location: nairobi
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any info on which companies have bought into Konza as of now? As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/9/2008 Posts: 5,389
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/21/2011 Posts: 2,032
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I agree with this opinion. The problem with our governors is that they are not able to think outside the box. Mutua spent much of his youthful time in Dubai and USA and got mesmerised with big cities, now he thinks he can plant Dubai in Machakos pap. Building a city is like climbing a tree, you always start from the bottom never from the top. It would have been better strategy to look for water first – for domestic use first then irrigation.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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a4architect.com wrote:@murchr..yes. Zoning helps to enable infrastructure growth. Zoning has been in place/active in Kenya since 1963. All parts of the country are either zoned as agricultural, commercial, residential, industrial or educational. The 99 year lease document gives the councils the power to reclaim undeveloped land but its rarely enforced. The new land commission should ensure this is enforced through idle land taxation.
Zoning is dynamic. eg most of Kitengela, Kiambu, Ruiru, Syokimau etc is zoned as agricultural so people intending to construct houses have to aply for the zoning to be changed into residential. This application can be thru precedent or through planning.
Physical planners write a report explainign why the zone needs to be changed eg from agric to residential, or residential to industrial etc then the council planner evaluates and either agrees or declines. Zoning ya kenya is very old sch esp when changing land use...very poorly managed. Infact a well zoned out neighborhood should have some uniformity to preserve the value of property "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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And Kenyans Keep watching as Dr Alfred Mutua teaches you some very important lessons. When he said he's going to host CECAFA 90% of Kenyans rubbished the idea, he set aside around 5M to rehabilitate the stadium ( note close to the same amount Siaya is hoping to spend in the reelection bash of the gov) many asked him how grass would grow there.....go have a look at his facebook page. If your still doubting him think again. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/21/2011 Posts: 2,032
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murchr wrote: And Kenyans Keep watching as Dr Alfred Mutua teaches you some very important lessons. When he said he's going to host CECAFA 90% of Kenyans rubbished the idea, he set aside around 5M to rehabilitate the stadium ( note close to the same amount Siaya is hoping to spend in the reelection bash of the gov) many asked him how grass would grow there.....go have a look at his facebook page. If your still doubting him think again. I saw tens of skyscrapers in Mutua’s dream city – more than Nairobi CBD - are there people in them and what business are they transacting?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/15/2012 Posts: 1,110
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I would rather give the governor the space he needs than criticize his idea with empty rhetoric. When a certain guy said that he'll build a ship with steel, many people thought he was a fool. Well, steel sinks in water and the people were entitled to their opinions anyway. When the Wright brothers said they'll build a plane to go through air, many thought it was another damn idea. Well, it had not been done before and no one would have thought it would be possible. Give the governor his chance. Live Full Die Empty - Les Brown.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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limanika wrote:murchr wrote: And Kenyans Keep watching as Dr Alfred Mutua teaches you some very important lessons. When he said he's going to host CECAFA 90% of Kenyans rubbished the idea, he set aside around 5M to rehabilitate the stadium ( note close to the same amount Siaya is hoping to spend in the reelection bash of the gov) many asked him how grass would grow there.....go have a look at his facebook page. If your still doubting him think again. I saw tens of skyscrapers in Mutua’s dream city – more than Nairobi CBD - are there people in them and what business are they transacting? His office is less than 16Kms to mks town knock on his door and ask him. Or wait to see like everyone else "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/21/2011 Posts: 2,032
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murchr wrote:limanika wrote:murchr wrote: And Kenyans Keep watching as Dr Alfred Mutua teaches you some very important lessons. When he said he's going to host CECAFA 90% of Kenyans rubbished the idea, he set aside around 5M to rehabilitate the stadium ( note close to the same amount Siaya is hoping to spend in the reelection bash of the gov) many asked him how grass would grow there.....go have a look at his facebook page. If your still doubting him think again. I saw tens of skyscrapers in Mutua’s dream city – more than Nairobi CBD - are there people in them and what business are they transacting? His office is less than 16Kms to mks town knock on his door and ask him. Or wait to see like everyone else I will not visit to ask but wish him well. Am only offering constructive criticism which he is entitled to ignore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Very interesting!Echoes my fearsthough I still hope our new cities work. How did Nigerians do Abuja? @young? But on the other hand, isn't lack of water the main thing Machakos govt has been dealing with?
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/16/2013 Posts: 123 Location: MSA
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Just stambled upon this in a googles group, any one with info on this guys, Shileli International LtdProperty Consultants and Roadworks Contractors AFFORDABLE PLOTS FOR SALE. Located at only 25 km along Magadi road from Kiserian. There is a very pure coming upcoming town called Ol tepesi also known as Tinga. Interestingly many prominent persons and highly acclaimed institutions have purchased land in this area because the proposed Greater Southern Bypass is passing through that area (connecting Mombasa road through Konza City, Isinya, Magadi Road, and Narok at Suswa), thus creating a vast opportunity for the growth and development of Tinga Town. Also the road from Kiserian through Olepolos to Magadi is being widened and re-tarmaced. Oltepesi is also the proposed Kajiado West Administration Location. The plots are 50* 100 (1/8)in size at a 100k per plot for cash buyers inclusive of title processing and 120k for installments inclusive of title processing. If you book and pay within 15 days, we consider that a cash buy. With installments, you place a 50% deposit bal in 3 months. Viewing is every Saturdays and Wednesdays at no cost Timely advice is as lovely as golden apples in a silver basket. Proverbs 25:11
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Is Machakos City another real estate venture like Konza City?
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