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matrimonial property bill
quicksand
#31 Posted : Wednesday, November 13, 2013 12:20:37 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/5/2010
Posts: 2,061
Location: Nairobi
deleted.
thuks
#32 Posted : Wednesday, November 13, 2013 12:30:07 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 10/8/2008
Posts: 1,575
quicksand wrote:
deleted.

understood!
I care!
poundfoolish
#33 Posted : Wednesday, November 13, 2013 12:44:35 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/2/2009
Posts: 2,458
Location: Nairobi
That bill is perfectly fair..

I know women who have worked hard only for their men to sustain other mipango wa kandoz..

Kila mtu na jasho lake. If I acquired wealth before I met you. let mine be mine, we can share the profits and dividends and whatever else accrues from it pamoja. Same applies to you and what is yours.

equality does not mean getting what you did not work for at the stroke of a pen; either to join or annul a union
quicksand
#34 Posted : Wednesday, November 13, 2013 12:57:33 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/5/2010
Posts: 2,061
Location: Nairobi
poundfoolish wrote:
That bill is perfectly fair..

I know women who have worked hard only for their men to sustain other mipango wa kandoz..

Kila mtu na jasho lake. If I acquired wealth before I met you. let mine be mine, we can share the profits and dividends and whatever else accrues from it pamoja. Same applies to you and what is yours.

equality does not mean getting what you did not work for at the stroke of a pen; either to join or annul a union

Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause
Well said.
tycho
#35 Posted : Wednesday, November 13, 2013 1:44:37 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
quicksand wrote:
poundfoolish wrote:
That bill is perfectly fair..

I know women who have worked hard only for their men to sustain other mipango wa kandoz..

Kila mtu na jasho lake. If I acquired wealth before I met you. let mine be mine, we can share the profits and dividends and whatever else accrues from it pamoja. Same applies to you and what is yours.

equality does not mean getting what you did not work for at the stroke of a pen; either to join or annul a union

Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause
Well said.


If this bill becomes law our society and culture will take a most positive turn. I think it's enough to make Kenya a 'super country'.
Wendz
#36 Posted : Wednesday, November 13, 2013 1:47:45 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/19/2008
Posts: 4,268
My simple question is, there are many men who request their wives to stop working to take care of their children until a certain age. In the process, this wife does not have any income and any investments done therefore will not have her direct contribution. So what happens in that case.

There are men who, by bad luck, loose their employment and during that period, only their wives are the bread winners, during this period, this man is not in a position to contribute directly for any investments in the family, what happens in future if they split?

There are situations where, the man gets a good job out of the country. Requests the wife, for the sake of the family unity to leave employment and join him in the new work station, at this period, this partner has no income she can directly contribute for investment. what happens if they split later?

A wife is working in bank and hence entitled to a favourable mortgage rate. the couple decides that the woman takes up the mortgage while the man takes up all other duties at home - understandably, the woman would be left with barely nothing after deductions. Since the contract is between her and the employer, there is no evidence that the man contributed into the purchase of the "matrimonial" home, which would be in the wife's name. What happens in case they later split?

Jibu tunalo hatuna?
kizee1
#37 Posted : Wednesday, November 13, 2013 1:54:56 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/29/2010
Posts: 679
Location: nairobi
Wendz wrote:
My simple question is, there are many men who request their wives to stop working to take care of their children until a certain age. In the process, this wife does not have any income and any investments done therefore will not have her direct contribution. So what happens in that case.

There are men who, by bad luck, loose their employment and during that period, only their wives are the bread winners, during this period, this man is not in a position to contribute directly for any investments in the family, what happens in future if they split?

There are situations where, the man gets a good job out of the country. Requests the wife, for the sake of the family unity to leave employment and join him in the new work station, at this period, this partner has no income she can directly contribute for investment. what happens if they split later?

A wife is working in bank and hence entitled to a favourable mortgage rate. the couple decides that the woman takes up the mortgage while the man takes up all other duties at home - understandably, the woman would be left with barely nothing after deductions. Since the contract is between her and the employer, there is no evidence that the man contributed into the purchase of the "matrimonial" home, which would be in the wife's name. What happens in case they later split?

Jibu tunalo hatuna?



the sword cuts both ways, the media has made it seem like women alone would be affected, but as you point out many women own property so the issue of fairness is moot
Wendz
#38 Posted : Wednesday, November 13, 2013 1:55:46 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/19/2008
Posts: 4,268
YoungMulla wrote:
Am glad parliament put some sanity into this bill.This maneno of splitting wealth half-way is total BS.

If i love my wife even after the marriage I will very freely give her half and continue to look after my children.BUT when the law stipulates it then some cheeky young ladies who want to prey on men will take advantage of this.What I worked for is mine, what we acquired together is ours!

As for the argument of taking care of the home and children, please, as if men also don't pay bills and educate the children. That whole argument doesn't hold any water!!


This makes perfect sense. What one acquired before marriage, unless he/she willingly wants to share, then it is theirs. what they acquire later, is for the two of them. However, what if you'd acquired a plot before marriage at Kshs 50k. After many years, you sell off the plot at Kshs1 million and use that to buy a property where you build your matrimonial home during marriage. is this "your"(individual) property or would it be deemed to have been acquired together given that the property was bought during the marriage?

Lawyers have some work here. This thing is not black and white as we would love it to be.
rryyzz
#39 Posted : Wednesday, November 13, 2013 1:57:23 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 5/19/2012
Posts: 552
Wendz wrote:
My simple question is, there are many men who request their wives to stop working to take care of their children until a certain age. In the process, this wife does not have any income and any investments done therefore will not have her direct contribution. So what happens in that case.

There are men who, by bad luck, loose their employment and during that period, only their wives are the bread winners, during this period, this man is not in a position to contribute directly for any investments in the family, what happens in future if they split?

There are situations where, the man gets a good job out of the country. Requests the wife, for the sake of the family unity to leave employment and join him in the new work station, at this period, this partner has no income she can directly contribute for investment. what happens if they split later?

A wife is working in bank and hence entitled to a favourable mortgage rate. the couple decides that the woman takes up the mortgage while the man takes up all other duties at home - understandably, the woman would be left with barely nothing after deductions. Since the contract is between her and the employer, there is no evidence that the man contributed into the purchase of the "matrimonial" home, which would be in the wife's name. What happens in case they later split?

Jibu tunalo hatuna?
Applause Applause Applause The obvious answer ni Jibu hatuna.
When you decide to legislate on matrimonial issues you tend to cause more confusion than provide answers.


Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around.... Leo Buscaglia
Wendz
#40 Posted : Wednesday, November 13, 2013 2:08:38 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/19/2008
Posts: 4,268
kizee1 wrote:
Wendz wrote:
My simple question is, there are many men who request their wives to stop working to take care of their children until a certain age. In the process, this wife does not have any income and any investments done therefore will not have her direct contribution. So what happens in that case.

There are men who, by bad luck, loose their employment and during that period, only their wives are the bread winners, during this period, this man is not in a position to contribute directly for any investments in the family, what happens in future if they split?

There are situations where, the man gets a good job out of the country. Requests the wife, for the sake of the family unity to leave employment and join him in the new work station, at this period, this partner has no income she can directly contribute for investment. what happens if they split later?

A wife is working in bank and hence entitled to a favourable mortgage rate. the couple decides that the woman takes up the mortgage while the man takes up all other duties at home - understandably, the woman would be left with barely nothing after deductions. Since the contract is between her and the employer, there is no evidence that the man contributed into the purchase of the "matrimonial" home, which would be in the wife's name. What happens in case they later split?

Jibu tunalo hatuna?



the sword cuts both ways, the media has made it seem like women alone would be affected, but as you point out many women own property so the issue of fairness is moot


That's the thing. people are just jumping up and down and these are the questions we need to be asking.... not getting all emotional about the whole thing. Anyone can own property and women these days are clinching well paying jobs and doing massive investments. Infact, if you ask many of these real estate sellers they'll tell you there are many many women buying these houses.... I think the point is to be objective and deal with real issues.

If laws are to be passed which concern families, they need to be done by very sober people.... i don't know if our parliament is that sober. this is not a battle between men and women. it should be a battle to maintain the least disruption to the family as much as possible, before, during and even after the marriage. It shouldnt create a situation where one party takes advantage of the other. For example, we have as many Mbuguas these days as we have young gals ready to reap where they did not saw. May be what you owned before marriage is yours, 50/50 for property acquired DURING marriage if marriage lasts 10+ years.... less than that, you take home what you have invested in.... something like that.
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