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matrimonial property bill
Rank: Member Joined: 4/5/2008 Posts: 30
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tycho wrote:A positive step towards the end of 'marriage'. Better more towards property mpango wa kando. Death by sword 
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/22/2011 Posts: 1,325
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Women be very careful who you marry, lest you end up with the likes of quicksand!! Do the women you are dating a favor, and print out what you just wrote, atleast that way she knows what she's getting into. For once I agree with Mukiri, just unapologetically get married to your material possessions, that way nobody gets hurt, the world would surely be a better place...
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/5/2010 Posts: 2,061 Location: Nairobi
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Mukiri wrote:maka wrote:quicksand wrote:Are we not equal, men and women?
I support this and I am unapologetic about it. If there is anything that turns my blood cold its the thought of being turned out to the street after a split in middle age, with your house and investments which you have worked so hard for during your youth handed to your ex-wife. I am not hitched currently, and have a few coins here and there - earned by back breaking effort, blood and sweat; parliament is right to say that whoever I marry keeps hers paws of the stuff I acquired prior- or even those I acquired after out of my own resourcefulness and capital if she didn't put in hard and countable currency.
Hakuna kucheka na watu. Men are bad but so are women. The pragmatist in me tells me that when I marry, there is also a probability of the union failing. What follows from that is cold, hard logic - and the logic is a man can't afford to build his life from scratch over again if he splits from his wife. Some of a man's assets need to be untouchable (for those who are about to tell me about love and its all conquering ways and my own flawed attitude, save your breath - people cant be fully trusted, and that is only constant worth trusting completely these days)
Read European papers. Men over there get cleaned out by gold-digging and scheming wives, especially Britain, where family courts usually strip guys bare leaving them destitute and depressed.
I have no qualms about property that was co-acquired (both names on the deed) being split up. But stuff registered in just one person's name should be theirs. It is up to women to be alert and ensure that their spouses do not con them. When they hand over money to the husband, they should demand to be cosignors in the business/property arrangement. Away with this silly ambiguity that 'husbands make wealth because women are making a stable home' Will it be a marriage or a business agreement?  Some men should (unapologetically) be married to their property. Does the bill consider her invaluable contributions, when she cuts short her sleep to make you breakfast, hustles with the kids(punishes her body to get your kids in the first place), cleans your house, comforts you in grief, encourages you, sh@gs you when not in the mood etc Id happily give my property to my wife and start from scratch. All these material things are straws. Shackles that bind us. And when we die we leave them papa hapa. I respect your view @Mukiri, and it is a valid one. Consider this, if a woman does all the things you have mentioned for a man, then he would be stupid to end the marriage with her, cheat on her. Granted, men break good marriages all the time and it is not fair to women. But interestingly, some immoral women are duping men, pretending at first to be ideal partners during courtship then turning into the devil before the ink is dry on the certificate. All those nice attributes you have mentioned disappear into thin air as the naive man is left with a whoring, drunk-as-a-sailor, spendthrift of a wife. I wear no goggles, I see them at work, they willingly provide easy amusement for boys both single and married who are just out to have some fun. On occassion they make the moves first. It is scary out there. I have seen irate husbands show up at pubs at 3 to drag their drunken wives out. Married but available. It is as real as the air you breathe. I guess men are getting their comeuppance. We rarely see men as victims because men shut up and suffer in silence. In these days though, women are increasingly hurting men. The days of meek housewives are over. Women are getting more educated than men, earn more than men, and do not wait on you as if you are the shah of persia when you are at home. You may choose to live your life trusting, not seeing or hearing. I choose to have my eyes fully open.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,328 Location: Masada
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maka wrote:quicksand wrote:Are we not equal, men and women?
I support this and I am unapologetic about it. If there is anything that turns my blood cold its the thought of being turned out to the street after a split in middle age, with your house and investments which you have worked so hard for during your youth handed to your ex-wife. I am not hitched currently, and have a few coins here and there - earned by back breaking effort, blood and sweat; parliament is right to say that whoever I marry keeps hers paws of the stuff I acquired prior- or even those I acquired after out of my own resourcefulness and capital if she didn't put in hard and countable currency.
Hakuna kucheka na watu. Men are bad but so are women. The pragmatist in me tells me that when I marry, there is also a probability of the union failing. What follows from that is cold, hard logic - and the logic is a man can't afford to build his life from scratch over again if he splits from his wife. Some of a man's assets need to be untouchable (for those who are about to tell me about love and its all conquering ways and my own flawed attitude, save your breath - people cant be fully trusted, and that is only constant worth trusting completely these days)
Read European papers. Men over there get cleaned out by gold-digging and scheming wives, especially Britain, where family courts usually strip guys bare leaving them destitute and depressed.
I have no qualms about property that was co-acquired (both names on the deed) being split up. But stuff registered in just one person's name should be theirs. It is up to women to be alert and ensure that their spouses do not con them. When they hand over money to the husband, they should demand to be cosignors in the business/property arrangement. Away with this silly ambiguity that 'husbands make wealth because women are making a stable home' Will it be a marriage or a business agreement? Marriage is a contract. Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,328 Location: Masada
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2012 Posts: 5,222
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quicksand wrote:Mukiri wrote:maka wrote:quicksand wrote:Are we not equal, men and women?
I support this and I am unapologetic about it. If there is anything that turns my blood cold its the thought of being turned out to the street after a split in middle age, with your house and investments which you have worked so hard for during your youth handed to your ex-wife. I am not hitched currently, and have a few coins here and there - earned by back breaking effort, blood and sweat; parliament is right to say that whoever I marry keeps hers paws of the stuff I acquired prior- or even those I acquired after out of my own resourcefulness and capital if she didn't put in hard and countable currency.
Hakuna kucheka na watu. Men are bad but so are women. The pragmatist in me tells me that when I marry, there is also a probability of the union failing. What follows from that is cold, hard logic - and the logic is a man can't afford to build his life from scratch over again if he splits from his wife. Some of a man's assets need to be untouchable (for those who are about to tell me about love and its all conquering ways and my own flawed attitude, save your breath - people cant be fully trusted, and that is only constant worth trusting completely these days)
Read European papers. Men over there get cleaned out by gold-digging and scheming wives, especially Britain, where family courts usually strip guys bare leaving them destitute and depressed.
I have no qualms about property that was co-acquired (both names on the deed) being split up. But stuff registered in just one person's name should be theirs. It is up to women to be alert and ensure that their spouses do not con them. When they hand over money to the husband, they should demand to be cosignors in the business/property arrangement. Away with this silly ambiguity that 'husbands make wealth because women are making a stable home' Will it be a marriage or a business agreement? Some men should (unapologetically) be married to their property. Does the bill consider her invaluable contributions, when she cuts short her sleep to make you breakfast, hustles with the kids(punishes her body to get your kids in the first place), cleans your house, comforts you in grief, encourages you, sh@gs you when not in the mood etc Id happily give my property to my wife and start from scratch. All these material things are straws. Shackles that bind us. And when we die we leave them papa hapa. I respect your view @Mukiri, and it is a valid one. Consider this, if a woman does all the things you have mentioned for a man, then he would be stupid to end the marriage with her, cheat on her. Granted, men break good marriages all the time and it is not fair to women. But interestingly, some immoral women are duping men, pretending at first to be ideal partners during courtship then turning into the devil before the ink is dry on the certificate. All those nice attributes you have mentioned disappear into thin air as the naive man is left with a whoring, drunk-as-a-sailor, spendthrift of a wife. I wear no goggles, I see them at work, they willingly provide easy amusement for boys both single and married who are just out to have some fun. On occassion they make the moves first. It is scary out there. I have seen irate husbands show up at pubs at 3 to drag their drunken wives out. Married but available. It is as real as the air you breathe. I guess men are getting their comeuppance. We rarely see men as victims because men shut up and suffer in silence. In these days though, women are increasingly hurting men. The days of meek housewives are over. Women are getting more educated than men, earn more than men, and do not wait on you as if you are the shah of persia when you are at home. You may choose to live your life trusting, not seeing or hearing. I choose to have my eyes fully open. Kijana, marry first then come we talk. Marry with help from God, not your own understanding. Remember God has not given us a spirit of fear but ..... While you cower in fear, desperately clinging to your earthly goodies alot of us are Worshiping God in bliss with our wives. It is also said that some people are so poor, all they have is money. #tafakarihayo
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Rank: Member Joined: 3/14/2012 Posts: 577 Location: Nairobi Kenya
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Am glad parliament put some sanity into this bill.This maneno of splitting wealth half-way is total BS. If i love my wife even after the marriage I will very freely give her half and continue to look after my children.BUT when the law stipulates it then some cheeky young ladies who want to prey on men will take advantage of this.What I worked for is mine, what we acquired together is ours! As for the argument of taking care of the home and children, please, as if men also don't pay bills and educate the children. That whole argument doesn't hold any water!! Before I die - i will touch the sky!!
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/20/2009 Posts: 658
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Mukiri wrote:quicksand wrote:Mukiri wrote:maka wrote:quicksand wrote:Are we not equal, men and women?
I support this and I am unapologetic about it. If there is anything that turns my blood cold its the thought of being turned out to the street after a split in middle age, with your house and investments which you have worked so hard for during your youth handed to your ex-wife. I am not hitched currently, and have a few coins here and there - earned by back breaking effort, blood and sweat; parliament is right to say that whoever I marry keeps hers paws of the stuff I acquired prior- or even those I acquired after out of my own resourcefulness and capital if she didn't put in hard and countable currency.
Hakuna kucheka na watu. Men are bad but so are women. The pragmatist in me tells me that when I marry, there is also a probability of the union failing. What follows from that is cold, hard logic - and the logic is a man can't afford to build his life from scratch over again if he splits from his wife. Some of a man's assets need to be untouchable (for those who are about to tell me about love and its all conquering ways and my own flawed attitude, save your breath - people cant be fully trusted, and that is only constant worth trusting completely these days)
Read European papers. Men over there get cleaned out by gold-digging and scheming wives, especially Britain, where family courts usually strip guys bare leaving them destitute and depressed.
I have no qualms about property that was co-acquired (both names on the deed) being split up. But stuff registered in just one person's name should be theirs. It is up to women to be alert and ensure that their spouses do not con them. When they hand over money to the husband, they should demand to be cosignors in the business/property arrangement. Away with this silly ambiguity that 'husbands make wealth because women are making a stable home' Will it be a marriage or a business agreement? Some men should (unapologetically) be married to their property. Does the bill consider her invaluable contributions, when she cuts short her sleep to make you breakfast, hustles with the kids(punishes her body to get your kids in the first place), cleans your house, comforts you in grief, encourages you, sh@gs you when not in the mood etc Id happily give my property to my wife and start from scratch. All these material things are straws. Shackles that bind us. And when we die we leave them papa hapa. I respect your view @Mukiri, and it is a valid one. Consider this, if a woman does all the things you have mentioned for a man, then he would be stupid to end the marriage with her, cheat on her. Granted, men break good marriages all the time and it is not fair to women. But interestingly, some immoral women are duping men, pretending at first to be ideal partners during courtship then turning into the devil before the ink is dry on the certificate. All those nice attributes you have mentioned disappear into thin air as the naive man is left with a whoring, drunk-as-a-sailor, spendthrift of a wife. I wear no goggles, I see them at work, they willingly provide easy amusement for boys both single and married who are just out to have some fun. On occassion they make the moves first. It is scary out there. I have seen irate husbands show up at pubs at 3 to drag their drunken wives out. Married but available. It is as real as the air you breathe. I guess men are getting their comeuppance. We rarely see men as victims because men shut up and suffer in silence. In these days though, women are increasingly hurting men. The days of meek housewives are over. Women are getting more educated than men, earn more than men, and do not wait on you as if you are the shah of persia when you are at home. You may choose to live your life trusting, not seeing or hearing. I choose to have my eyes fully open. Kijana, marry first then come we talk. Marry with help from God, not your own understanding. Remember God has not given us a spirit of fear but ..... While you cower in fear, desperately clinging to your earthly goodies alot of us are Worshiping God in bliss with our wives. It is also said that some people are so poor, all they have is money. #tafakarihayo @ pastor mukiri My experience is, for a family to be cohesive money plays at least 90% role. The chorus about love and money have long been overtaken by materialistic generation. By the way why are you pastors very busy fleecing the congregation if you do not love money???? On a light note why would a wife be scared of this bill if she is in genuine relationship with the husband??? What I am very sure of is if a wife does not leta mdomo mrefu and kichwa kubwa to the husband, the husband will give all they have to her. Period. Hii mambo ingine ati kulea watoto, kupikia bwana, kuoshea bwana nguo are unnecessary sympathy-drawing side shows.
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 7/9/2010 Posts: 39
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/17/2010 Posts: 572
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Impunity wrote:maka wrote:quicksand wrote:Are we not equal, men and women?
I support this and I am unapologetic about it. If there is anything that turns my blood cold its the thought of being turned out to the street after a split in middle age, with your house and investments which you have worked so hard for during your youth handed to your ex-wife. I am not hitched currently, and have a few coins here and there - earned by back breaking effort, blood and sweat; parliament is right to say that whoever I marry keeps hers paws of the stuff I acquired prior- or even those I acquired after out of my own resourcefulness and capital if she didn't put in hard and countable currency.
Hakuna kucheka na watu. Men are bad but so are women. The pragmatist in me tells me that when I marry, there is also a probability of the union failing. What follows from that is cold, hard logic - and the logic is a man can't afford to build his life from scratch over again if he splits from his wife. Some of a man's assets need to be untouchable (for those who are about to tell me about love and its all conquering ways and my own flawed attitude, save your breath - people cant be fully trusted, and that is only constant worth trusting completely these days)
Read European papers. Men over there get cleaned out by gold-digging and scheming wives, especially Britain, where family courts usually strip guys bare leaving them destitute and depressed.
I have no qualms about property that was co-acquired (both names on the deed) being split up. But stuff registered in just one person's name should be theirs. It is up to women to be alert and ensure that their spouses do not con them. When they hand over money to the husband, they should demand to be cosignors in the business/property arrangement. Away with this silly ambiguity that 'husbands make wealth because women are making a stable home' Will it be a marriage or a business agreement? Marriage is a contract. and there should be no 'mega riding' on the contract, paraphrasing a citizen tv opinion poll txter from last night.  'One headache for famous medieval holy people was that someone might murder you to acquire your body parts for the relics trade'
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/5/2010 Posts: 2,061 Location: Nairobi
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/8/2008 Posts: 1,575
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/2/2009 Posts: 2,458 Location: Nairobi
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That bill is perfectly fair..
I know women who have worked hard only for their men to sustain other mipango wa kandoz..
Kila mtu na jasho lake. If I acquired wealth before I met you. let mine be mine, we can share the profits and dividends and whatever else accrues from it pamoja. Same applies to you and what is yours.
equality does not mean getting what you did not work for at the stroke of a pen; either to join or annul a union
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/5/2010 Posts: 2,061 Location: Nairobi
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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If this bill becomes law our society and culture will take a most positive turn. I think it's enough to make Kenya a 'super country'.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/19/2008 Posts: 4,268
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My simple question is, there are many men who request their wives to stop working to take care of their children until a certain age. In the process, this wife does not have any income and any investments done therefore will not have her direct contribution. So what happens in that case.
There are men who, by bad luck, loose their employment and during that period, only their wives are the bread winners, during this period, this man is not in a position to contribute directly for any investments in the family, what happens in future if they split?
There are situations where, the man gets a good job out of the country. Requests the wife, for the sake of the family unity to leave employment and join him in the new work station, at this period, this partner has no income she can directly contribute for investment. what happens if they split later?
A wife is working in bank and hence entitled to a favourable mortgage rate. the couple decides that the woman takes up the mortgage while the man takes up all other duties at home - understandably, the woman would be left with barely nothing after deductions. Since the contract is between her and the employer, there is no evidence that the man contributed into the purchase of the "matrimonial" home, which would be in the wife's name. What happens in case they later split?
Jibu tunalo hatuna?
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Rank: Member Joined: 9/29/2010 Posts: 679 Location: nairobi
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Wendz wrote:My simple question is, there are many men who request their wives to stop working to take care of their children until a certain age. In the process, this wife does not have any income and any investments done therefore will not have her direct contribution. So what happens in that case.
There are men who, by bad luck, loose their employment and during that period, only their wives are the bread winners, during this period, this man is not in a position to contribute directly for any investments in the family, what happens in future if they split?
There are situations where, the man gets a good job out of the country. Requests the wife, for the sake of the family unity to leave employment and join him in the new work station, at this period, this partner has no income she can directly contribute for investment. what happens if they split later?
A wife is working in bank and hence entitled to a favourable mortgage rate. the couple decides that the woman takes up the mortgage while the man takes up all other duties at home - understandably, the woman would be left with barely nothing after deductions. Since the contract is between her and the employer, there is no evidence that the man contributed into the purchase of the "matrimonial" home, which would be in the wife's name. What happens in case they later split?
Jibu tunalo hatuna?
the sword cuts both ways, the media has made it seem like women alone would be affected, but as you point out many women own property so the issue of fairness is moot
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/19/2008 Posts: 4,268
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YoungMulla wrote:Am glad parliament put some sanity into this bill.This maneno of splitting wealth half-way is total BS.
If i love my wife even after the marriage I will very freely give her half and continue to look after my children.BUT when the law stipulates it then some cheeky young ladies who want to prey on men will take advantage of this.What I worked for is mine, what we acquired together is ours!
As for the argument of taking care of the home and children, please, as if men also don't pay bills and educate the children. That whole argument doesn't hold any water!! This makes perfect sense. What one acquired before marriage, unless he/she willingly wants to share, then it is theirs. what they acquire later, is for the two of them. However, what if you'd acquired a plot before marriage at Kshs 50k. After many years, you sell off the plot at Kshs1 million and use that to buy a property where you build your matrimonial home during marriage. is this "your"(individual) property or would it be deemed to have been acquired together given that the property was bought during the marriage? Lawyers have some work here. This thing is not black and white as we would love it to be.
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/19/2012 Posts: 552
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Wendz wrote:My simple question is, there are many men who request their wives to stop working to take care of their children until a certain age. In the process, this wife does not have any income and any investments done therefore will not have her direct contribution. So what happens in that case.
There are men who, by bad luck, loose their employment and during that period, only their wives are the bread winners, during this period, this man is not in a position to contribute directly for any investments in the family, what happens in future if they split?
There are situations where, the man gets a good job out of the country. Requests the wife, for the sake of the family unity to leave employment and join him in the new work station, at this period, this partner has no income she can directly contribute for investment. what happens if they split later?
A wife is working in bank and hence entitled to a favourable mortgage rate. the couple decides that the woman takes up the mortgage while the man takes up all other duties at home - understandably, the woman would be left with barely nothing after deductions. Since the contract is between her and the employer, there is no evidence that the man contributed into the purchase of the "matrimonial" home, which would be in the wife's name. What happens in case they later split?
Jibu tunalo hatuna?
 The obvious answer ni Jibu hatuna. When you decide to legislate on matrimonial issues you tend to cause more confusion than provide answers. Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around.... Leo Buscaglia
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/19/2008 Posts: 4,268
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kizee1 wrote:Wendz wrote:My simple question is, there are many men who request their wives to stop working to take care of their children until a certain age. In the process, this wife does not have any income and any investments done therefore will not have her direct contribution. So what happens in that case.
There are men who, by bad luck, loose their employment and during that period, only their wives are the bread winners, during this period, this man is not in a position to contribute directly for any investments in the family, what happens in future if they split?
There are situations where, the man gets a good job out of the country. Requests the wife, for the sake of the family unity to leave employment and join him in the new work station, at this period, this partner has no income she can directly contribute for investment. what happens if they split later?
A wife is working in bank and hence entitled to a favourable mortgage rate. the couple decides that the woman takes up the mortgage while the man takes up all other duties at home - understandably, the woman would be left with barely nothing after deductions. Since the contract is between her and the employer, there is no evidence that the man contributed into the purchase of the "matrimonial" home, which would be in the wife's name. What happens in case they later split?
Jibu tunalo hatuna?
the sword cuts both ways, the media has made it seem like women alone would be affected, but as you point out many women own property so the issue of fairness is moot That's the thing. people are just jumping up and down and these are the questions we need to be asking.... not getting all emotional about the whole thing. Anyone can own property and women these days are clinching well paying jobs and doing massive investments. Infact, if you ask many of these real estate sellers they'll tell you there are many many women buying these houses.... I think the point is to be objective and deal with real issues. If laws are to be passed which concern families, they need to be done by very sober people.... i don't know if our parliament is that sober. this is not a battle between men and women. it should be a battle to maintain the least disruption to the family as much as possible, before, during and even after the marriage. It shouldnt create a situation where one party takes advantage of the other. For example, we have as many Mbuguas these days as we have young gals ready to reap where they did not saw. May be what you owned before marriage is yours, 50/50 for property acquired DURING marriage if marriage lasts 10+ years.... less than that, you take home what you have invested in.... something like that.
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