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Land Speculation Remastered
a4architect.com
#61 Posted : Saturday, October 19, 2013 11:46:49 AM
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Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
@nabwire..good point. A country like Denmark has 10 times more GDP than Kenya. Denmark doesnt have any natural resources to explot and export. All this GDP is mostly attained through intelectual human production. This is coz its impossible for danes to speculate on land hence they are foreced to think outside the box to come up with goods for export.
This is what is needed for kenya. land commission should make it impossible for kenyans to invest in land so they will be forced to create industries etc to make more money hence higher GDP.

http://www.indexmundi.com/denmark/gdp_per_capita_(ppp).html

http://www.indexmundi.co...cts/kenya/gdp-per-capita
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
Nabwire
#62 Posted : Saturday, October 19, 2013 2:19:49 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/22/2011
Posts: 1,325
I agree, but before making it impossible to speculate on land, the government should make sure that financial systems are transparent and investors are protected by enforcing the rule of law. People put money in land because they do not trust the current system, if they were sure their money was safe, they would diversify out of real estate. I wonder what happened to the investors who had their money in that Brokerage firm that collapsed? Were they compensated? Why did the government allow the firm to exist in the first place? By the way how long were they in business before the collapse?
tinker
#63 Posted : Saturday, October 19, 2013 2:41:01 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/15/2010
Posts: 454
Location: Nairobi
murchr wrote:
Kalameni wrote:
the big question is when this bubble is going to burst ? is it any time soon or will population pressure,massive rural to urban migration sustain it for the next 17yrs till 2030 when our beloved nation becomes a middle income country.






When the real estate bubble bursted in the US it was because people took up loans that they weren't able to pay. How will this bubble burst in Kenya? Are people taking up loans or are they paying cash?


@Murchr. It is very hard to get a bank loan on land title nowadays since its a hard sell. of late they would rather enlist household items. Easily disposable assets like log book/going concern business are the thing now.
....He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion..
a4architect.com
#64 Posted : Saturday, October 19, 2013 2:42:27 PM
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Joined: 1/4/2010
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Location: nairobi
@nabwire..true. @njunge here is still trying to make headway into the stockbroker mess

http://wazua.co.ke/forum.aspx?g=posts&t=4394
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
Nabwire
#65 Posted : Saturday, October 19, 2013 2:59:06 PM
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Joined: 7/22/2011
Posts: 1,325
Murchr the bubble will burst when supply outstrips demand, that is when people no longer feel the need to live and work in Nairobi. If your sell price was 250 m an acre, then you start getting best offers of 150, 100, 75, that will be the indication that the bubble is bursting. How long before it bursts is the question, but there is no way that a price of 250m/acre is sustainable, even Beverly Hills is not that expensive!!
murchr
#66 Posted : Saturday, October 19, 2013 4:36:30 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Nabwire wrote:
Murchr the bubble will burst when supply outstrips demand, that is when people no longer feel the need to live and work in Nairobi. If your sell price was 250 m an acre, then you start getting best offers of 150, 100, 75, that will be the indication that the bubble is bursting. How long before it bursts is the question, but there is no way that a price of 250m/acre is sustainable, even Beverly Hills is not that expensive!!


There are so many other factors that will determine if the bubble will burst or not. What is constant is the land mass of Kenya, the other variables will keep changing. Inflation, population growth, and the constant demand for shelter and expansion of industry.

To me I compare Nairobi to Newyork where an apartment costs about $1 000 000 (+/-) A block sits on about 3/4 or 1 acre of land. Zoning will help stabilize prices (you know what i mean, create cities as you and I know it and have a population limit). The other thing Kenyans will first have to accept that they cant all own land as a right. Everyone should have a decent shelter but not land.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
Nabwire
#67 Posted : Saturday, October 19, 2013 4:46:53 PM
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Joined: 7/22/2011
Posts: 1,325
People can still own land, just not in Nairobi, I cant even imagine paying 250m for an acre and yet in Masaai land an acre goes for 500,000. Heri niende ushago, wacha Nairobi ikae. But for those who are lucky enough to own say 4 acres in Nairobi, I would sell 2 acres at these ridiculous prices and park that money in stocks, then hold the other two just incase the madness continues and prices keep inching up.
Nabwire
#68 Posted : Saturday, October 19, 2013 4:51:42 PM
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Joined: 7/22/2011
Posts: 1,325
[quote=a4architect.com]@nabwire..true. @njunge here is still trying to make headway into the stockbroker mess

http://wazua.co.ke/forum.aspx?g=posts&t=4394[/quote]


Oh my gosh, ati compensation of 50K? So the clients who had millions only got 50K? Sad Ama compensation is staggered depending on amount lost?
Penny-Stocker
#69 Posted : Saturday, October 19, 2013 4:52:02 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/31/2010
Posts: 154
Nairobi is way over priced. But again, if it's worth it to the buyer, then it's not over priced. My only question...where do people get these kinds of ca$h. 250M an acre....I doubt that!
“None but ourselves can free our minds.”
- Bob Marley
Lolest!
#70 Posted : Saturday, October 19, 2013 10:03:51 PM
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Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
are crazy prices a Nairobi Metropolitan problem only? I doubt. I bought land in a remote part of Nyandarua at 110k per acre in 2011. Today, the rate is 250k in that area.
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Fomoney
#71 Posted : Sunday, October 20, 2013 7:43:25 AM
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Joined: 7/9/2006
Posts: 79
Yes the pirate money and drug proceeds are a factor, as we've seen these people can come in and do what they want at will. You think they'll buy land in Mogandishu? Also as recent news shows, "Judiciary saga", there's lots of government money leaking out into the economy through corruption. All these things create a cascading effect with it's own inertia. Since prices are expected to go up, people are willing to pay increasingly higher prices. This will continue until people can't afford or burn their fingers. The end is not near as long as the conditions remain the same.Don't hold your breath, get what you can afford and what fits with your investment plan.
Tokyo
#72 Posted : Sunday, October 20, 2013 8:55:34 AM
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Joined: 10/9/2006
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Lolest! wrote:
are crazy prices a Nairobi Metropolitan problem only? I doubt. I bought land in a remote part of Nyandarua at 110k per acre in 2011. Today, the rate is 250k in that area.


Land prices rocketing everywhere. If you have extra cash; speculate.
2006 I bought several acres in Kisaju next to Namanga road @200,000. People then were talking about bubble bust just like how they are speculating now. You know how many millions per acre now?
work to prosper
jamplu
#73 Posted : Sunday, October 20, 2013 10:15:50 AM
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Joined: 3/25/2010
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Location: Nai
People are willing to pay any price so as to speculate. I know people who paid upto 16 million for 7.8acres in Konza because the land is just opposite the fence its kenyans who are driving the prices up not pirates. Assume konza kicks off and the govt enforces the 10km buffer zone and possibly buys the land they will still be compensated at not more than 300K an acre KAA/govt also wants a piece for an airport there they will definitely be buying at not more than 300K. Some of these guyz have been trying to dispose off land there but the land is still at 5-6M for the 7.8 acres its ok to speculate but lets be careful where our money is going
Am
#74 Posted : Sunday, October 20, 2013 10:48:45 AM
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Joined: 2/21/2012
Posts: 1,739
Tokyo wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
are crazy prices a Nairobi Metropolitan problem only? I doubt. I bought land in a remote part of Nyandarua at 110k per acre in 2011. Today, the rate is 250k in that area.


Land prices rocketing everywhere. If you have extra cash; speculate.
2006 I bought several acres in Kisaju next to Namanga road @200,000. People then were talking about bubble bust just like how they are speculating now. You know how many millions per acre now?


@Tokyo. Seems we share a MOTTO..

Reminds me of a close friend with whom we visited some place to buy a plot along the eastern bypass at UTAWALA. The place was a bush with several zebras and gazelles. He said a price of 320K was high for an undeveloped area. I got two plots then (2008/9) and recently my guy visited the place and got shocked the place is now fully built with few undeveloped plots. He expressed Interest to buy one of my plots and going rate now is 1.8M but for friendship I can offer him at 1.6M though honestly he has to beg me to sell. As someone has said, the Constant factor here is the Kenya land mass which remains the same. Population is increasing and rural urban migration is the order of the day. This Bubble thing will happen in 2050 if it ever does. Lets stop misleading pple.
Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God..
Lolest!
#75 Posted : Sunday, October 20, 2013 12:43:01 PM
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Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Am wrote:
As someone has said, the Constant factor here is the Kenya land mass which remains the same. Population is increasing and rural urban migration is the order of the day. This Bubble thing will happen in 2050 if it ever does. Lets stop misleading pple.

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
I also doubt there will be a bubble burst soon. Maybe a cooling off of the sector for as it is it's crazy na sio Nairobi pekee!

It is also true that rural-urban migration is very high. Mzee Jomo told Waafrika to go back to the rural areas but it seems this call eventually failed. People want to live in the cities, work in the cities, retire in the cities BUT get buried in the rural areas.

They still want to own(through inheritance) land in the shags though they don't farm it(for security for loans? for rental income?). Thus land is fragmenting further and agricultural production decreasing in some areas.

Culturally, we've changed too. In the past, the whole family would construct around their father's house. It was culturally accepted. Today, any young man who sticks with his father is frowned upon as lazy. The society tells that lad "Go rent and save and then buy a plot in Kamulu/by-pass/Kitengela..." thus you find these fellows whose shags is within 40kms from Nairobi joining the bandwagon that buys those Kisaju plots!

Is there a remedy? Maybe what @architect suggests could do. Tax capital gains heavily and let such funds go to county govts for infrastructure dvpt. But that will be fraught with challenges like corruption in administering it. But we should try.

Someone had suggested infrastructure. Great. Hope this reduces rural-urban migration. Rural folks see urbanites' liquidity and hasten to join them. Maybe if agriculture paid better more of us will stay in rural areas.

But there is the issue of increased funds. I don't think this is solely as a result of Piracy money but maybe Kenyans are just getting richer. With lenders becoming more welcoming to borrowers, the market can only get crazier as rel estate is the investment of choice for many. Is it an issue also of financial education?d'oh!

Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
nakujua
#76 Posted : Sunday, October 20, 2013 11:17:01 PM
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Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 3,583
Location: Kenya
I liken the land craze in nairobi to the mitumba sector, guys in stalls in nairobi select mitumba clothes for peanuts at gikomba and come sell the same at crazy amounts. Has the mitumba buble burst, no, will it, never - as long as we have the upcoming middle class who are so eager to keep up their images.
while a visit to the local markets will get you the same stuff at a fraction of the cost.

If you want decent land, get the money, be patient and visit the area you want to buy, sooner or later you will get an individual selling at the rightful price.
dunkang
#77 Posted : Monday, October 21, 2013 7:52:05 AM
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Joined: 6/2/2011
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Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
Okay, what happened in this city?
There is this controversial piece of land in Westland that was transfered as follows;
- 1962 for 125,000/-
- Sep 2002 for 1,000,000/-
- Dec 2009 for 130,000,000/-

So this land price grew 800% in 40 years (not even considering 1990-1994 goldenberg super inflation), then in 7 years, KABOOM, 13,000%. Kwani what big thing happened in Westland between 2002-2009 that wasn't happening between 1962-2002?

http://www.nation.co.ke/.../-/5w68vyz/-/index.html

Wajamaneni, Ngilu is at the lands office!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Lolest!
#78 Posted : Monday, October 21, 2013 12:08:56 PM
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@dunkang, the dilemma is where all this money comes from. Assuming most people's primary source of money is salary, wages aren't rising as fast!
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
a4architect.com
#79 Posted : Monday, October 21, 2013 2:30:03 PM
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Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
@nabwires concept could be true in that after collapse of stockbrokers eg nyaga et al with peoples deposits, other investment avenues were sought hence people flocking in to land.
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
murchr
#80 Posted : Monday, October 21, 2013 3:07:48 PM
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Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Lolest! wrote:
@dunkang, the dilemma is where all this money comes from. Assuming most people's primary source of money is salary, wages aren't rising as fast!


Well apart from the pirate money that we dont know how much it could be, there are Kenyans abroad willing and seeking to invest at home plus the oil play. If your buying westlands then you are competing with the likes of Mukesh Ambani, in June he got 10 prime plots, then Look at Lamu and Mombasa...do you think the English Point Marina is being built by that guy Kamau on the street?
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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