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AU Addis summit - ICC mass walk out?
Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/17/2009 Posts: 1,049
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Amores wrote:Lolest! wrote:masukuma wrote:McReggae wrote:masukuma wrote:[quote=McReggae]. . y  I totally agree I like how people like @MC want all of us to believe that what drives them is the quest for justice for victims and acting as though only Africans kills each other. For your information,killing ( your citizens or any other citizens- like what USA/NATO does in Iraq and Afghanistan, etc ) is not a preserve of Africans. This is why @ maka keeps asking us in which other countries people kill their citizens. I believe that African is asserting itself,and we do not need the West to police us- we really do not but we have been brain washed to believe that we do. Check out " the french african connection" on Aljazeera and you will see that these guys care less about those things they talk down on us about. And then decide to stop being brainwashed You might have a point on brainwashing. That aside, If the kind of atrocities that were committed in Kenya had happened in the countries you mention, I bet you the perpetrators would have been brought to justice promptly and swiftly right in those counttries. The point of departure is while down here the common guy is happy to dance naked for the King, over there those in leadership are constantly under real check Just as absolute power corrupts leaders, so does absolute fanaticism blind the people from logic
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Amores wrote:maka wrote:Lets pull out sina shida na hiyo @Amores Not so fast @ maka. People should have a sober debate.Did you check the link? LINK What I wonder, is whether the African is aware of his interests and how they relate to the rest of the world's.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/17/2009 Posts: 1,049
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tycho wrote:Amores wrote:maka wrote:Lets pull out sina shida na hiyo @Amores Not so fast @ maka. People should have a sober debate.Did you check the link? LINK What I wonder, is whether the African is aware of his interests and how they relate to the rest of the world's. The Al Jazeera article is about French intervention to rescue Mali from the shackles of Military Junta supported by Religious extremists! One wonders where AU was when France came to rescue a Country in Africa! What was AU's view on the rescue of Mali by France and what stand point do they take now! They fence sit with heads deep in sand, then when things get out of hand they shamelessly begin talking about West this, west that! AU ni kinyezi ya Kuku Just as absolute power corrupts leaders, so does absolute fanaticism blind the people from logic
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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In their quest to show the President that they are more loyal than Matsanga they have effectively labelled Uhuru Kenyatta thus Al Bashir = Uhuru Kenyatta All his protestations that he is innocent will never be heard except by his biggest sycophants. How can you be innocent and be afraid of facing witnesses you call fake, coached and a sham? Uhuru may not know this but he commanded a lot of respect when he said that he would face anyone as he is "innocent" BUT Thanks to Matsanga, this respect will forever be lost. Matsanga from being a friend of someone named Kony who Museveni took to the Hague for killing children and enslaving them, is now Uhuru Kenyatta's biggest supporter. Wow! He can blame Raila, Ocampo, Bensouda, ICC, or his enemies if he wishes, but if he's not brave enough to face his own tormentors, how can he be brave enough to face the tormentors of 40 million people. Let his lawyers do the talking.I believe they are very very good. Every step he takes to try and avoid going on trial as HE SAID, is a step towards AL BASHIR But Itsorait, we are sovereign and white people hate us though Matsanga takes his children to school in London..... I'm looking for my old kanu youth wingers jacket. It's been long since it had a wash. Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2010 Posts: 3,505 Location: Uganda
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cyberwingers ! tafadhali saidieni hapa : What will happen in the unlikely but possible event that 2007/ 2008madness recur?Africa (AU)will be there for us? Who remember what Alfred Mutua said when John Kufour from came AU to Kenya to try to mediate between Rao and kibaki in January 2008. Kenyans have a very short memory what will stop a ruthless cannibal african dictator from being a life president? think!!! Caramba wrote:Hats off to the AU for asserting Pan Africanism and resolving that no sitting head of state will ever stand accused in any court of law.
However, a friend who lost relatives during the 2007 PEV posed the following scenario :
Supposing one of the Westgate attackers we saw on cctv firing at innocent people slipped back into his country and ran for president in one of the breakaway Somalia republics and gets elected by popular vote.The guy then goes ahead to entrench a new constitution declaring him life president.
Now picture the guy turning up at the AU summit in Addis Ababa: 1) Will the AU roll out the red carpet for him when he turns up for the meeting? 2) Will our leaders, some of whom lost relatives at Westgate, receive him with hugs like they do to the likes of Al Bashir, Mugabe, Jammeh, etc? 3) Will the AU stick to it's resolution that no head of state can be tried in any court of law?
And the guy, with the help of brilliant lawyers like Khan and firebrands like Matsanga, can always convince the world that the cctv footage was doctored. punda amecheka
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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newfarer wrote:cyberwingers ! tafadhali saidieni hapa : What will happen in the unlikely but possible event that 2007/ 2008madness recur?Africa (AU)will be there for us? Who remember what Alfred Mutua said when John Kufour from came AU to Kenya to try to mediate between Rao and kibaki in January 2008. Kenyans have a very short memory Caramba wrote:Hats off to the AU for asserting Pan Africanism and resolving that no sitting head of state will ever stand accused in any court of law.
However, a friend who lost relatives during the 2007 PEV posed the following scenario :
Supposing one of the Westgate attackers we saw on cctv firing at innocent people slipped back into his country and ran for president in one of the breakaway Somalia republics and gets elected by popular vote.The guy then goes ahead to entrench a new constitution declaring him life president.
Now picture the guy turning up at the AU summit in Addis Ababa: 1) Will the AU roll out the red carpet for him when he turns up for the meeting? 2) Will our leaders, some of whom lost relatives at Westgate, receive him with hugs like they do to the likes of Al Bashir, Mugabe, Jammeh, etc? 3) Will the AU stick to it's resolution that no head of state can be tried in any court of law?
And the guy, with the help of brilliant lawyers like Khan and firebrands like Matsanga, can always convince the world that the cctv footage was doctored. This whether people want to hear it or not is the same exact position that Sheikh Aboud and Makaburi have about Al Shabab in Somali Their position is that the people of Somalia voted for Al Shabab and some crazy people from the west installed their own rulers on them. So they will use any means necessary, forget legal and moral, to get their views accross and make no apologies for it. For Makaburi its Islam for Kenya its sovereignty. It's amazing how two seemingly opposing camps have exactly the same method of thinking. Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/17/2009 Posts: 1,049
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The Standard story is even clearer. AU is a let down All talk and no action. At least Sudan is courageous enough to say that things werent that rosy in Addis. As for us, playing cagey as usual or what has Amb Amina said. Was the summit worth the trouble. http://www.standardmedia...inal-court&pageNo=1 Just as absolute power corrupts leaders, so does absolute fanaticism blind the people from logic
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/25/2011 Posts: 2,103 Location: Nrb
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Nandwa wrote:tycho wrote:Amores wrote:maka wrote:Lets pull out sina shida na hiyo @Amores Not so fast @ maka. People should have a sober debate.Did you check the link? LINK What I wonder, is whether the African is aware of his interests and how they relate to the rest of the world's. The Al Jazeera article is about French intervention to rescue Mali from the shackles of Military Junta supported by Religious extremists! Not only,you di dnot read the article I am happy
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/25/2011 Posts: 2,103 Location: Nrb
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Nandwa wrote:Amores wrote:Lolest! wrote:masukuma wrote:McReggae wrote:masukuma wrote:[quote=McReggae]. . y  I totally agree I like how people like @MC want all of us to believe that what drives them is the quest for justice for victims and acting as though only Africans kills each other. For your information,killing ( your citizens or any other citizens- like what USA/NATO does in Iraq and Afghanistan, etc ) is not a preserve of Africans. This is why @ maka keeps asking us in which other countries people kill their citizens. I believe that African is asserting itself,and we do not need the West to police us- we really do not but we have been brain washed to believe that we do. Check out " the french african connection" on Aljazeera and you will see that these guys care less about those things they talk down on us about. And then decide to stop being brainwashed You might have a point on brainwashing. That aside, If the kind of atrocities that were committed in Kenya had happened in the countries you mention, I bet you the perpetrators would have been brought to justice promptly and swiftly right in those counttries. The point of departure is while down here the common guy is happy to dance naked for the King, over there those in leadership are constantly under real check And this is what makes you think that we need the "good guys" to tell us what to do? There is always a first,and Africa needs to wake up and show these guys "two middle ones" by saying no to neo-colonialism. I am not talking about atrocities in Kenya,I am asking how we can vehemently worship and defend same people / powers and colaitions which commit atrocities on foreign soil in the name of liberation BS;then they turn around and lecture us about human rights,rule of law and all that hogwash,which they arent practicing- while we watch in awe and clap with glee and naivety believing that we are indeed being rescued. I am happy
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Perhaps, we should have a set of facts to be remembering every time we're discussing this.
A harassed President is bad for us, just as 'power struggles' can make our country unstable. We don't want that.
We chose a President. That also implies a duty to protect him. It doesn't matter how bad one can feel about it.
The ICC is more politically inclined to the Americans and Europeans. It runs on their ideas and ideals. But we don't relate as they do, mainly because of how our economies are structured and run; and because of heritage and unique political and social reality. Like, if the the 'suspects' are found guilty and the ICC bites hard, would justice be served?
Would such a verdict ensure peace, and freedom, and happiness? It all depends on how close we feel to our kinsmen. Or whether we have kinsmen at all. And you know what this means for us Africans. And how politics are run.
The ICC needs to have penalties that measure up to the different cultures of her members, since it must believe each culture and tradition to be valid, and positive. Otherwise, it may fail to capture the essence of the crimes, and may not communicate Justice effectively to the people affected, or may meet resistance as at present. Let's remember that this resistance itself has compromised the Justice system itself.
While the President may be facing charges at the ICC, and being on the defensive, he needs to lead in continuing the healing of our nation. How he'll do that is a pretty complex puzzle but it's doable.
These times are tricky for all of us. Let's tread with care.
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