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Abdul Haji
Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/1/2009 Posts: 1,883
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seppuku wrote:mkenyan wrote:Amores wrote:Zenge wrote:Question: How many of you would walk into heavy gunfire to rescue your own brother, whether you have a pistol or not??? How many of you would stretch out their hand and ask a small kid to run to them for safety in the midst of freshly shot dead bodies??? How many?? Please tell? This was the mission of every person sent into the mall-to save the people- RECCE,KDF,etc. And they did not have their brothers in their. Again,I am not discrediting what this man has don,but we need to hail everyone who did not chiken out of going into that building and came out alive or dead. You know,we will never get to hear the stories of the soldiers who died,those who braved the sniper and and how they died.Will we? it does not belittle what abdul haji did but i agree with you. putting your live on the line for your country (strangers) and knowing full well that the people you do it for would mostly likely never know is one of the highest form of heroism. and our soldiers do it all the time - risking their lives and dying for us and at the behest of at times clueless if not conflicted leaders, and we never get to even know it. Without taking anything away from our security forces, let it be acknowledged that for them it is a job. Many do it gallantly, but it is not inconceivable that there are some who given a choice would rather not confront danger. Abdul had a choice. But even after he knew his brother was out of danger, he stayed on. I think that is an important difference. they can always desert in the face of danger. also from what i have been told joining the sf/rangers of kdf is a voluntary and those joining know exactly what they are getting into. abdul sure had a choice and made a heroic one, despite the love for brother obviously being stronger than the chains of duty. no one is denying that.
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/1/2009 Posts: 846
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Amores wrote:Zenge wrote:Question: How many of you would walk into heavy gunfire to rescue your own brother, whether you have a pistol or not??? How many of you would stretch out their hand and ask a small kid to run to them for safety in the midst of freshly shot dead bodies??? How many?? Please tell? This was the mission of every person sent into the mall-to save the people- RECCE,KDF,etc. And they did not have their brothers in there-it was their call of duty. Again,I am not discrediting what this man has don,but we need to hail everyone who did not chiken out of going into that building and came out alive or dead. You know,we will never get to hear the stories of the soldiers who died,those who braved the sniper and and how they died.Will we? @Amores, honestly some things cannot be equated. At what time did Haji and the other four men go into Westgate? and at what time did the KDF, Recce, etc go in? How many people did Haji and his four friends save and how many did the people who are actually paid to protect them save? I have a feeling its hard for you to give credit where its due.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/25/2011 Posts: 2,103 Location: Nrb
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CLK wrote:Amores wrote:Zenge wrote:Question: How many of you would walk into heavy gunfire to rescue your own brother, whether you have a pistol or not??? How many of you would stretch out their hand and ask a small kid to run to them for safety in the midst of freshly shot dead bodies??? How many?? Please tell? This was the mission of every person sent into the mall-to save the people- RECCE,KDF,etc. And they did not have their brothers in there-it was their call of duty. Again,I am not discrediting what this man has don,but we need to hail everyone who did not chiken out of going into that building and came out alive or dead. You know,we will never get to hear the stories of the soldiers who died,those who braved the sniper and and how they died.Will we? @Amores, honestly some things cannot be equated. At what time did Haji and the other four men go into Westgate? and at what time did the KDF, Recce, etc go in? How many people did Haji and his four friends save and how many did the people who are actually paid to protect them save? I have a feeling its hard for you to give credit where its due. @ CLK,please stop personalising this. Ati it is hard for me to give credit? Really? Do you know me? I am just expressing what i think,so no need to go all out,completely ignoring my side of arguement,just because i am not very quick to jump into the band wagon to glorify one man at the expense of others-have given an example of a Briton who was not all in the camera and saved over 100 people- That is a hero too. I have given an example of the man who was taken a picture,with a kid sitting on the AK47,that is a hero too! What do you mean by somethings cannot be equated? Anyway,last i engaged you in a discussion,you insulted me,so I think i know you for being trivial and personalising stuff,so tukome hapo sasa. I am happy
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/11/2010 Posts: 918
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Amores wrote:CLK wrote:Amores wrote:Zenge wrote:Question: How many of you would walk into heavy gunfire to rescue your own brother, whether you have a pistol or not??? How many of you would stretch out their hand and ask a small kid to run to them for safety in the midst of freshly shot dead bodies??? How many?? Please tell? This was the mission of every person sent into the mall-to save the people- RECCE,KDF,etc. And they did not have their brothers in there-it was their call of duty. Again,I am not discrediting what this man has don,but we need to hail everyone who did not chiken out of going into that building and came out alive or dead. You know,we will never get to hear the stories of the soldiers who died,those who braved the sniper and and how they died.Will we? @Amores, honestly some things cannot be equated. At what time did Haji and the other four men go into Westgate? and at what time did the KDF, Recce, etc go in? How many people did Haji and his four friends save and how many did the people who are actually paid to protect them save? I have a feeling its hard for you to give credit where its due. @ CLK,please stop personalising this. Ati it is hard for me to give credit? Really? Do you know me? I am just expressing what i think,so no need to go all out,completely ignoring my side of arguement,just because i am not very quick to jump into the band wagon to glorify one man at the expanse of others,and i have given an example of a britonwho was not all in the camera an saved over 100 people- That is a hero too. I have given an example of the man who was taken a picture,with a kid sitting on the AK47,that is a hero too! What do you mean by something cannot be equated? Anyway,last i engaged you in a discussion,you insulted me,so I think i know you for being trivial and personalising stuff,so tukome hapo sasa. @Amores, with all due respect I think you need to stop playing the prefect around here. I duly acknowledged the contribution of the other "faceless" heroes you have been moralizing about right in my second post. It's rather presumptuous of you to keep lecturing us about how we should not "glorify one man". There is a reason this thread is about Abdul and if you have read my posts here I have made those reasons clear. Abdul was the first to acknowledge the other men with whom he confronted the enemy. Those too are heroes. Nobody is denying that. Why are you trying to make everyone that unreservedly salutes this man appear unreasonable? Learn first to treat your time as you would your money, then treat your money as you do your time.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/2/2009 Posts: 2,458 Location: Nairobi
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mkenyan wrote:seppuku wrote:mkenyan wrote:Amores wrote:Zenge wrote:Question: How many of you would walk into heavy gunfire to rescue your own brother, whether you have a pistol or not??? How many of you would stretch out their hand and ask a small kid to run to them for safety in the midst of freshly shot dead bodies??? How many?? Please tell? This was the mission of every person sent into the mall-to save the people- RECCE,KDF,etc. And they did not have their brothers in their. Again,I am not discrediting what this man has don,but we need to hail everyone who did not chiken out of going into that building and came out alive or dead. You know,we will never get to hear the stories of the soldiers who died,those who braved the sniper and and how they died.Will we? it does not belittle what abdul haji did but i agree with you. putting your live on the line for your country (strangers) and knowing full well that the people you do it for would mostly likely never know is one of the highest form of heroism. and our soldiers do it all the time - risking their lives and dying for us and at the behest of at times clueless if not conflicted leaders, and we never get to even know it. Without taking anything away from our security forces, let it be acknowledged that for them it is a job. Many do it gallantly, but it is not inconceivable that there are some who given a choice would rather not confront danger. Abdul had a choice. But even after he knew his brother was out of danger, he stayed on. I think that is an important difference. they can always desert in the face of danger. also from what i have been told joining the sf/rangers of kdf is a voluntary and those joining know exactly what they are getting into. abdul sure had a choice and made a heroic one, despite the love for brother obviously being stronger than the chains of duty. no one is denying that. Abdul should be the Westgate poster boy.. KDF soldiers, SF and recce know what they signed up to. The rest of us know what we didn't sign up to and why. To me if we had lost 6 KDF, SF or recce and freed all/most hostages (and taken in the alshabaab bastards alive) i would have been having less nightmares..
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/25/2011 Posts: 2,103 Location: Nrb
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Ok,Seppuku,I think you are the one acting prefect and feeling you need to defend your thread. .I do not see the need to argue about or insult people about an event which left the country wounded,including losing men in line of duty. Peace. I bow out I am happy
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/11/2010 Posts: 918
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Amores wrote:Ok,Seppuku,I think you are the one acting prefect and feeling you need to defend you thread. .I do not see the need to argue about or insult people about an event which left the country wounded,including losing men in line of duty.
Peace. I bow out Peace, my fellow countryman. Learn first to treat your time as you would your money, then treat your money as you do your time.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/25/2011 Posts: 2,103 Location: Nrb
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seppuku wrote:Amores wrote:Ok,Seppuku,I think you are the one acting prefect and feeling you need to defend you thread. .I do not see the need to argue about or insult people about an event which left the country wounded,including losing men in line of duty.
Peace. I bow out Peace, my fellow countryman. Peace And when Abdul Haji will recieve his "order of the warrior" award,I will be among those cheering him on! I am happy
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,910
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The brother is just fine and cool. very inteligent from his answers. @mwende i feel you and am with you In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/27/2010 Posts: 951 Location: Nyumbani
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tassia wrote:I posted in another thread that Mohammed Ali of KTN did a very grave injustice to this country by the way he exposed Abdul Haji's brother who is an undercover NSI officer. If you watched that documentary, you will notice that there was an intention to paint the officer in bad light to Muslims in general. If you did not see the whole documentary (the kiswahili one aired by Mohammed) please see it first) The moment I saw it, I just knew that he has just made one of our key officers stop his work at NSI.
I was not surprised to learn from yesterday's interview that since then, the family has been living in fear. In any case, Abdul Haji and family had already been exposed by Mohammed Ali, and theirfore had nothing more to hide. I would not be surprised if The Haji's and Mohammed Ali come from different clans and that Mohammed Ali has bones to pick with them. The KTN editorial department should not have allowed the officer to be exposed in such a malicious way.
Is Mohammed an agent of the terrorists trying to scare off officers from NSI, or just plain journalism incompetence? Who has a link on this Jicho pevu i tried checking on KTN and i only found the Garissa thing among others and not this one
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/21/2012 Posts: 1,739
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seppuku wrote:Amores wrote:CLK wrote:Amores wrote:Zenge wrote:Question: How many of you would walk into heavy gunfire to rescue your own brother, whether you have a pistol or not??? How many of you would stretch out their hand and ask a small kid to run to them for safety in the midst of freshly shot dead bodies??? How many?? Please tell? This was the mission of every person sent into the mall-to save the people- RECCE,KDF,etc. And they did not have their brothers in there-it was their call of duty. Again,I am not discrediting what this man has don,but we need to hail everyone who did not chiken out of going into that building and came out alive or dead. You know,we will never get to hear the stories of the soldiers who died,those who braved the sniper and and how they died.Will we? @Amores, honestly some things cannot be equated. At what time did Haji and the other four men go into Westgate? and at what time did the KDF, Recce, etc go in? How many people did Haji and his four friends save and how many did the people who are actually paid to protect them save? I have a feeling its hard for you to give credit where its due. @ CLK,please stop personalising this. Ati it is hard for me to give credit? Really? Do you know me? I am just expressing what i think,so no need to go all out,completely ignoring my side of arguement,just because i am not very quick to jump into the band wagon to glorify one man at the expanse of others,and i have given an example of a britonwho was not all in the camera an saved over 100 people- That is a hero too. I have given an example of the man who was taken a picture,with a kid sitting on the AK47,that is a hero too! What do you mean by something cannot be equated? Anyway,last i engaged you in a discussion,you insulted me,so I think i know you for being trivial and personalising stuff,so tukome hapo sasa. @Amores, with all due respect I think you need to stop playing the prefect around here. I duly acknowledged the contribution of the other "faceless" heroes you have been moralizing about right in my second post. It's rather presumptuous of you to keep lecturing us about how we should not "glorify one man". There is a reason this thread is about Abdul and if you have read my posts here I have made those reasons clear. Abdul was the first to acknowledge the other men with whom he confronted the enemy. Those too are heroes. Nobody is denying that. Why are you trying to make everyone that unreservedly salutes this man appear unreasonable? @Amores=@Marende Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God..
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/21/2013 Posts: 2,841 Location: Here
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mkeiyd wrote:Zenge wrote:Question: How many of you would walk into heavy gunfire to rescue your own brother, whether you have a pistol or not??? How many of you would stretch out their hand and ask a small kid to run to them for safety in the midst of freshly shot dead bodies??? How many?? Please tell? What is your point? I thought we are talking about heroes here. People who did what your question is seeking. Ama keyboard ikiwa mbele yako lazima ufinye finye?  Life is like playing a violin solo in public and learning the instrument as one goes on.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/25/2011 Posts: 2,103 Location: Nrb
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Am wrote:
@Amores=@Marende
Mbona hii inakaa kama compliment ? hahahahaha I am happy
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/21/2012 Posts: 1,739
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Amores wrote:Am wrote:
@Amores=@Marende
Mbona hii inakaa kama compliment ? hahahahaha Coz its Friday. You're Probably high.. Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God..
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/25/2011 Posts: 2,103 Location: Nrb
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Am wrote:Amores wrote:Am wrote:
@Amores=@Marende
Mbona hii inakaa kama compliment ? hahahahaha Coz its Friday. You're Probably high.. No @ Am,i am not a person of the bottle- sorry. I am happy
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Rank: Chief Joined: 5/9/2007 Posts: 13,095
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Rankaz13 wrote:mkeiyd wrote:Zenge wrote:Question: How many of you would walk into heavy gunfire to rescue your own brother, whether you have a pistol or not??? How many of you would stretch out their hand and ask a small kid to run to them for safety in the midst of freshly shot dead bodies??? How many?? Please tell? What is your point? I thought we are talking about heroes here. People who did what your question is seeking. Ama keyboard ikiwa mbele yako lazima ufinye finye?
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