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Attack at Westgate
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vinii
#1481 Posted : Wednesday, September 25, 2013 9:05:41 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/14/2009
Posts: 2,057
alma wrote:
I'm glad Kenyans are at last asking hard questions. Every time these so called leaders make mistakes, we are told to be patriotic and support the troops.

We support and praise each and every human being cop, soldier, plain citizen who was in that mall saving lives.

But if there were mistakes they must be pointed out especially if those mistakes came from higher ups who should know better.

I remember being asked, why is your country deploying the millitary in the streets? That is a question that needs to be answered.

Is someone in the decision making arms of government saying that the Kenya police and recce squad is incompetent? Or was this the usual politics where someone started blaming others for the calamity even before the issue was resolved.

Poundfoolish though seeming to be tough, may have a point that needs to be looked at. Every theory must be looked at if we are to do this better if there is a next time. It may save the lives of our galant cops and soldiers on a crime scene.

we mentioned it here, it was wrong to bring in KDF . Close combat is not their game ..we lost six soldiers, I'm not sure how many hostages they rescued..A revamped recce company is the way to go ..
If you are an eagle don't hang around with chickens; chickens don't fly....
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TAZ
#1482 Posted : Wednesday, September 25, 2013 9:07:16 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/14/2007
Posts: 4,152
@ Poundfoolish.....From the videos and photos we've seen so far its quite clear that the people rescued by Police were not necessarily being held captive by the terrorists. Some of the terrorists probably escaped at that time. Most of them were hiding inside in the lower floors of Westgate and only came out when they realized it was safe to do so. By Saturday evening the Police/Recce Squad had not moved to the upper floors (3rd & 4th floor) where the terrorists were said to be "hiding". Unconfirmed reports indicate that the terrorists might have been tenants at Westgate so i believe they knew their way around the mall, i'm not convinced they were "cornered" as the police wanted us to believe besides they were said to be in a room with bullet proof glasses....how did they figure that out in the middle of a shoot-out. Its was also being reported that they had explosives so i'm really eager to know how the regular police and the Recce squad were planning on dealing with that threat.

It was also being reported that Police Officers (Uniformed and Plain) almost killed each other huko ndani.....

Here's a statement from one of the survivors

"The police officers were armed, they had bullet proof vests, so we [asked them to]... come with us to the top floor and bring these people down. They didn't help us, so we decided to go up there again by ourselves."
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  | | Edit by user: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 9:40 AM | Reason: Not specified
McReggae
#1483 Posted : Wednesday, September 25, 2013 9:18:14 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
Am wrote:
Amores wrote:
simonkabz wrote:
poundfoolish wrote:
Truth be told.. The military messed this thing up

We have seen photos of ground floor being cleared.. movie goers from the 3rd floor being rescued and at some point we were told the terrorists were cornered in a section of the building (by RECCE squad)...
then today three floors collapsed..
When did we lapse from controlling floors to only one floor.. to collapsing floors.

I personally believe the regular police from Gigiri were keeping the thugs busy.. then the flying squad rescued most people
After that the RECCE force with help from Israelis and British cornered the thugs..

This thing would have been finished by 3pm on Saturday.
We would like to know how it turned into a military spectacle for 4 days.. Why did we allow the military to take over what RECCE was doing well? why did we give them time to bobby trap the place and kill the hostages...?
5 teenagers managed to fell 6 army officers..
SHAME!!!


Best wazuans ignore your post from the first to the last word. Ignorance should never be tolerated.

I think you guys have forgotten that this is the person who supported @kiash with his onslaught on kenya. So do not expect @ poundfoolich to say anything constructive here.It is like expecting @Kiash to come here and say how we have demonstrated anything positive in the last 4 days

Haiya @Kiash


Rock hard Concrete Goggles. Him and McReggae will always see things from a single angle.


That is the problem when you guys now wanna analyze this in defence of the garment when even a layman out there got his questions, let me ask; in the @kiash thread was I with @poundfoolish? In the run up to the elections when he was supporting Jubilee, was I with him.....do you the next attack (God forbid) to be handeled the same way this was handled? We must ask ourselves hard questions!!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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  | | Edit by user: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 9:21 AM | Reason: Not specified
ZZE123
#1484 Posted : Wednesday, September 25, 2013 9:20:36 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/21/2008
Posts: 2,490
"Three floors collapsed" – Does this mean the building is downd'oh! d'oh!
The man who marries a beautiful woman, and the farmer who grows corn by the roadside have the same problem
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Rankaz13
#1485 Posted : Wednesday, September 25, 2013 9:34:07 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 5/21/2013
Posts: 2,841
Location: Here
ZZE123 wrote:
"Three floors collapsed" – Does this mean the building is downd'oh! d'oh!


Anybody?d'oh! d'oh! AlJazeera is reporting partial collapse, what does that even mean? Sad Sad
Life is like playing a violin solo in public and learning the instrument as one goes on.
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washiku
#1486 Posted : Wednesday, September 25, 2013 9:34:17 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 13,095
ZZE123 wrote:
"Three floors collapsed" – Does this mean the building is downd'oh! d'oh!


I think it will have to be rebuild afresh...three floors having collapsed means the structural strength of the building must have been shaken/weakened...Specialists in Architectural n civil engineering work can confirm such. Where is our very own @a4architect.com?
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mkonomtupu
#1487 Posted : Wednesday, September 25, 2013 9:34:42 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 2/10/2010
Posts: 1,001
Location: River Road
Even though i wear thick jubilee goggles on this one one I agree with @poundfoolish, recce squad were very professional and should have been left to save as many lives. I was horrified when I saw the military deployed. In what was delicate operation to save lives we had helicopter gunships, troop carriers, troops with rocket propelled grenades, deployed rangers, green berets, crack shots and ended up with 3 floors of a building collapsing. Whoever gave the command for military went overboard and jubilants should heed the caution. We deployed them in mandera they used mortars to separate fighting groups. We keep saying our police is incompetent and keep deploying soldiers for civilian issues. Sometimes let's remove our jubilant goggles and tell our leaders responding to "a bunch of cowards" with a sledge hammer that is sheer incompetence.
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Rankaz13
#1488 Posted : Wednesday, September 25, 2013 9:44:12 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 5/21/2013
Posts: 2,841
Location: Here
mkonomtupu wrote:
Even though i wear thick jubilee goggles on this one one I agree with @poundfoolish, recce squad were very professional and should have been left to save as many lives. I was horrified when I saw the military deployed. In what was delicate operation to save lives we had helicopter gunships, troop carriers, troops with rocket propelled grenades, deployed rangers, green berets, crack shots and ended up with 3 floors of a building collapsing. Whoever gave the command for military went overboard and jubilants should heed the caution. We deployed them in mandera they used mortars to separate fighting groups. We keep saying our police is incompetent and keep deploying soldiers for civilian issues. Sometimes let's remove our jubilant goggles and tell our leaders responding to "a bunch of cowards" with a sledge hammer that is sheer incompetence.


Seconded!
Life is like playing a violin solo in public and learning the instrument as one goes on.
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alma
#1489 Posted : Wednesday, September 25, 2013 9:55:57 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
wearing goggles all the time may make you blind.

Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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McReggae
#1490 Posted : Wednesday, September 25, 2013 10:03:58 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
alma wrote:
wearing goggles all the time may make you blind.



Exactment!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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