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Attack at Westgate
simonkabz
#1461 Posted : Tuesday, September 24, 2013 11:29:33 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
urstill1 wrote:


Something about this video. .........so the cameraman was at a higher floor with some cops I guess -OPEN TARGETS. So, why was the guy crawling? Hiding from who? All the same, Praises to him kwa kujitolea n the lady for her courage.

TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
harrydre
#1462 Posted : Tuesday, September 24, 2013 11:59:51 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/10/2008
Posts: 9,131
Location: Kanjo
kitunda wrote:
Our soldiers are some of the finest! War school or no war school. They were at a terrible disadvantage walking in on the enemy...whatever the amount of planning;some plans backfire, sometimes...I'm thoroughly proud of what they've accomplished...we can talk all we can from the comfort of our sofas, comfy chairs; but our soldiers have paid the ultimate price for us to feel "safe and secure". Just take a minute and imagine you're the one going up one staircase, totally exposed to a sniper! Give it some thought!


Applause Applause Applause Applause

a hostage situation is no easy affair and more so in the hands of terrorists when you don't know what type of explosives might have been in there. I believe they did the best they could.
i.am.back!!!!
ecstacy
#1463 Posted : Wednesday, September 25, 2013 12:13:54 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2008
Posts: 4,449
The role of Recce vis-a-vis KDF and their complimentation will be a discussion point given the progression of events at Westgate in this unprecedented attack.
ZZE123
#1464 Posted : Wednesday, September 25, 2013 12:16:51 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/21/2008
Posts: 2,490
Lets have a minute of silence then say a prayer for our country.Pray
The man who marries a beautiful woman, and the farmer who grows corn by the roadside have the same problem
harrydre
#1465 Posted : Wednesday, September 25, 2013 12:17:50 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/10/2008
Posts: 9,131
Location: Kanjo
poundfoolish wrote:
Truth be told.. The military messed this thing up

We have seen photos of ground floor being cleared.. movie goers from the 3rd floor being rescued and at some point we were told the terrorists were cornered in a section of the building (by RECCE squad)...
then today three floors collapsed..
When did we lapse from controlling floors to only one floor.. to collapsing floors.

I personally believe the regular police from Gigiri were keeping the thugs busy.. then the flying squad rescued most people
After that the RECCE force with help from Israelis and British cornered the thugs..

This thing would have been finished by 3pm on Saturday.
We would like to know how it turned into a military spectacle for 4 days.. Why did we allow the military to take over what RECCE was doing well? why did we give them time to bobby trap the place and kill the hostages...?
5 teenagers managed to fell 6 army officers..
SHAME!!!


well, enough has been said about your post. mungu akusaidie this was not your grandma's kitchen that they were getting into. There were all sorts of uncertainties.
i.am.back!!!!
harrydre
#1466 Posted : Wednesday, September 25, 2013 12:19:31 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/10/2008
Posts: 9,131
Location: Kanjo
with a light touch @ecstacy the owner of this thread, just how did it end up in Politics? What type, color and thickness of goggles were you wearing then? smile
i.am.back!!!!
poundfoolish
#1467 Posted : Wednesday, September 25, 2013 12:19:34 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/2/2009
Posts: 2,458
Location: Nairobi
simonkabz wrote:
Um Sayala wrote:
poundfoolish wrote:
Truth be told.. The military messed this thing up

We have seen photos of ground floor being cleared.. movie goers from the 3rd floor being rescued and at some point we were told the terrorists were cornered in a section of the building (by RECCE squad)...
then today three floors collapsed..
When did we lapse from controlling floors to only one floor.. to collapsing floors.

I personally believe the regular police from Gigiri were keeping the thugs busy.. then the flying squad rescued most people
After that the RECCE force with help from Israelis and British cornered the thugs..

This thing would have been finished by 3pm on Saturday.
We would like to know how it turned into a military spectacle for 4 days.. Why did we allow the military to take over what RECCE was doing well? why did we give them time to bobby trap the place and kill the hostages...?
5 teenagers managed to fell 6 army officers..
SHAME!!!


Now listen and listen carefully.
Different levels of threat needs corresonding levels of response.
Usually an uarmed person may be controlled by natinal youth service
There is a level that Police or AP may control.
Then we have GSU, and their special RECCE units.
BEYOND that KDF must take charge, the process might not be linear. I've seen you call them thugs....may be thats why you think the pollice cd have finished the job by 3pm on saturday. Google about hostages in India for example and expand yur knowledge


Well said bro, though u are a tad too patient with this guy, very ignorant n insensitive. For a moment I thought he was talking of a different tragedy! Those police he is yapping about would have been massacred in huge numbers inside that dark, deathly maze. The ushering of terrified shoppers from the THREATLESS ground/1st floor does not amount to any rescue, coz anybody could have done it. Nothing heroic there. Engaging the highly trained terrorists who were ready to die in a dark mall is the real shit!

Likening the ATTITUDE n COURAGE of an SF soldier to that of a regular bribe taking cop is taking a stupid joke too far.


I will stick to my story.. call your KDF SF whatever you want to..
I'm not yapping from any comfort.. im talking from first hand information..

The RECCE squad is Israeli trained and for such occassions and when they went in they cornered the militants into one specific floor.. and this was because the courage of the regular police was somewhat a surprise to the thugs..

The Gigiri police were the first to respond, thinking that it was some robbers.. as they came in to engage, the banks in the building had pressed a distress call.. the flying squad was next on the scene.. the galant plainclothes you see on the photo guiding people out..
then they realised these are not normal Bank robbers cos of the massacre that was evident..
Thats when the RECCE and RDU squad came in..

Look at the photos.. the guys in blue with bullet proof vests..

It is when this team, with the help of Israelis and Britons went in that we started hearing stories of the ground and 3rd floors being under special forces control.

And then Ops control started shifting. and instead of advancing on the militants somebody somewhere thought this is the work of Rangers/Paramilitary. Who had to be prepared and flown in from Gilgil, as Lang'ata brought the infantry. The Recce squad meanwhile went back to Ruiru.
So the entire command ops had to shift from one special force on the ground to the military.

THAT IS THE TIMELAPSE and the first misstep..

Yes..There were 5 boys in there ready to die. That makes them dangerous. But at the point of being cornered they would not have sustained a fight with the ammunition they were carrying at the time..

the change of command from RECCE/RDU allowed the militants to get to their cache and sustain a fight for 3 nights....
I'm proud of our soldiers, but their 'commanders' were not intelligent at all in planning and executing this thing.

in the meantime the KDF burnt a parking lot.. and managed to bring down 3 floors.. unless you want to tell me the 5 militants, bearing in mind one had to be watching the hostages, managed to park enough explosives to bring down 3 floors.. and that means planting explosives in very specific places, the pillars..carrying such explosives amidst keeping a whole platoon busy, must be quite a commando squad for thugs, not just one time suicide mission Al Shabaab boys.

The main reason for a special force deployment is to minimise human casualty and then any other destruction while eliminating the enemy...

Where are the hostages or should i ask.. are there any missing person?
If we only had militants in there and no hostage then for heavens sake, let them rot in there alone. I would have been proud of telling them to keep the floor to themselves.
But we still have missing persons, a burnt out parking lot with cars and a collapsed floor..and 5 dead teenagers to show for it.

So my dear friends, call me anything. But i know what im asking here. it shall be a subject of study for other special Op teams in EA
murchr
#1468 Posted : Wednesday, September 25, 2013 12:24:14 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
harrydre wrote:
kitunda wrote:
Our soldiers are some of the finest! War school or no war school. They were at a terrible disadvantage walking in on the enemy...whatever the amount of planning;some plans backfire, sometimes...I'm thoroughly proud of what they've accomplished...we can talk all we can from the comfort of our sofas, comfy chairs; but our soldiers have paid the ultimate price for us to feel "safe and secure". Just take a minute and imagine you're the one going up one staircase, totally exposed to a sniper! Give it some thought!


Applause Applause Applause Applause

a hostage situation is no easy affair and more so in the hands of terrorists when you don't know what type of explosives might have been in there. I believe they did the best they could.


Indeed, our soldiers were at a disadvantage, these goons had studied the mall in out for days they laid out their plan. As for our soldiers its possible they've never been to the mall ever and this was their first time. I cannot sit and critisize, this aint a movie people.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
ecstacy
#1469 Posted : Wednesday, September 25, 2013 12:27:52 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2008
Posts: 4,449
poundfoolish wrote:
simonkabz wrote:
Um Sayala wrote:
poundfoolish wrote:
Truth be told.. The military messed this thing up

We have seen photos of ground floor being cleared.. movie goers from the 3rd floor being rescued and at some point we were told the terrorists were cornered in a section of the building (by RECCE squad)...
then today three floors collapsed..
When did we lapse from controlling floors to only one floor.. to collapsing floors.

I personally believe the regular police from Gigiri were keeping the thugs busy.. then the flying squad rescued most people
After that the RECCE force with help from Israelis and British cornered the thugs..

This thing would have been finished by 3pm on Saturday.
We would like to know how it turned into a military spectacle for 4 days.. Why did we allow the military to take over what RECCE was doing well? why did we give them time to bobby trap the place and kill the hostages...?
5 teenagers managed to fell 6 army officers..
SHAME!!!


Now listen and listen carefully.
Different levels of threat needs corresonding levels of response.
Usually an uarmed person may be controlled by natinal youth service
There is a level that Police or AP may control.
Then we have GSU, and their special RECCE units.
BEYOND that KDF must take charge, the process might not be linear. I've seen you call them thugs....may be thats why you think the pollice cd have finished the job by 3pm on saturday. Google about hostages in India for example and expand yur knowledge


Well said bro, though u are a tad too patient with this guy, very ignorant n insensitive. For a moment I thought he was talking of a different tragedy! Those police he is yapping about would have been massacred in huge numbers inside that dark, deathly maze. The ushering of terrified shoppers from the THREATLESS ground/1st floor does not amount to any rescue, coz anybody could have done it. Nothing heroic there. Engaging the highly trained terrorists who were ready to die in a dark mall is the real shit!

Likening the ATTITUDE n COURAGE of an SF soldier to that of a regular bribe taking cop is taking a stupid joke too far.


I will stick to my story.. call your KDF SF whatever you want to..
I'm not yapping from any comfort.. im talking from first hand information..

The RECCE squad is Israeli trained and for such occassions and when they went in they cornered the militants into one specific floor.. and this was because the courage of the regular police was somewhat a surprise to the thugs..

The Gigiri police were the first to respond, thinking that it was some robbers.. as they came in to engage, the banks in the building had pressed a distress call.. the flying squad was next on the scene.. the galant plainclothes you see on the photo guiding people out..
then they realised these are not normal Bank robbers cos of the massacre that was evident..
Thats when the RECCE and RDU squad came in..

Look at the photos.. the guys in blue with bullet proof vests..

It is when this team, with the help of Israelis and Britons went in that we started hearing stories of the ground and 3rd floors being under special forces control.

And then Ops control started shifting. and instead of advancing on the militants somebody somewhere thought this is the work of Rangers/Paramilitary. Who had to be prepared and flown in from Gilgil, as Lang'ata brought the infantry. The Recce squad meanwhile went back to Ruiru.
So the entire command ops had to shift from one special force on the ground to the military.

THAT IS THE TIMELAPSE and the first misstep..

Yes..There were 5 boys in there ready to die. That makes them dangerous. But at the point of being cornered they would not have sustained a fight with the ammunition they were carrying at the time..

the change of command from RECCE/RDU allowed the militants to get to their cache and sustain a fight for 3 nights....
I'm proud of our soldiers, but their 'commanders' were not intelligent at all in planning and executing this thing.

in the meantime the KDF burnt a parking lot.. and managed to bring down 3 floors.. unless you want to tell me the 5 militants, bearing in mind one had to be watching the hostages, managed to park enough explosives to bring down 3 floors.. and that means planting explosives in very specific places, the pillars..carrying such explosives amidst keeping a whole platoon busy, must be quite a commando squad for thugs, not just one time suicide mission Al Shabaab boys.

The main reason for a special force deployment is to minimise human casualty and then any other destruction while eliminating the enemy...

Where are the hostages or should i ask.. are there any missing person?
If we only had militants in there and no hostage then for heavens sake, let them rot in there alone. I would have been proud of telling them to keep the floor to themselves.
But we still have missing persons, a burnt out parking lot with cars and a collapsed floor..and 5 dead teenagers to show for it.

So my dear friends, call me anything. But i know what im asking here. it shall be a subject of study for other special Op teams in EA


@poundfoolish, there is some truth to this from apparent and anonymous sources involved in the operations. These are questions to be asked at the right time..
maka
#1470 Posted : Wednesday, September 25, 2013 12:34:23 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
ecstacy wrote:
poundfoolish wrote:
simonkabz wrote:
Um Sayala wrote:
poundfoolish wrote:
Truth be told.. The military messed this thing up

We have seen photos of ground floor being cleared.. movie goers from the 3rd floor being rescued and at some point we were told the terrorists were cornered in a section of the building (by RECCE squad)...
then today three floors collapsed..
When did we lapse from controlling floors to only one floor.. to collapsing floors.

I personally believe the regular police from Gigiri were keeping the thugs busy.. then the flying squad rescued most people
After that the RECCE force with help from Israelis and British cornered the thugs..

This thing would have been finished by 3pm on Saturday.
We would like to know how it turned into a military spectacle for 4 days.. Why did we allow the military to take over what RECCE was doing well? why did we give them time to bobby trap the place and kill the hostages...?
5 teenagers managed to fell 6 army officers..
SHAME!!!


Now listen and listen carefully.
Different levels of threat needs corresonding levels of response.
Usually an uarmed person may be controlled by natinal youth service
There is a level that Police or AP may control.
Then we have GSU, and their special RECCE units.
BEYOND that KDF must take charge, the process might not be linear. I've seen you call them thugs....may be thats why you think the pollice cd have finished the job by 3pm on saturday. Google about hostages in India for example and expand yur knowledge


Well said bro, though u are a tad too patient with this guy, very ignorant n insensitive. For a moment I thought he was talking of a different tragedy! Those police he is yapping about would have been massacred in huge numbers inside that dark, deathly maze. The ushering of terrified shoppers from the THREATLESS ground/1st floor does not amount to any rescue, coz anybody could have done it. Nothing heroic there. Engaging the highly trained terrorists who were ready to die in a dark mall is the real shit!

Likening the ATTITUDE n COURAGE of an SF soldier to that of a regular bribe taking cop is taking a stupid joke too far.


I will stick to my story.. call your KDF SF whatever you want to..
I'm not yapping from any comfort.. im talking from first hand information..

The RECCE squad is Israeli trained and for such occassions and when they went in they cornered the militants into one specific floor.. and this was because the courage of the regular police was somewhat a surprise to the thugs..

The Gigiri police were the first to respond, thinking that it was some robbers.. as they came in to engage, the banks in the building had pressed a distress call.. the flying squad was next on the scene.. the galant plainclothes you see on the photo guiding people out..
then they realised these are not normal Bank robbers cos of the massacre that was evident..
Thats when the RECCE and RDU squad came in..

Look at the photos.. the guys in blue with bullet proof vests..

It is when this team, with the help of Israelis and Britons went in that we started hearing stories of the ground and 3rd floors being under special forces control.

And then Ops control started shifting. and instead of advancing on the militants somebody somewhere thought this is the work of Rangers/Paramilitary. Who had to be prepared and flown in from Gilgil, as Lang'ata brought the infantry. The Recce squad meanwhile went back to Ruiru.
So the entire command ops had to shift from one special force on the ground to the military.

THAT IS THE TIMELAPSE and the first misstep..

Yes..There were 5 boys in there ready to die. That makes them dangerous. But at the point of being cornered they would not have sustained a fight with the ammunition they were carrying at the time..

the change of command from RECCE/RDU allowed the militants to get to their cache and sustain a fight for 3 nights....
I'm proud of our soldiers, but their 'commanders' were not intelligent at all in planning and executing this thing.

in the meantime the KDF burnt a parking lot.. and managed to bring down 3 floors.. unless you want to tell me the 5 militants, bearing in mind one had to be watching the hostages, managed to park enough explosives to bring down 3 floors.. and that means planting explosives in very specific places, the pillars..carrying such explosives amidst keeping a whole platoon busy, must be quite a commando squad for thugs, not just one time suicide mission Al Shabaab boys.

The main reason for a special force deployment is to minimise human casualty and then any other destruction while eliminating the enemy...

Where are the hostages or should i ask.. are there any missing person?
If we only had militants in there and no hostage then for heavens sake, let them rot in there alone. I would have been proud of telling them to keep the floor to themselves.
But we still have missing persons, a burnt out parking lot with cars and a collapsed floor..and 5 dead teenagers to show for it.

So my dear friends, call me anything. But i know what im asking here. it shall be a subject of study for other special Op teams in EA


@poundfoolish, there is some truth to this from apparent and anonymous sources involved in the operations. These are questions to be asked at the right time..

Through every experience there are life lessons to be learnt thats what makes us better prepared in the future...
possunt quia posse videntur
191 Pages«<145146147148149>»
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