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Kenya Economy Watch
newfarer
#421 Posted : Wednesday, September 18, 2013 9:41:58 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/19/2010
Posts: 3,505
Location: Uganda
mwekez@ji wrote:


Country needs money to develop ... Tell us, what is the rate of taxation in the country you wonna run to?


ok we are always being told that one third of what is collected goes to waste.
shouldn't the kra and treasury make better use of this instead of asking for more?
punda amecheka
mwekez@ji
#422 Posted : Wednesday, September 18, 2013 9:57:16 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 5/31/2011
Posts: 5,121
newfarer wrote:
mwekez@ji wrote:


Country needs money to develop ... Tell us, what is the rate of taxation in the country you wonna run to?


ok we are always being told that one third of what is collected goes to waste.
shouldn't the kra and treasury make better use of this instead of asking for more?


Come on!!! A third??? You must be living in moi era!!! That said, good use of the resources is very important and we have seen the recent and current government putting a lot of effort to achieve this. Its a tough journey but the country has made good steps. The country now needs to take off. What is wrong in it asking us to contribute a little more
mwekez@ji
#423 Posted : Wednesday, September 18, 2013 10:04:42 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 5/31/2011
Posts: 5,121
murchr
#424 Posted : Thursday, September 19, 2013 6:28:41 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
mkeiyd wrote:
murchr wrote:


Walipe alafu warudishiwe



Is there such plan/mechanism?
How will it work?

How do you identify and reach millions of farmers scattered throughout Kenya? The cost?


Inaitwa tax rebates works perfectly elsewhere in the world. Farmers pay taxes but upon proving that indeed they are farmers they get the taxes back, this ensures many if not all citizen pay their taxes.

On how every farmer can be reached. Never doubt the govt kwani haukuhesabiwa kwa censors? Remember you filled in info of how many chickens you have? What is that data for? Anyway, can work perfectly even for the jua kali sector if implemented.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
mkeiyd
#425 Posted : Thursday, September 19, 2013 10:38:50 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 3/26/2012
Posts: 1,182
murchr wrote:
mkeiyd wrote:
murchr wrote:


Walipe alafu warudishiwe



Is there such plan/mechanism?
How will it work?

How do you identify and reach millions of farmers scattered throughout Kenya? The cost?


Inaitwa tax rebates works perfectly elsewhere in the world. Farmers pay taxes but upon proving that indeed they are farmers they get the taxes back, this ensures many if not all citizen pay their taxes.

On how every farmer can be reached. Never doubt the govt kwani haukuhesabiwa kwa censors? Remember you filled in info of how many chickens you have? What is that data for? Anyway, can work perfectly even for the jua kali sector if implemented.


Fourth tenet is that the tax should be collected inexpensively both to the taxpayer and the government

At what cost in our uniquely Kenyan environment will the plan work?

Its Kenya we are talking about here. A Kenyan farmer [small scale] is not like the American or Australian farmer in all aspects.

How many small scale farmers have PIN? Most traders in the rural areas don't have ETR,how will farmers prove their reciepts are not River Rd-printed?

I have many questions but it would help if you explain in NO UNCERTAIN terms how the system can/will work in Kenya and be cost-effective & fair to each and every farmer.

For me,it is better to zero rate farm inputs more so fertilizer and pesticides.
murchr
#426 Posted : Thursday, September 19, 2013 2:02:23 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
mkeiyd wrote:
murchr wrote:
mkeiyd wrote:
murchr wrote:


Walipe alafu warudishiwe



Is there such plan/mechanism?
How will it work?

How do you identify and reach millions of farmers scattered throughout Kenya? The cost?


Inaitwa tax rebates works perfectly elsewhere in the world. Farmers pay taxes but upon proving that indeed they are farmers they get the taxes back, this ensures many if not all citizen pay their taxes.

On how every farmer can be reached. Never doubt the govt kwani haukuhesabiwa kwa censors? Remember you filled in info of how many chickens you have? What is that data for? Anyway, can work perfectly even for the jua kali sector if implemented.


Fourth tenet is that the tax should be collected inexpensively both to the taxpayer and the government

At what cost in our uniquely Kenyan environment will the plan work?

Its Kenya we are talking about here. A Kenyan farmer [small scale] is not like the American or Australian farmer in all aspects.

How many small scale farmers have PIN? Most traders in the rural areas don't have ETR,how will farmers prove their reciepts are not River Rd-printed?

I have many questions but it would help if you explain in NO UNCERTAIN terms how the system can/will work in Kenya and be cost-effective & fair to each and every farmer.

For me,it is better to zero rate farm inputs more so fertilizer and pesticides.



ETR for what? If they have an ID why not pin? Why do we make excuses for incompetence?
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
mkeiyd
#427 Posted : Thursday, September 19, 2013 3:22:51 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 3/26/2012
Posts: 1,182
murchr wrote:

ETR for what? If they have an ID why not pin? Why do we make excuses for incompetence?


How do you suggest they [farmers] will prove their receipts are genuine without ETR?

Are you saying everyone who has ID has PIN? Really?
FACT/REALITY is, most farmers don't have PINs and that's my friend is fault of no mine.


Back to my question.

Explain in NO UNCERTAIN terms how the system can/will work in Kenya and be cost-effective & fair to each and every farmer.
From a farmer making a purchase to the point of getting their rebate.

Explaining should be easier than implementing.
If explaining is hard, then ni kufyam!
murchr
#428 Posted : Friday, September 20, 2013 4:56:32 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
mkeiyd wrote:
murchr wrote:

ETR for what? If they have an ID why not pin? Why do we make excuses for incompetence?


How do you suggest they [farmers] will prove their receipts are genuine without ETR?

Are you saying everyone who has ID has PIN? Really?
FACT/REALITY is, most farmers don't have PINs and that's my friend is fault of no mine.


Back to my question.

Explain in NO UNCERTAIN terms how the system can/will work in Kenya and be cost-effective & fair to each and every farmer.
From a farmer making a purchase to the point of getting their rebate.

Explaining should be easier than implementing.
If explaining is hard, then ni kufyam!


Does a farmer need a ETR machine to BUY fertilizer? Why do u jump into discussions without going thru the arguments brought forth?

Rankaz was doubting the Presidents optism in the agri sector due to taxation - VAT. Now let me try to chew it for you. Small scale farmers dont depend on fertilizer as you'd want to make us believe here. They use kidogo sana if they do in most cases they rely on manure(cow dung, chicken poop or just compost). Even seeds, most small scale farmers grow back part of their last harvest. If anything, that 16% extra expense is passed to you when they hike the price do your research.

Now those who can be termed as "commercial farmers" i.e they sell close to 75% are eligible to get tax rebates from the gov. Once a farm produces output of a certain amount of income, the farmer can apply to be recognized as a vatable entity and KRA will give the farm a PIN number.

When they sell, they are allowed to Collect VAT ( i guess this is where the ETR is needed) and cover for the VAT paid on seeds n etc. If your farm is registered then its eligible for farmwork deductions, refunds of costs incurred on capex if and when you prevent soil erosion etc. And please understand the context of the argument before jumping with maneno bla bla
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
mkeiyd
#429 Posted : Friday, September 20, 2013 9:55:57 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 3/26/2012
Posts: 1,182
murchr wrote:
mkeiyd wrote:
murchr wrote:

ETR for what? If they have an ID why not pin? Why do we make excuses for incompetence?


How do you suggest they [farmers] will prove their receipts are genuine without ETR?

Are you saying everyone who has ID has PIN? Really?
FACT/REALITY is, most farmers don't have PINs and that's my friend is fault of no mine.


Back to my question.

Explain in NO UNCERTAIN terms how the system can/will work in Kenya and be cost-effective & fair to each and every farmer.
From a farmer making a purchase to the point of getting their rebate.

Explaining should be easier than implementing.
If explaining is hard, then ni kufyam!


Does a farmer need a ETR machine to BUY fertilizer? Why do u jump into discussions without going thru the arguments brought forth?

Rankaz was doubting the Presidents optism in the agri sector due to taxation - VAT. Now let me try to chew it for you. Small scale farmers dont depend on fertilizer as you'd want to make us believe here. They use kidogo sana if they do in most cases they rely on manure(cow dung, chicken poop or just compost). Even seeds, most small scale farmers grow back part of their last harvest. If anything, that 16% extra expense is passed to you when they hike the price do your research.

Now those who can be termed as "commercial farmers" i.e they sell close to 75% are eligible to get tax rebates from the gov. Once a farm produces output of a certain amount of income, the farmer can apply to be recognized as a vatable entity and KRA will give the farm a PIN number.

When they sell, they are allowed to Collect VAT ( i guess this is where the ETR is needed) and cover for the VAT paid on seeds n etc. If your farm is registered then its eligible for farmwork deductions, refunds of costs incurred on capex if and when you prevent soil erosion etc. And please understand the context of the argument before jumping with maneno bla bla


@murchr, Who said a farmer needs ETR to buy anything?
The farmer needs ETR to prove their claim for refund. The red part of your response,where you are guessing.Stop biting your tail.

There is an agrovet shop in every part of this country,do we have large scale farmers throughout the republic?
I buy farm inputs just as everybody in my village,in the Rift Valley,heck my in-laws do and their neighbors.
None of us is a large scale farmer and we don't qualify under your system. The millions of us get screwed while the big fish enjoy rebates.
That is one discriminative tax regime to the poor.
For years, my business has never gotten any VAT refund thanks to the unscrupulous entities. There will be unscrupulous farmers.
The taxman has to be sure. That is my biggest concern. The simplest solution,exempt farm inputs. Afterall, what else can one do with farm inputs other than use them in the farm?

Before i "jump with maneno bla bla", what was the context of the argument? I thought it was VAT on farm inputs.
Who qualifies to be small scale farmer.
mkeiyd
#430 Posted : Friday, September 20, 2013 10:02:52 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 3/26/2012
Posts: 1,182
murchr wrote:
mkeiyd wrote:
murchr wrote:

ETR for what? If they have an ID why not pin? Why do we make excuses for incompetence?


How do you suggest they [farmers] will prove their receipts are genuine without ETR?

Are you saying everyone who has ID has PIN? Really?
FACT/REALITY is, most farmers don't have PINs and that's my friend is fault of no mine.


Back to my question.

Explain in NO UNCERTAIN terms how the system can/will work in Kenya and be cost-effective & fair to each and every farmer.
From a farmer making a purchase to the point of getting their rebate.

Explaining should be easier than implementing.
If explaining is hard, then ni kufyam!


Does a farmer need a ETR machine to BUY fertilizer? Why do u jump into discussions without going thru the arguments brought forth?

Rankaz was doubting the Presidents optism in the agri sector due to taxation - VAT. Now let me try to chew it for you. Small scale farmers dont depend on fertilizer as you'd want to make us believe here. They use kidogo sana if they do in most cases they rely on manure(cow dung, chicken poop or just compost). Even seeds, most small scale farmers grow back part of their last harvest. If anything, that 16% extra expense is passed to you when they hike the price do your research.

Now those who can be termed as "commercial farmers" i.e they sell close to 75% are eligible to get tax rebates from the gov. Once a farm produces output of a certain amount of income, the farmer can apply to be recognized as a vatable entity and KRA will give the farm a PIN number.

When they sell, they are allowed to Collect VAT ( i guess this is where the ETR is needed) and cover for the VAT paid on seeds n etc. If your farm is registered then its eligible for farmwork deductions, refunds of costs incurred on capex if and when you prevent soil erosion etc. And please understand the context of the argument before jumping with maneno bla bla


@murchr, Who said a farmer needs ETR to buy anything?
The farmer needs ETR to prove their claim for refund. The red part of your response,where you are guessing.Stop biting your tail.

There is an agrovet shop in every part of this country,do we have large scale farmers throughout the republic?
I buy farm inputs just as everybody in my village,in the Rift Valley,heck my in-laws do and their neighbors.
None of us is a large scale farmer and we don't qualify under your system. The millions of us get screwed while the big fish enjoy rebates.
That is one discriminative tax regime to the poor.
For years, my business has never gotten any VAT refund thanks to the unscrupulous entities. There will be unscrupulous farmers if we go that way.
The taxman has to be sure. That is my biggest concern. The simplest solution,exempt farm inputs,which i believe is the case. Afterall, what else can one do with farm inputs other than use them in the farm?

Before i "jump with maneno bla bla", what was the context of the argument? I thought it was VAT on farm inputs.
Who qualifies to be a small scale farmer?
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