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Is Killing Right? Biblical Perspectives
InnovateGuy
#1 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2013 1:12:46 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/15/2012
Posts: 1,110
Do not kill, says the bible. But, then, Moses killed an Egyptian and buried him in sand. And Moses was God's man. Will the guy get justice in heaven? David, Saul and Samson killed. They are war heroes. They did it in honor of their people. Will those killed get justice in heaven? Killing, it seems, is a good thing as long it's killing the bad guys. Anyone to break it down for me?
Live Full Die Empty - Les Brown.
Mukiri
#2 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2013 1:25:18 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/11/2012
Posts: 5,222
You want to kill a 'bad guy'?

Proverbs 19:21
kysse
#3 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2013 1:31:17 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/17/2013
Posts: 4,693
Location: Earth
Gsopel of Predestination
Those who lived under the law will judged by the law.
InnovateGuy
#4 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2013 2:04:28 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/15/2012
Posts: 1,110
Mukiri wrote:
You want to kill a 'bad guy'?


Pastor, with all humility and due respect, I'm asking myself whether God treats us equally. While on one hand, God abhors sin, we also see some elements that go unpunished. Instead, they receive praises. These issues confuse my mind.
Live Full Die Empty - Les Brown.
Lolest!
#5 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2013 2:10:17 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
It depends. If the victim of murder acted without decorum, it's ok to kill them.-wazua consensus
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
xyzee
#6 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2013 2:15:18 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/9/2009
Posts: 1,262
InnovateGuy wrote:
Do not kill, says the bible. But, then, Moses killed an Egyptian and buried him in sand. And Moses was God's man. Will the guy get justice in heaven? David, Saul and Samson killed. They are war heroes. They did it in honor of their people. Will those killed get justice in heaven? Killing, it seems, is a good thing as long it's killing the bad guys. Anyone to break it down for me?


#stolen form a biblical scholar

"Just because something is reported in the Bible doesn't mean it OK, you need to consider the context of the story. Great men in the Bible may have sinned at one time or the other in their lives, but they mended their relationship with God. Hence does not justify that the sin they may have commited is OK"

ole=pussy
#7 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2013 2:22:40 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 9/4/2013
Posts: 14
Deut 13If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or daughter, or the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own life entices you secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods—gods you have not known, you nor your fathers,

7 Of the gods of the peoples who are round about you, near you or far away from you, from one end of the earth to the other—

8 You shall not give consent to him or listen to him; nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him.

9 But you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hands of all the people.

10 And you shall stone him to death with stones, because he has tried to draw you away from the Lord your God, Who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

11 And all Israel shall hear and [reverently] fear, and shall never again do any such wickedness as this among you.

12 If you hear it said in one of your cities which the Lord your God has given you in which to dwell

13 That certain base fellows have gone out from your midst and have enticed away the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods—gods you have not known—

14 Then you shall inquire and make search and ask diligently. And behold, if it is true and certain that such an abominable thing has been done among you,

15 You shall surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly and all who are in it and its beasts with the edge of the sword.

16 And you shall collect all its spoil into the midst of its open square and shall burn the city with fire with every bit of its spoil [as a whole burnt offering] to the Lord your God. It shall be a heap [of ruins] forever; it shall not be built again.
Am
#8 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2013 2:27:58 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/21/2012
Posts: 1,739
Mukiri wrote:
You want to kill a 'bad guy'?


@Mukiri. Wacha maswali Mingi. Answer the question.
Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God..
bkismat
#9 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2013 2:29:15 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/23/2009
Posts: 2,375
The 'God' in the OT was a vengeful, racist, tribalist,xenophobic,jealous and many other vile words you can think of. However, he turned out all right in the New Testament
It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt...
-Mark Twain
Am
#10 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2013 2:29:33 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/21/2012
Posts: 1,739
ole=pussy wrote:
Deut 13If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or daughter, or the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own life entices you secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods—gods you have not known, you nor your fathers,

7 Of the gods of the peoples who are round about you, near you or far away from you, from one end of the earth to the other—

8 You shall not give consent to him or listen to him; nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him.

9 But you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hands of all the people.

10 And you shall stone him to death with stones, because he has tried to draw you away from the Lord your God, Who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

11 And all Israel shall hear and [reverently] fear, and shall never again do any such wickedness as this among you.

12 If you hear it said in one of your cities which the Lord your God has given you in which to dwell

13 That certain base fellows have gone out from your midst and have enticed away the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods—gods you have not known—

14 Then you shall inquire and make search and ask diligently. And behold, if it is true and certain that such an abominable thing has been done among you,

15 You shall surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly and all who are in it and its beasts with the edge of the sword.

16 And you shall collect all its spoil into the midst of its open square and shall burn the city with fire with every bit of its spoil [as a whole burnt offering] to the Lord your God. It shall be a heap [of ruins] forever; it shall not be built again.


We told you you are not needed here till you change your name to something mentionable.
Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God..
2012
#11 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2013 3:23:56 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
InnovateGuy wrote:
Do not kill, says the bible. But, then, Moses killed an Egyptian and buried him in sand. And Moses was God's man. Will the guy get justice in heaven? David, Saul and Samson killed. They are war heroes. They did it in honor of their people. Will those killed get justice in heaven? Killing, it seems, is a good thing as long it's killing the bad guys. Anyone to break it down for me?


I don't know if the law than applied to Moses because the act was committed before he went up to the mountain to receive the commandments. That said, Kane was punished for the 1st murder recorded. I don't think that war counts as there are instances where God send his people to war even commanding Saul not to leave anything alive.

BBI will solve it
:)
mkonomtupu
#12 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2013 4:26:41 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/10/2010
Posts: 1,001
Location: River Road
InnovateGuy wrote:
Do not kill, says the bible. But, then, Moses killed an Egyptian and buried him in sand. And Moses was God's man. Will the guy get justice in heaven? David, Saul and Samson killed. They are war heroes. They did it in honor of their people. Will those killed get justice in heaven? Killing, it seems, is a good thing as long it's killing the bad guys. Anyone to break it down for me?


“Do not allow a sorceress to live.” (Exodus 22:18)

“This is what the Lord Almighty says... ‘Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’” (1 Samuel 15:3)

“Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us – he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.” (Psalm 137:9)

"Kill also all the women who have slept with a man. Spare the lives only of the young girls who have not slept with a man, and take them for yourselves".Num 31:7-19

"Yahweh gave into the power of Israel; and Israel struck every living creature there with the edge of the sword, and left none alive".Joshua 10:30
AlphDoti
#13 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2013 5:08:41 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
InnovateGuy wrote:
Do not kill, says the bible. But, then, Moses killed an Egyptian and buried him in sand. And Moses was God's man. Will the guy get justice in heaven? David, Saul and Samson killed. They are war heroes. They did it in honor of their people. Will those killed get justice in heaven? Killing, it seems, is a good thing as long it's killing the bad guys. Anyone to break it down for me?

If everybody believed and followed one way, there would be no war and peace would fill the earth.

But part of God's plan is to test everyone with what they have been given.

All the messengers and prophets came
to teach how to WORSHIP ONE GOD and BE GOOD TO EACH OTHER

The Quran tells us that
after a prophet is sent, people would choose whether to believe or not.
That's why today we see churhes, and synagogues, and temples, and mosques and millions of people dressing and praying differntly.
Coolio
#14 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2013 7:21:59 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/28/2008
Posts: 2,276
Location: Kibish
Exodus 20:13 says Do not kill. But due to human behavior, criminals especially terrorists have to be "promoted"!!!!!!!!!!
Nadondosha meli kubwa seuze ngalawa!
Mukiri
#15 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2013 7:24:44 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/11/2012
Posts: 5,222
InnovateGuy wrote:
Mukiri wrote:
You want to kill a 'bad guy'?


Pastor, with all humility and due respect, I'm asking myself whether God treats us equally. While on one hand, God abhors sin, we also see some elements that go unpunished. Instead, they receive praises. These issues confuse my mind.

I really don't know how to put this mildly, given your humility, without sounding cliché. Take a cup(you), now try filling it with all the water in the ocean (trying to decipher a mighty God). And when you get overwhelmed, you turn to another cup(me) for 'help' maybe coz it looks abit *insert what you perceive of me here*!

Ever heard this (rephrased) joke?
Quote:
A horse a cow and a deer all eat the same stuff-----grass. Yet the deer excretes little pellets, the cow turns out a flat patty, and the horse produces muffins of dried poop. Why do you suppose that is?" The guy is dumbfounded. Finally he replies, "I haven't the slightest idea." "So tell me," says the blonde, "How is it that you feel qualified to discuss God's actions when you don't know shit?"

Proverbs 19:21
kysse
#16 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2013 9:27:14 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/17/2013
Posts: 4,693
Location: Earth
ole what??Pray
Meduza
#17 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2013 9:39:09 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/7/2013
Posts: 447
Location: Nairobi
InnovateGuy wrote:
Do not kill, says the bible. But, then, Moses killed an Egyptian and buried him in sand. And Moses was God's man. Will the guy get justice in heaven? David, Saul and Samson killed. They are war heroes. They did it in honor of their people. Will those killed get justice in heaven? Killing, it seems, is a good thing as long it's killing the bad guys. Anyone to break it down for me?


in the African angle, Shaka Zulu Killed, MAU MAU Killed...well they were justified, they were fighting for liberation...one and the same thing...HISTORY. The Israelites had to have their story of origin...and they had their heroes...Those who killed and were not their heroes, they were punished by Yahweh. the justice system was different from the modern one, KILLING IS A SIN! God punished Cain for killing his brother.
You cant win, unless you first begin....
tycho
#18 Posted : Friday, September 13, 2013 7:06:55 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
InnovateGuy wrote:
Do not kill, says the bible. But, then, Moses killed an Egyptian and buried him in sand. And Moses was God's man. Will the guy get justice in heaven? David, Saul and Samson killed. They are war heroes. They did it in honor of their people. Will those killed get justice in heaven? Killing, it seems, is a good thing as long it's killing the bad guys. Anyone to break it down for me?


We should begin by stating who God is, what God's justice is, where it's found, and precedence of his justice.

Then we can summon Moses, Samson, and any other person, or instance you wish to weigh.

Who is God? Whichever definition I may choose, or offer, it's evident that I can only limit myself to what I know, experience, fear, hope for, . . . even if it's 'nothing'.

And, given that any individual, by virtue of birth, is a product of social interaction, God is shared and affirmed communally.

In this case we meet the God of Moses, and the children of Israel. A God of the 'chosen'; an election that is presented as the result of Man's struggle with God (Jacob versus the angel).

And indeed both Moses and Jacob display all aspects of humanity. Theirs is also a story of murder and intrigue, and internal conflict.

God is the highest expression of this conflict. Hence Jacob goes up the ladder.

That is, God's justice is the facilitation of Man's highest objectives. And this objective is the inspiration of the Prophets and their books.

Where is God's justice found? God's justice is found in at the point of personal and communal healing and inspiration, where the dead, unborn, and the living converge. The altar. And here, the injunction is 'thou shall not kill'. At the altar Man meets justice and is ennobled.

Precedence. When Cain, a man, committed an act of murder, found reconciliation and healing, from the altar. And so was it with Moses and Samson. One only has to present himself at the altar to find justice.

War is differentiation. Seperation. A function of Man's experience of God. Religion is this expression. Thus one is always to consider God's justice in evolutionary terms.








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