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What Ails Africa
tycho
#81 Posted : Sunday, August 25, 2013 1:12:37 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
masukuma wrote:
jaggernaut wrote:
kysse wrote:
List in your preferred order from below, beginning with the worst to the least.
You may add to the list.

1.Tribes
2.Western influence
3.Corruption/Greed
4.Funded Militias
5.Attitude/Mentality
6.Religion
7.Governance
8.Jealousy and hatred among African countries.
9.Politics
10.Culture/Traditions





The problem is that we have been brainwashed to believe that Africa is a hell hole plagued by all manner of problems and that the rest of the world is a paradise. You just need to read abit of history (and current affairs) to realise that worse conditions have occurred elsewhere. Even in Europe the situation was much worse not so long ago. You can read about feudal europe, the black death, cholera in europe, irish famine, slums in europe, world wars (70m were killed in WW2 just 70yrs ago!), bosnia, Kosovo, syria, beirut, afghanistan, Korea, Niajin massacre carried out by the japanese on the chinese,israel/palestine, india/pakistan, annihilation of the indigenous peoples of the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, latin america etc etc.


we are getting there! has anyone watched "men who built america?"


'There'? I'd rather we lived here and now. Then, we'll live creatively and we'll be in touch with our needs.
masukuma
#82 Posted : Sunday, August 25, 2013 1:47:15 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
jaggernaut wrote:
kysse wrote:
List in your preferred order from below, beginning with the worst to the least.
You may add to the list.

1.Tribes
2.Western influence
3.Corruption/Greed
4.Funded Militias
5.Attitude/Mentality
6.Religion
7.Governance
8.Jealousy and hatred among African countries.
9.Politics
10.Culture/Traditions





The problem is that we have been brainwashed to believe that Africa is a hell hole plagued by all manner of problems and that the rest of the world is a paradise. You just need to read abit of history (and current affairs) to realise that worse conditions have occurred elsewhere. Even in Europe the situation was much worse not so long ago. You can read about feudal europe, the black death, cholera in europe, irish famine, slums in europe, world wars (70m were killed in WW2 just 70yrs ago!), bosnia, Kosovo, syria, beirut, afghanistan, Korea, Niajin massacre carried out by the japanese on the chinese,israel/palestine, india/pakistan, annihilation of the indigenous peoples of the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, latin america etc etc.


we are getting there! has anyone watched "men who built america?"


'There'? I'd rather we lived here and now. Then, we'll live creatively and we'll be in touch with our needs.

kwani hauelewi the statement "we are getting there"?
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
tycho
#83 Posted : Sunday, August 25, 2013 1:52:36 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
masukuma wrote:
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
jaggernaut wrote:
kysse wrote:
List in your preferred order from below, beginning with the worst to the least.
You may add to the list.

1.Tribes
2.Western influence
3.Corruption/Greed
4.Funded Militias
5.Attitude/Mentality
6.Religion
7.Governance
8.Jealousy and hatred among African countries.
9.Politics
10.Culture/Traditions





The problem is that we have been brainwashed to believe that Africa is a hell hole plagued by all manner of problems and that the rest of the world is a paradise. You just need to read abit of history (and current affairs) to realise that worse conditions have occurred elsewhere. Even in Europe the situation was much worse not so long ago. You can read about feudal europe, the black death, cholera in europe, irish famine, slums in europe, world wars (70m were killed in WW2 just 70yrs ago!), bosnia, Kosovo, syria, beirut, afghanistan, Korea, Niajin massacre carried out by the japanese on the chinese,israel/palestine, india/pakistan, annihilation of the indigenous peoples of the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, latin america etc etc.


we are getting there! has anyone watched "men who built america?"


'There'? I'd rather we lived here and now. Then, we'll live creatively and we'll be in touch with our needs.

kwani hauelewi the statement "we are getting there"?


Hapana. What do you mean?
kysse
#84 Posted : Sunday, August 25, 2013 2:34:19 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/17/2013
Posts: 4,693
Location: Earth
I think Tycho is against what we describe to as progress.

Using the west as a yardstick is what irks him.
I think he prefers Africa friendly solutions to Africa's problems instead of allowing the west to define us.
Can we do without the west tycho?
kiash
#85 Posted : Sunday, August 25, 2013 3:13:28 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/27/2010
Posts: 951
Location: Nyumbani
kysse wrote:
List in your preferred order from below, beginning with the worst to the least.
You may add to the list.

1.Tribes

2.Western influence
3.Corruption/Greed
4.Funded Militias
5.Attitude/Mentality
6.Religion
7.Governance
8.Jealousy and hatred among African countries.
9.Politics
10.Culture/Traditions







I think we shall always be tribes. The problem is when you are poor and that’s why people start associating their poverty with tribes. This was evident in 2007 when places like Kibra were burning, others were quite @ home in the posh neighborhoods they did not take arms against each other. Ever noticed among the monied , they refer each other using the English names , Antony , Richard, Ruth while among the less moneyed its usually Kamau , Onyango , Kipruto ,Mueni .
No need to talk about western influence depends on what you copy. our grandfathers who started copying we know how far they went .They went to school like the westerners and most of us are where we are because of copying western culture otherwise we could still hunting and gathering fruits like the pygmies in Congo. But if we start adopting bestiality and homosexuality, then we are doomed.
Religion we tend to really take this to extreme no one sees any problem feeding a rich pastor and building them houses while we do not have our own or buying them posh cars while we are taking matatus to work or even trekking.

Politics, like religion is also taken to the extreme, not that it’s bad to talk politics but I guess people should know the limits and when to get to work
Culture /traditions like western influence, I think we should know what to continue practicing and what to stop. Talk of stuff like female g mutilation or practicing witchcraft. At least we are a bit better we do not have the voodoos.

symbols
#86 Posted : Sunday, August 25, 2013 3:54:28 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 2,552
tycho wrote:
symbols wrote:
tycho wrote:
symbols wrote:
tycho wrote:
symbols wrote:
tycho wrote:
kysse wrote:
kiterunner wrote:
Can we now offer solutions on this thread


Applause Applause .

Whenever I come across well travelled and highly educated people in positions of authority behaving talking and reasoning like jungle animals,I lose hope for Africa.
We are a strangely unique people who read 'motive' in any attempt to progress.

First step is to acknowledge that we are enemies of progress.


When the 'white man' came, he found 'us' behaving like 'wild animals' and embarked on the process of civilizing the African.

And now, a few years later, it's the African calling himself a savage, and bemoaning his being.

It makes me wonder, isn't this the highest form of 'indoctrination', 'Babylon'? For, there's no way a person can speak thus of his self and not be lost.

We are doing exactly what the 'white man' wanted us to do. Abandon our identity and embrace the 'enlightenment'.

But what will happen when you awaken to the event that the enlightenment ideas have run out breath and are now dead?

Where will you run to?

Whose idea will you borrow? You Godless race?

Idol worshipers. Vampires.



What is enlightenment to you?


There's only one true enlightenment, being in identity with the most high and unnamable being.

To embrace the mind, the body, and the spirit. And be in such unity now, and forever more.


I think that is also a foreign idea.My point being that ideas can't be defined as Western,Eastern or African.Africa has to be open to foreign ideas but like @masukuma pointed out,applied to our local conditions.If we've discovered we were doing something(s) in a way that wasn't fulfilling our goals shouldn't we accept it?


Is it? What is the 'Ka' in 'Afrika'?

I'm not talking about excluding other races, Among the Africans there was communalism, and kinship; what did 'assimilation' do? Families were torn apart, 'native' culture abandoned, and looked at with suspicion.

Lol. Can we identify ideas among our tribes that are 'decadent'? Wife inheritance? Imagine the logic behind it. The tribe at its most considerate, neh?

But now city life has torn everyone apart, each is on his own. Now we are having the technocity, how will we live in it? Will the 'African' cease to exist? Are we all going to die swimming across the 'oceans'?

'We are', means Identity. Identity, idea.


How does one bring the benefits of being and identity to the starving African?


Which 'one'? Are you a starving African?


Its not about me.Its about Africa and trying to bring the collective knowledge to good use.
harrydre
#87 Posted : Sunday, August 25, 2013 4:00:29 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/10/2008
Posts: 9,131
Location: Kanjo
if we educate the masses and kill corruption and work extra harder to detail, most of all these problems will go away.
i.am.back!!!!
symbols
#88 Posted : Sunday, August 25, 2013 4:30:35 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 2,552
harrydre wrote:
if we educate the masses and kill corruption and work extra harder to detail, most of all these problems will go away.


I agree.The mwakenya culture is a big problem.There was a time Africa fought for a chance to acquire knowledge.Now our role models are drug lords,thieves,murders....

And from what I understand knowledge in the African culture was passed on by our grandparents.Now the grandparents are busy fungaing their grandchildren and their children disregarding them because the tv and is a better nanny with less obligations.Well we don't live in the same conditions but we've lost something.
tycho
#89 Posted : Sunday, August 25, 2013 4:31:46 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
symbols wrote:
tycho wrote:
symbols wrote:
tycho wrote:
symbols wrote:
tycho wrote:
symbols wrote:
tycho wrote:
kysse wrote:
kiterunner wrote:
Can we now offer solutions on this thread


Applause Applause .

Whenever I come across well travelled and highly educated people in positions of authority behaving talking and reasoning like jungle animals,I lose hope for Africa.
We are a strangely unique people who read 'motive' in any attempt to progress.

First step is to acknowledge that we are enemies of progress.


When the 'white man' came, he found 'us' behaving like 'wild animals' and embarked on the process of civilizing the African.

And now, a few years later, it's the African calling himself a savage, and bemoaning his being.

It makes me wonder, isn't this the highest form of 'indoctrination', 'Babylon'? For, there's no way a person can speak thus of his self and not be lost.

We are doing exactly what the 'white man' wanted us to do. Abandon our identity and embrace the 'enlightenment'.

But what will happen when you awaken to the event that the enlightenment ideas have run out breath and are now dead?

Where will you run to?

Whose idea will you borrow? You Godless race?

Idol worshipers. Vampires.



What is enlightenment to you?


There's only one true enlightenment, being in identity with the most high and unnamable being.

To embrace the mind, the body, and the spirit. And be in such unity now, and forever more.


I think that is also a foreign idea.My point being that ideas can't be defined as Western,Eastern or African.Africa has to be open to foreign ideas but like @masukuma pointed out,applied to our local conditions.If we've discovered we were doing something(s) in a way that wasn't fulfilling our goals shouldn't we accept it?


Is it? What is the 'Ka' in 'Afrika'?

I'm not talking about excluding other races, Among the Africans there was communalism, and kinship; what did 'assimilation' do? Families were torn apart, 'native' culture abandoned, and looked at with suspicion.

Lol. Can we identify ideas among our tribes that are 'decadent'? Wife inheritance? Imagine the logic behind it. The tribe at its most considerate, neh?

But now city life has torn everyone apart, each is on his own. Now we are having the technocity, how will we live in it? Will the 'African' cease to exist? Are we all going to die swimming across the 'oceans'?

'We are', means Identity. Identity, idea.


How does one bring the benefits of being and identity to the starving African?


Which 'one'? Are you a starving African?


Its not about me.Its about Africa and trying to bring the collective knowledge to good use.


Africa is you. It's always about you. How you live, and love. How you find and share knowledge, and use it.
symbols
#90 Posted : Sunday, August 25, 2013 4:40:12 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 2,552
tycho wrote:
symbols wrote:
tycho wrote:
symbols wrote:
tycho wrote:
symbols wrote:
tycho wrote:
symbols wrote:
tycho wrote:
kysse wrote:
kiterunner wrote:
Can we now offer solutions on this thread


Applause Applause .

Whenever I come across well travelled and highly educated people in positions of authority behaving talking and reasoning like jungle animals,I lose hope for Africa.
We are a strangely unique people who read 'motive' in any attempt to progress.

First step is to acknowledge that we are enemies of progress.


When the 'white man' came, he found 'us' behaving like 'wild animals' and embarked on the process of civilizing the African.

And now, a few years later, it's the African calling himself a savage, and bemoaning his being.

It makes me wonder, isn't this the highest form of 'indoctrination', 'Babylon'? For, there's no way a person can speak thus of his self and not be lost.

We are doing exactly what the 'white man' wanted us to do. Abandon our identity and embrace the 'enlightenment'.

But what will happen when you awaken to the event that the enlightenment ideas have run out breath and are now dead?

Where will you run to?

Whose idea will you borrow? You Godless race?

Idol worshipers. Vampires.



What is enlightenment to you?


There's only one true enlightenment, being in identity with the most high and unnamable being.

To embrace the mind, the body, and the spirit. And be in such unity now, and forever more.


I think that is also a foreign idea.My point being that ideas can't be defined as Western,Eastern or African.Africa has to be open to foreign ideas but like @masukuma pointed out,applied to our local conditions.If we've discovered we were doing something(s) in a way that wasn't fulfilling our goals shouldn't we accept it?


Is it? What is the 'Ka' in 'Afrika'?

I'm not talking about excluding other races, Among the Africans there was communalism, and kinship; what did 'assimilation' do? Families were torn apart, 'native' culture abandoned, and looked at with suspicion.

Lol. Can we identify ideas among our tribes that are 'decadent'? Wife inheritance? Imagine the logic behind it. The tribe at its most considerate, neh?

But now city life has torn everyone apart, each is on his own. Now we are having the technocity, how will we live in it? Will the 'African' cease to exist? Are we all going to die swimming across the 'oceans'?

'We are', means Identity. Identity, idea.


How does one bring the benefits of being and identity to the starving African?


Which 'one'? Are you a starving African?


Its not about me.Its about Africa and trying to bring the collective knowledge to good use.


Africa is you. It's always about you. How you live, and love. How you find and share knowledge, and use it.

tycho
#91 Posted : Sunday, August 25, 2013 5:05:12 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
kysse wrote:
I think Tycho is against what we describe to as progress.

Using the west as a yardstick is what irks him.
I think he prefers Africa friendly solutions to Africa's problems instead of allowing the west to define us.
Can we do without the west tycho?


The question is, can we meet the West in authentic political dialogue where we can fulfill our needs as Africans?

Can we be, and let the West be? And can the East engage the West without one seeking to dominate the other?

These were the core values of the African. I remember reading about 'conquering' African 'Kings' employing the conquered in government. Egyptian priests making space for new 'Divinities' in their cities. And it makes me wonder if the African way isn't the best. The cradle of mankind could only embrace the greatest variety and freedom.
murchr
#92 Posted : Sunday, August 25, 2013 8:22:31 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
tycho wrote:
kysse wrote:
I think Tycho is against what we describe to as progress.

Using the west as a yardstick is what irks him.
I think he prefers Africa friendly solutions to Africa's problems instead of allowing the west to define us.
Can we do without the west tycho?


The question is, can we meet the West in authentic political dialogue where we can fulfill our needs as Africans?

Can we be, and let the West be? And can the East engage the West without one seeking to dominate the other?

These were the core values of the African. I remember reading about 'conquering' African 'Kings' employing the conquered in government. Egyptian priests making space for new 'Divinities' in their cities. And it makes me wonder if the African way isn't the best. The cradle of mankind could only embrace the greatest variety and freedom.


I ask the same question. What is wrong with our Njuri Ncheke and Kaya elders? What is wrong with our Kingdoms that we refer them as "Primitive"? Why do we despise our medicine and opt for that from the west and now east? Simply put, what will make us appreciate what is ours what we are as far as culture and traditions are concerned?
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
Rankaz13
#93 Posted : Sunday, August 25, 2013 9:40:28 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/21/2013
Posts: 2,841
Location: Here
kiash wrote:
kysse wrote:
List in your preferred order from below, beginning with the worst to the least.
You may add to the list.

1.Tribes

2.Western influence
3.Corruption/Greed
4.Funded Militias
5.Attitude/Mentality
6.Religion
7.Governance
8.Jealousy and hatred among African countries.
9.Politics
10.Culture/Traditions




I think we shall always be tribes. The problem is when you are poor and that’s why people start associating their poverty with tribes. This was evident in 2007 when places like Kibra were burning, others were quite @ home in the posh neighborhoods they did not take arms against each other. Ever noticed among the monied , they refer each other using the English names , Antony , Richard, Ruth while among the less moneyed its usually Kamau , Onyango , Kipruto ,Mueni .
No need to talk about western influence depends on what you copy. our grandfathers who started copying we know how far they went .They went to school like the westerners and most of us are where we are because of copying western culture otherwise we could still hunting and gathering fruits like the pygmies in Congo. But if we start adopting bestiality and homosexuality, then we are doomed.
Religion we tend to really take this to extreme no one sees any problem feeding a rich pastor and building them houses while we do not have our own or buying them posh cars while we are taking matatus to work or even trekking.

Politics, like religion is also taken to the extreme, not that it’s bad to talk politics but I guess people should know the limits and when to get to work
Culture /traditions like western influence, I think we should know what to continue practicing and what to stop. Talk of stuff like female g mutilation or practicing witchcraft. At least we are a bit better we do not have the voodoos.



And by the way, anyone who thinks Europeans are not tribal probably doesn't know their history.
Life is like playing a violin solo in public and learning the instrument as one goes on.
kysse
#94 Posted : Sunday, August 25, 2013 9:58:01 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/17/2013
Posts: 4,693
Location: Earth
tycho wrote:

The question is, can we meet the West in authentic political dialogue where we can fulfill our needs as Africans?

We have our own international organisations (AU)through which we can air our views.
I think they are a toothless bull dog.


Can we be, and let the West be? And can the East engage the West without one seeking to dominate the other?

No it's not going to happen.When we look to the west for help,we must be prepared to dance their tune.And when we turn against them, we must suffer the consequences.
Look at what happened to African leaders who tried/try to fight western dominance.


These were the core values of the African. I remember reading about 'conquering' African 'Kings' employing the conquered in government. Egyptian priests making space for new 'Divinities' in their cities. And it makes me wonder if the African way isn't the best. The cradle of mankind could only embrace the greatest variety and freedom.

Africa destroys itself through extreme greed and corruption.It sells it's resources to a few rich at the expense of the poor.But we cry foul when they dominate us.


tycho
#95 Posted : Monday, August 26, 2013 2:43:19 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
kysse wrote:
tycho wrote:

The question is, can we meet the West in authentic political dialogue where we can fulfill our needs as Africans?

We have our own international organisations (AU)through which we can air our views.
I think they are a toothless bull dog.


Can we be, and let the West be? And can the East engage the West without one seeking to dominate the other?

No it's not going to happen.When we look to the west for help,we must be prepared to dance their tune.And when we turn against them, we must suffer the consequences.
Look at what happened to African leaders who tried/try to fight western dominance.


These were the core values of the African. I remember reading about 'conquering' African 'Kings' employing the conquered in government. Egyptian priests making space for new 'Divinities' in their cities. And it makes me wonder if the African way isn't the best. The cradle of mankind could only embrace the greatest variety and freedom.

Africa destroys itself through extreme greed and corruption.It sells it's resources to a few rich at the expense of the poor.But we cry foul when they dominate us.




Very little can be done with so little faith and energy. We'll only be left with bitterness, and poverty and powerlessness. Shadowy thoughts. Empty words.
Muriel
#96 Posted : Monday, August 26, 2013 9:50:46 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
Tycho and Kysse,

Both of you are right.

But you both of you think the other is wrong.

Lol. Cant help but laugh.
kripp
#97 Posted : Monday, August 26, 2013 9:53:51 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/13/2006
Posts: 58
"Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude." - Thomas Jefferson

"If it's to be, it's up to me." - unknown

"Failing to plan, is planning to fail." - unknown

"The best helping hand you'll ever find is at the end of your arm." - unknown

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." - Aristotle

"Goals are the fuel in the furnace of achievement." - Brian Tracy
tycho
#98 Posted : Monday, August 26, 2013 11:00:18 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Muriel wrote:
Tycho and Kysse,

Both of you are right.

But you both of you think the other is wrong.

Lol. Cant help but laugh.


Would you rather leave us in this 'ignorance', and 'confusion'?




kiash
#99 Posted : Monday, August 26, 2013 12:00:11 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/27/2010
Posts: 951
Location: Nyumbani
I would add my own actually I would say a little shame on you for those who talk about genetics coz this has nothing to do with race. What we lack is organization. Sorry to say this but I guess those people who have visited Europe America and some Asian countries will be ok with me. Look @ every sector and you will see what I mean. Look at the mess with some taxis, Kenyatta N hospital (juzi tuliona Sonko Na Shebesh) Fire fighting, hawkers mama mbogas am sure if all these people were organized things would be better for them. One might think it’s a small issue but look like in the banks where they have the line saying “wait for your turn “ and check on the open counter for enquiries everyone jostling to be served.
A good case where things have worked is in the matatu industry (mostly upcountry) where the coop societies have managed to put order. That way we do not have to fight for passengers it’s also in some boda bodas in some estates with a kablackboard with the number of trips made. Milk, Tea and coffee industries have also adopted this organization.
Muriel
#100 Posted : Monday, August 26, 2013 2:10:53 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
tycho wrote:
Muriel wrote:
Tycho and Kysse,

Both of you are right.

But you both of you think the other is wrong.

Lol. Cant help but laugh.


Would you rather leave us in this 'ignorance', and 'confusion'?







We are trying to find solutions to what ails Africa.

Because it seems we have found out that somethings is wrong with Africa because we have measured Africa and found it wanting.

Question is, what or who have we measured against? What makes them the standard with which to measure Africa? Who made them the standard? When? For what? For whom? Why do they think they are THE standard? We should, ought, must defy them at all costs. Its our bounden duty to tell them wapeleke ujuaji huko.

So you are very very right.

And.

The whole world is going to wonder after a certain western power lets call it the 'west' and the 'west' will force the whole world to 'worship' the 'west'. Ridiculous, right?

Kysse has already observed this; the 'forcing', the 'worshipping' - our own 'African' institutions are toothless bulldog and when you turn against the 'west' you suffer the consequences. This 'west' has refused to and will not mind its own business and let others be. Its happening even today the spying, the forcing, the cajoling, the bombing. And there is nothing anyone can do about it. Not even you.

So Kysse is also very very right.

See?

Each of you is feeling a different part of the elephant and are accusing each other. lol.
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