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Fuel tank logic
sparkly
#21 Posted : Tuesday, August 13, 2013 6:04:47 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
CLK wrote:
McReggae wrote:
There can be so many factors:
1. Shape of the tank, have seen it, it might be smaller at the bottom yet the gauge is linear.

2. The fuel pump only sucks in liquid and not vapour so as explained up there, room for evaporation is more when the tank is empty.

3. Some gauges are designed to show that FULL is FULL but EMPTY is never EMPTY....this helps you not to run out of fuel.

4. Your fuel gauge is not necessarily an accurate precision instrument!!!!!



Highly doubt the shape of the tank would matter since am looking at the number of kilometers the car says the fuel should take me not the pin position.
Full tank=700km, when i measure the number of kilometers at half tank, its abt 350-400km and the cars says so, however even when the car says i have 350km worth of fuel it will only take me for 200km.
So i used to fuel 3 times in a month full tank always, so whoen i realized this, i started refilling the tank at every half tank, which was equal to 4 refills of half a tank each, saving a full tank worth of fuel in the process. This is what did not make sense. And maybe what harrydre said would explain it..



Most cars will do an extra 100km after the tank runs "empty". meaning you can still squeeze out an extra 100km on the "reserve tank" or thereabouts from your 2nd half before refueling.
Life is short. Live passionately.
limanika
#22 Posted : Tuesday, August 13, 2013 6:06:41 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,032
@CLK, Interesting responses, do not just look at consumption…When filling the tank from empty to half, how much do you spend and compare this to how much you spend when filling from half to full? Answer that and also read https://autos.aol.com/article/gas-gauge/ then we talk…
CLK
#23 Posted : Tuesday, August 13, 2013 7:35:50 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/1/2009
Posts: 846
limanika wrote:
@CLK, Interesting responses, do not just look at consumption…When filling the tank from empty to half, how much do you spend and compare this to how much you spend when filling from half to full? Answer that and also read https://autos.aol.com/article/gas-gauge/ then we talk…

@Limanika, factored that in too, hence how i came with the conclusion that i actually spend more on fuel per month if i let refilled only when the light comes on compared to refilling at every half tank.
Full tank cost in the range of 6500-7k and i will refill at half tank with 3200-3500 which makes sense, for instance i do half a tank every 6-7 days, so i can comfortably refill every Friday with half a tank making it two full tanks a month, however a full tank takes me 10 days or 11 at most, making it 3 full tanks a month.
Impunity
#24 Posted : Tuesday, August 13, 2013 7:56:23 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,328
Location: Masada
CLK wrote:
limanika wrote:
@CLK, Interesting responses, do not just look at consumption…When filling the tank from empty to half, how much do you spend and compare this to how much you spend when filling from half to full? Answer that and also read https://autos.aol.com/article/gas-gauge/ then we talk…

@Limanika, factored that in too, hence how i came with the conclusion that i actually spend more on fuel per month if i let refilled only when the light comes on compared to refilling at every half tank.
Full tank cost in the range of 6500-7k and i will refill at half tank with 3200-3500 which makes sense, for instance i do half a tank every 6-7 days, so i can comfortably refill every Friday with half a tank making it two full tanks a month, however a full tank takes me 10 days or 11 at most, making it 3 full tanks a month.


Interesting find, I will try this.
Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.

sparkly
#25 Posted : Tuesday, August 13, 2013 8:05:24 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
CLK wrote:
limanika wrote:
@CLK, Interesting responses, do not just look at consumption…When filling the tank from empty to half, how much do you spend and compare this to how much you spend when filling from half to full? Answer that and also read https://autos.aol.com/article/gas-gauge/ then we talk…

@Limanika, factored that in too, hence how i came with the conclusion that i actually spend more on fuel per month if i let refilled only when the light comes on compared to refilling at every half tank.
Full tank cost in the range of 6500-7k and i will refill at half tank with 3200-3500 which makes sense, for instance i do half a tank every 6-7 days, so i can comfortably refill every Friday with half a tank making it two full tanks a month, however a full tank takes me 10 days or 11 at most, making it 3 full tanks a month.


@CLK at this point , i dare say that you are suffering from "confirmation bias":
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

Why don't you refuell at the 3/4 mark then and save another tank per month!

or are you saying there is some magic at the half tank mark?
Life is short. Live passionately.
CLK
#26 Posted : Tuesday, August 13, 2013 8:13:40 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/1/2009
Posts: 846
sparkly wrote:
CLK wrote:
limanika wrote:
@CLK, Interesting responses, do not just look at consumption…When filling the tank from empty to half, how much do you spend and compare this to how much you spend when filling from half to full? Answer that and also read https://autos.aol.com/article/gas-gauge/ then we talk…

@Limanika, factored that in too, hence how i came with the conclusion that i actually spend more on fuel per month if i let refilled only when the light comes on compared to refilling at every half tank.
Full tank cost in the range of 6500-7k and i will refill at half tank with 3200-3500 which makes sense, for instance i do half a tank every 6-7 days, so i can comfortably refill every Friday with half a tank making it two full tanks a month, however a full tank takes me 10 days or 11 at most, making it 3 full tanks a month.


@CLK at this point , i dare say that you are suffering from "confirmation bias":
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

Why don't you refuell at the 3/4 mark then and save another tank per month!

or are you saying there is some magic at the half tank mark?

sijui nikwambie nini, i only wanted a logical explanation to my findings/conclusions, which a few guys questioned hence the detailed revelations on how i came up with the conclusions, you are entitled to your opinion though.
I was hoping someone else had experienced something similar..

sparkly
#27 Posted : Tuesday, August 13, 2013 8:32:51 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
CLK wrote:
sparkly wrote:
CLK wrote:
limanika wrote:
@CLK, Interesting responses, do not just look at consumption…When filling the tank from empty to half, how much do you spend and compare this to how much you spend when filling from half to full? Answer that and also read https://autos.aol.com/article/gas-gauge/ then we talk…

@Limanika, factored that in too, hence how i came with the conclusion that i actually spend more on fuel per month if i let refilled only when the light comes on compared to refilling at every half tank.
Full tank cost in the range of 6500-7k and i will refill at half tank with 3200-3500 which makes sense, for instance i do half a tank every 6-7 days, so i can comfortably refill every Friday with half a tank making it two full tanks a month, however a full tank takes me 10 days or 11 at most, making it 3 full tanks a month.


@CLK at this point , i dare say that you are suffering from "confirmation bias":
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

Why don't you refuell at the 3/4 mark then and save another tank per month!

or are you saying there is some magic at the half tank mark?

sijui nikwambie nini, i only wanted a logical explanation to my findings/conclusions, which a few guys questioned hence the detailed revelations on how i came up with the conclusions, you are entitled to your opinion though.
I was hoping someone else had experienced something similar..



Just suggesting that you take the experiment one step further and confirm your findings.

Ask for me, i find that regularly servicing the car gives me excellent fuel economy.
Life is short. Live passionately.
Impunity
#28 Posted : Wednesday, August 14, 2013 5:50:46 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,328
Location: Masada
sparkly wrote:
CLK wrote:
sparkly wrote:
CLK wrote:
limanika wrote:
@CLK, Interesting responses, do not just look at consumption…When filling the tank from empty to half, how much do you spend and compare this to how much you spend when filling from half to full? Answer that and also read https://autos.aol.com/article/gas-gauge/ then we talk…

@Limanika, factored that in too, hence how i came with the conclusion that i actually spend more on fuel per month if i let refilled only when the light comes on compared to refilling at every half tank.
Full tank cost in the range of 6500-7k and i will refill at half tank with 3200-3500 which makes sense, for instance i do half a tank every 6-7 days, so i can comfortably refill every Friday with half a tank making it two full tanks a month, however a full tank takes me 10 days or 11 at most, making it 3 full tanks a month.


@CLK at this point , i dare say that you are suffering from "confirmation bias":
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

Why don't you refuell at the 3/4 mark then and save another tank per month!

or are you saying there is some magic at the half tank mark?

sijui nikwambie nini, i only wanted a logical explanation to my findings/conclusions, which a few guys questioned hence the detailed revelations on how i came up with the conclusions, you are entitled to your opinion though.
I was hoping someone else had experienced something similar..



Just suggesting that you take the experiment one step further and confirm your findings.

Ask for me, i find that regularly servicing the car gives me excellent fuel economy.


I want to try this but scientifically it all boils down to the fact that with full tank we have less evaporation; that's the only viable explanation...and topping at 3/4 instead of 1/2 tank may yield poorer result due to carry dead weight in form of fuel...the at half tank refill may be the inflexion point in all these!!!
d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!
Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.

limanika
#29 Posted : Thursday, August 15, 2013 8:16:46 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,032
@Impunity, there is no notable vaporisation in my opinion. Please take note:
• Fuel tanks are located on the sheltered underside of the cars, so no much temperature rise within or in vicinity of the tank. Gasoline evaporates at 350C at atmospheric pressure.
• The fuel tank has air tight lid, so no vapour leaks out of the tank.
• The air in fuel tank is always saturated with gasoline vapour, so there is negligible vaporisation.
If you left your car with half full tank for considerable period of time, how long would it take for all the fuel to vaporise and disappear?
Burning Spear
#30 Posted : Thursday, August 15, 2013 11:53:33 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 1,139
while at it. when do the car consume more fuel while stopping at traffic lights. when on Neutral or Drive.
"You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it". Malcolm X
limanika
#31 Posted : Thursday, August 15, 2013 1:51:39 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,032
Burning Spear wrote:
while at it. when do the car consume more fuel while stopping at traffic lights. when on Neutral or Drive.

Check, compare the RPM in each case and come back tell us what you think the saving is…
Impunity
#32 Posted : Thursday, August 15, 2013 5:14:22 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,328
Location: Masada
limanika wrote:
Burning Spear wrote:
while at it. when do the car consume more fuel while stopping at traffic lights. when on Neutral or Drive.

Check, compare the RPM in each case and come back tell us what you think the saving is…


RPM is slightly high at neutral, but at Drive the RPM slows down but the car groans in pain and vibrates as it struggles to move but brakes zimenyongwo...its on load and thus consumes more power.
So RPM is not the correct measure.
Shame on you Shame on you
Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.

McReggae
#33 Posted : Thursday, August 15, 2013 5:54:47 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
Impunity wrote:
limanika wrote:
Burning Spear wrote:
while at it. when do the car consume more fuel while stopping at traffic lights. when on Neutral or Drive.

Check, compare the RPM in each case and come back tell us what you think the saving is…


RPM is slightly high at neutral, but at Drive the RPM slows down but the car groans in pain and vibrates as it struggles to move but brakes zimenyongwo...its on load and thus consumes more power.
So RPM is not the correct measure.
Shame on you Shame on you


There is no much difference as the additional RPM is camcelled by the LOAD......it's advisable to always leave it on Drive.
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
limanika
#34 Posted : Thursday, August 15, 2013 6:00:38 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,032
At neutral the engine has to burn certain amount of gas to keep running… it is not in gear thus has to struggle a lot more.
The RPM is direct indication of the gas you are burning – Doesn’t this shows how many times the engine is revolving per minute? The more the RPM, the more the energy used?
You are actually better of engaged in Drive as this way you reduce the wear and tear when moving the stick. If however stopping for more than one minute, you are better of shutting of the engine.
Impunity
#35 Posted : Thursday, August 15, 2013 6:24:14 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,328
Location: Masada
limanika wrote:
At neutral the engine has to burn certain amount of gas to keep running… it is not in gear thus has to struggle a lot more.
The RPM is direct indication of the gas you are burning – Doesn’t this shows how many times the engine is revolving per minute? The more the RPM, the more the energy used?
You are actually better of engaged in Drive as this way you reduce the wear and tear when moving the stick. If however stopping for more than one minute, you are better of shutting of the engine.


At Neutral the engine struggles to run as compared to while on load???
Only if I were a blonde nurse, but with my heavy technical background, NO please, thank you.

@McReggae why is it normally advisable to leave it on drive? Any link please? My hand is always shifting that thinh to Neutral naturally when in stops!
Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.

digitek1
#36 Posted : Thursday, August 15, 2013 6:27:29 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/3/2010
Posts: 1,797
Location: Kenya
soo many conflicting conlusions.....
can we have an automobile expert start a sentence'without any fear of contradiction.....yes!
I may be wrong..but then I could be right
limanika
#37 Posted : Thursday, August 15, 2013 6:39:34 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,032
Impunity wrote:
limanika wrote:
At neutral the engine has to burn certain amount of gas to keep running… it is not in gear thus has to struggle a lot more.
The RPM is direct indication of the gas you are burning – Doesn’t this shows how many times the engine is revolving per minute? The more the RPM, the more the energy used?
You are actually better of engaged in Drive as this way you reduce the wear and tear when moving the stick. If however stopping for more than one minute, you are better of shutting of the engine.


At Neutral the engine struggles to run as compared to while on load???
Only if I were a blonde nurse, but with my heavy technical background, NO please, thank you.

@McReggae why is it normally advisable to leave it on drive? Any link please? My hand is always shifting that thinh to Neutral naturally when in stops!



Which load? The car is motionless, even if you release the brake it will come to a stop very shortly – provided there is no car ahead of you
limanika
#38 Posted : Thursday, August 15, 2013 7:00:30 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,032
digitek1 wrote:
soo many conflicting conlusions.....
can we have an automobile expert start a sentence'without any fear of contradiction.....yes!

Even ‘automobile experts’ may not agree… Let us agree to disagree
sparkly
#39 Posted : Thursday, August 15, 2013 9:43:49 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
limanika wrote:
@Impunity, there is no notable vaporisation in my opinion. Please take note:
• Fuel tanks are located on the sheltered underside of the cars, so no much temperature rise within or in vicinity of the tank. Gasoline evaporates at 350C at atmospheric pressure.
• The fuel tank has air tight lid, so no vapour leaks out of the tank.
• The air in fuel tank is always saturated with gasoline vapour, so there is negligible vaporisation.
If you left your car with half full tank for considerable period of time, how long would it take for all the fuel to vaporise and disappear?


Also evaporation occurs on the surface of the liquid. The rate of evaporation remains the same whether the container is half or three quarter full, as long as the exposed surface is the same.

It also hard for me to fathom that @CLK can lose 60 litres of petrol per month to evaporation, from a differential in refueling at the empty as opposed to halfway mark!
Life is short. Live passionately.
Impunity
#40 Posted : Friday, August 16, 2013 12:42:46 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,328
Location: Masada
limanika wrote:
Impunity wrote:
limanika wrote:
At neutral the engine has to burn certain amount of gas to keep running… it is not in gear thus has to struggle a lot more.
The RPM is direct indication of the gas you are burning – Doesn’t this shows how many times the engine is revolving per minute? The more the RPM, the more the energy used?
You are actually better of engaged in Drive as this way you reduce the wear and tear when moving the stick. If however stopping for more than one minute, you are better of shutting of the engine.


At Neutral the engine struggles to run as compared to while on load???
Only if I were a blonde nurse, but with my heavy technical background, NO please, thank you.

@McReggae why is it normally advisable to leave it on drive? Any link please? My hand is always shifting that thinh to Neutral naturally when in stops!



Which load? The car is motionless, even if you release the brake it will come to a stop very shortly – provided there is no car ahead of you


So if you leave your car on drive and lift your feet off the brake pedal if moves then stops after a short while? Mine moves at 10km/h indefinitely not unless you drive an automatic gear bulldozer!
d'oh!
Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.

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