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The hypocrisy behind CORD's referendum call
Rank: Elder Joined: 2/7/2007 Posts: 11,935 Location: Nairobi
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Poor fellow.....It's now saddening.What sane Kenyan will entrust his/her vote to an Mpig if i may?. Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/29/2009 Posts: 351
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McReggae wrote:Gathige wrote:McReggae wrote:[quote=Gathige]Whatever name they call it, any system that allows a select group of people to sit together and determine who becomes the President cannot fly. What is so hard for anybody who wants to be president going round all over the country and seek for votes? That is always so easily manipulated, and many mature democracies have phased it out!!!!![/quote] @McR, educate me on this: If we put all the Governors, Senators, mpigs and Women Reps and all the related appendages (Nominated, Special Interests) etc in a room to nominate a president for all of us, we would get better results that what 40+ million Kenyans would do via a direct election of a president? It's impossible to rig a collegiate system. Say, every county gets one vote. The senators of those counties elect the president - No failed BVR machines, no recounts, simple parliamentary vote, done.You can't stuff the ballots When you have just 300 votes, you cannot have rigging. The objective is not to alter who is voted for, but to eliminate vote-stealing.. Once you remove election of the president from the easily-stolen votes at the grassroots and move it to the easily-counted, finite votes either in parliament or the senate or both, you kill vote stuffing. Where will the senators come from?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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@siringi, Presidential is what we have now. Though it is kind of hybrid with Parliament having lots of power. Parliamentary system is the kind where the PM is leader of the party or coalition with the majority. Very unstable. College system is like the one of stato but it doesn't have to be in that form. What cord is proposing is also college system.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
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Kicks of a dying horse. No offense mean't. 1. You are born, 2. you grow, 3. you mature, 4. you wither, 5. you die. Raila is in the 4th stage, politically speaking. The only thing a referendum could do at this point is to turn the neutral zones of Western and Ukambani jubilated. Life is short. Live passionately.
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Rank: Chief Joined: 5/9/2007 Posts: 13,095
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And why has the wiper team kinda stayed aside n left Muthama to do the gig for them?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/1/2009 Posts: 1,885
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Siringi wrote:Wallahi Wariahe mimi bado habana kuona hiyo mina anaona ile wewe narespond kwa @Jus Blazin na @Gathige bado misquotation lakini that aside methinks we are missing out on the real debate na siyaona proper response and we might throw out the baby with the bath water as it were ; CORD could be having a point but lets deal with the rudimentals /fundamentals My issues: 1. What is a pure presidential system? give examples. uganda2. What is a pure parliamentary systems ? england3. Hi collegiate ni ile ya Marekani or what. yes. but that is not a system of governance - more like of electoral - and you thus cannot compare it with the above two.4. What are the pros and Cons of each? google is your hard-diskFrom all responses naona hapa watu wengi bado kugitch... McReggae wrote:@Siringi...read my comments above is response to @Lolest's earlier post!!!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/27/2008 Posts: 4,114
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McReggae wrote:It's impossible to rig a collegiate system. Say, every county gets one vote. The senators of those counties elect the president - No failed BVR machines, no recounts, simple parliamentary vote, done.You can't stuff the ballots When you have just 300 votes, you cannot have rigging. The objective is not to alter who is voted for, but to eliminate vote-stealing.. Once you remove election of the president from the easily-stolen votes at the grassroots and move it to the easily-counted, finite votes either in parliament or the senate or both, you kill vote stuffing. Remind me again: how old are you? I ask because if you were old enough, you would surely remember that this "un-riggable" system is exactly what we had prior to the 1992 general election. MPs would sit in a room and "elect" Moi back into office. Or have you forgotten that one of the "minimum constitutional reforms" demanded by the original FORD was direct presidential elections? Believe me my brother; we've been there and done that. Even Mayors used to be elected that way and we all remember what calibre of mayors it gave us...."I is the mayor, the rest are mere kajoras" kind of people. But if you are under 39 years of age, I will excuse you because it means you were not old enough to vote in 1992. Nonetheless, you surely remember the mayors, don't you? Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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the issue RAO has with the presidential system is.... IT DID NOT PUT HIM IN POWER. you can't blame a guy for trying to get something that will work his way! All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/7/2007 Posts: 11,935 Location: Nairobi
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mukiha wrote:McReggae wrote:It's impossible to rig a collegiate system. Say, every county gets one vote. The senators of those counties elect the president - No failed BVR machines, no recounts, simple parliamentary vote, done.You can't stuff the ballots When you have just 300 votes, you cannot have rigging. The objective is not to alter who is voted for, but to eliminate vote-stealing.. Once you remove election of the president from the easily-stolen votes at the grassroots and move it to the easily-counted, finite votes either in parliament or the senate or both, you kill vote stuffing. Remind me again: how old are you? I ask because if you were old enough, you would surely remember that this "un-riggable" system is exactly what we had prior to the 1992 general election. MPs would sit in a room and "elect" Moi back into office. Or have you forgotten that one of the "minimum constitutional reforms" demanded by the original FORD was direct presidential elections? Believe me my brother; we've been there and done that. Even Mayors used to be elected that way and we all remember what calibre of mayors it gave us...."I is the mayor, the rest are mere kajoras" kind of people. But if you are under 39 years of age, I will excuse you because it means you were not old enough to vote in 1992. Nonetheless, you surely remember the mayors, don't you?   Now,Raila may as well argue that he wants to undo what he has been doing since 1982.It's his work,right?  ....Someone remind him about the proverbial warthog. Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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mukiha wrote:McReggae wrote:It's impossible to rig a collegiate system. Say, every county gets one vote. The senators of those counties elect the president - No failed BVR machines, no recounts, simple parliamentary vote, done.You can't stuff the ballots When you have just 300 votes, you cannot have rigging. The objective is not to alter who is voted for, but to eliminate vote-stealing.. Once you remove election of the president from the easily-stolen votes at the grassroots and move it to the easily-counted, finite votes either in parliament or the senate or both, you kill vote stuffing. Remind me again: how old are you? I ask because if you were old enough, you would surely remember that this "un-riggable" system is exactly what we had prior to the 1992 general election. MPs would sit in a room and "elect" Moi back into office. Or have you forgotten that one of the "minimum constitutional reforms" demanded by the original FORD was direct presidential elections? Believe me my brother; we've been there and done that. Even Mayors used to be elected that way and we all remember what calibre of mayors it gave us...."I is the mayor, the rest are mere kajoras" kind of people. But if you are under 39 years of age, I will excuse you because it means you were not old enough to vote in 1992. Nonetheless, you surely remember the mayors, don't you? Eti we had a electoral college vote system before 1992.......wacha vangi mzee.....THAT WAS A ONE-PARTY STATE!!!!!! ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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The hypocrisy behind CORD's referendum call
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