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The hypocrisy behind CORD's referendum call
Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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Lolest! wrote:McReggae wrote:Lolest! wrote:@mcr, hiyo ya parliamentary sijui college. The other one for counties i might listen. Testing the waters!!! hope it's just that. Too much heat. Then ethnic tensions will def rise in such a referendum. Consequences of such a referendum would be worsening ethnic tension and probably worse than 2008 One thing about democratic systems is the freedom to sell ideas. It's not wrong or criminal for CORD to recommend or force a referendum. That's democracy for you. Jubilee should focus on delivering its pledges. Cord is doing what out- of-power political parties do: try to wrest power away. That's politics. ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/29/2011 Posts: 2,242
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McReggae wrote:[quote=Gathige]Whatever name they call it, any system that allows a select group of people to sit together and determine who becomes the President cannot fly. What is so hard for anybody who wants to be president going round all over the country and seek for votes? That is always so easily manipulated, and many mature democracies have phased it out!!!!![/quote] @McR, educate me on this: If we put all the Governors, Senators, mpigs and Women Reps and all the related appendages (Nominated, Special Interests) etc in a room to nominate a president for all of us, we would get better results that what 40+ million Kenyans would do via a direct election of a president? "Things that matter most must never be at the mercy of things that matter least." Goethe
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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Gathige wrote:McReggae wrote:[quote=Gathige]Whatever name they call it, any system that allows a select group of people to sit together and determine who becomes the President cannot fly. What is so hard for anybody who wants to be president going round all over the country and seek for votes? That is always so easily manipulated, and many mature democracies have phased it out!!!!![/quote] @McR, educate me on this: If we put all the Governors, Senators, mpigs and Women Reps and all the related appendages (Nominated, Special Interests) etc in a room to nominate a president for all of us, we would get better results that what 40+ million Kenyans would do via a direct election of a president? It's impossible to rig a collegiate system. Say, every county gets one vote. The senators of those counties elect the president - No failed BVR machines, no recounts, simple parliamentary vote, done.You can't stuff the ballots When you have just 300 votes, you cannot have rigging. The objective is not to alter who is voted for, but to eliminate vote-stealing.. Once you remove election of the president from the easily-stolen votes at the grassroots and move it to the easily-counted, finite votes either in parliament or the senate or both, you kill vote stuffing. ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/23/2008 Posts: 3,966
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McReggae wrote:Gathige wrote:McReggae wrote:[quote=Gathige]Whatever name they call it, any system that allows a select group of people to sit together and determine who becomes the President cannot fly. What is so hard for anybody who wants to be president going round all over the country and seek for votes? That is always so easily manipulated, and many mature democracies have phased it out!!!!![/quote] @McR, educate me on this: If we put all the Governors, Senators, mpigs and Women Reps and all the related appendages (Nominated, Special Interests) etc in a room to nominate a president for all of us, we would get better results that what 40+ million Kenyans would do via a direct election of a president? It's impossible to rig a collegiate system. Say, every county gets one vote. The senators of those counties elect the president - No failed BVR machines, no recounts, simple parliamentary vote, done.You can't stuff the ballots When you have just 300 votes, you cannot have rigging. The objective is not to alter who is voted for, but to eliminate vote-stealing.. Once you remove election of the president from the easily-stolen votes at the grassroots and move it to the easily-counted, finite votes either in parliament or the senate or both, you kill vote stuffing. What happens when the collegiate is bought out (nothing new in Kenya)? Isn't it worse? Luck is when Preparation meets Opportunity. ~ Lucius Annaeus Seneca
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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Jus Blazin wrote:McReggae wrote:Gathige wrote:McReggae wrote:[quote=Gathige]Whatever name they call it, any system that allows a select group of people to sit together and determine who becomes the President cannot fly. What is so hard for anybody who wants to be president going round all over the country and seek for votes? That is always so easily manipulated, and many mature democracies have phased it out!!!!![/quote] @McR, educate me on this: If we put all the Governors, Senators, mpigs and Women Reps and all the related appendages (Nominated, Special Interests) etc in a room to nominate a president for all of us, we would get better results that what 40+ million Kenyans would do via a direct election of a president? It's impossible to rig a collegiate system. Say, every county gets one vote. The senators of those counties elect the president - No failed BVR machines, no recounts, simple parliamentary vote, done.You can't stuff the ballots When you have just 300 votes, you cannot have rigging. The objective is not to alter who is voted for, but to eliminate vote-stealing.. Once you remove election of the president from the easily-stolen votes at the grassroots and move it to the easily-counted, finite votes either in parliament or the senate or both, you kill vote stuffing. What happens when the collegiate is bought out (nothing new in Kenya)? Isn't it worse? Based on the party of the collegiate, where he/she will vote is a given!!! ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/8/2013 Posts: 2,517
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Wazuans, Maybe Cord have a point which is getting lost in all the noise and ndrama.From Nguugle i also know they are confusing us. Now my question which no answers seem forthcoming 1. What is a pure presidential system? give examples 2. What is a pure parliamentary systems ? 3. What are the pros and Cons of each 3. The Mongrel we have that was fathered by both what is wrong with it (Tyranny?) How is this cured in a collegiate system 4. @McReggae usidanganywe : Collegiate sytems is Tyranny that has mathematically mutated. Just ask yourself how do americans allocate college vote between the States? From the responses am seeing here people need to do their homework! hakuna kitu kama college of senators going for elections hiyo ni upuzi  , Read what happens in America, when you win the popular vote in a state (Say-County for kenya) unabeba al the College Votes of that state.... McReggae wrote:Gathige wrote:McReggae wrote:[quote=Gathige]Whatever name they call it, any system that allows a select group of people to sit together and determine who becomes the President cannot fly. What is so hard for anybody who wants to be president going round all over the country and seek for votes? That is always so easily manipulated, and many mature democracies have phased it out!!!!![/quote] @McR, educate me on this: If we put all the Governors, Senators, mpigs and Women Reps and all the related appendages (Nominated, Special Interests) etc in a room to nominate a president for all of us, we would get better results that what 40+ million Kenyans would do via a direct election of a president? It's impossible to rig a collegiate system. Say, every county gets one vote. The senators of those counties elect the president - No failed BVR machines, no recounts, simple parliamentary vote, done.You can't stuff the ballots When you have just 300 votes, you cannot have rigging. The objective is not to alter who is voted for, but to eliminate vote-stealing.. Once you remove election of the president from the easily-stolen votes at the grassroots and move it to the easily-counted, finite votes either in parliament or the senate or both, you kill vote stuffing. "😖😡KQ makes money for everyone except the shareholder 😏😏 " overheard in Wazua
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Cord never won the last polls. There's no way you can rig 800k votes. If we were parliamentary, cord would have lost too. So the college story will not make it better for them. It will only make people vote junkies in the name of party loyalty. Fellows like Mpuru Aburi wouldn't make it. You would just go and check whose flying your coalition colours for all 6 seats and vote for them because they determine the presidency. If this thing ever comes up in a referendum, I will gladly vote NO:
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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@Siringi...read my comments above is response to @Lolest's earlier post!!! ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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Lolest! wrote:Cord never won the last polls. There's no way you can rig 800k votes. If we were parliamentary, cord would have lost too. So the college story will not make it better for them. It will only make people vote junkies in the name of party loyalty. Fellows like Mpuru Aburi wouldn't make it. You would just go and check whose flying your coalition colours for all 6 seats and vote for them because they determine the presidency. If this thing ever comes up in a referendum, I will gladly vote NO:  Now you are talking, that is your right as a citizen.......is this thread on analysis of the March 4th elections....because many of you are talking more about March 4th than on the proposal!!! ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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The reason why the drafters made National Assembly stronger than senate is coz it is the closest to 1man 1vote system. It is not perfectly proportional as sparsely populated areas still get fewer constituents per MP but it does give a good rough image of representation. Now this electoral college system will disenfranchise voters.
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The hypocrisy behind CORD's referendum call
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