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please advise:~ (car experts)
mpobiz
#1 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2013 6:01:38 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/10/2010
Posts: 2,264
I recently bought a set of second hand heavy duty springs at a very low price .no money to buy heavy duty shoks.
I want fit robs magik heavy duty coil springs and mount them using ordinary shock absobers. Is that ok or what kind of problems can I expect now or in the future? The car is a Prado
Politics is just things to keep the people divided and foolish and put your trust in men and none of them can do nothing for you...
sitaki.kujulikana
#2 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2013 8:19:38 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/25/2012
Posts: 1,826
sell the prado
Punda Mlia
#3 Posted : Tuesday, July 23, 2013 5:29:22 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 7/12/2013
Posts: 28
Location: Nairobi
mpobiz wrote:
I recently bought a set of second hand heavy duty springs at a very low price .no money to buy heavy duty shoks.
I want fit robs magik heavy duty coil springs and mount them using ordinary shock absobers. Is that ok or what kind of problems can I expect now or in the future? The car is a Prado


Ofcourse it is ok. You just have to be sure about the load carrying specifications and quality of the ordinary shocks you want to use. Most wont last long. But how long they will last also depends on the roads you shall be driving on, how much you load/overload the car and your driving style. What Prado series is it? 90 or 120? I can advice on technical specifications of the front & back suspension system.
quicksand
#4 Posted : Tuesday, July 23, 2013 7:28:22 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/5/2010
Posts: 2,061
Location: Nairobi
mpobiz wrote:
I recently bought a set of second hand heavy duty springs at a very low price .no money to buy heavy duty shoks.
I want fit robs magik heavy duty coil springs and mount them using ordinary shock absobers. Is that ok or what kind of problems can I expect now or in the future? The car is a Prado

You will have a hard ride and the shocks will wear out faster ...
The first thing they told me when I went to replace my shocks is that I also need to replace the springs,..ati the factory ones are not suited for Africa. I was suspicious that this is BS they tell people so that you fork out tens of thousands of shillings for new springs when the factory springs are perfectly fit for purpose. Ati not fit for Africa! I had carried five people into rough gicagi roads and they functioned perfectly, the wheels didn't touch the housing or anything like that.
Anyway, to shut the dude up, I started going at him with technical questions, like the tensile strengths of the 'heavy duty springs' vis a vis the factory ones. To end the argument, we set both springs in some machine and compressed them to get the readings. Guess what, the difference was negligible, and the factory spring spread back to its normal length much faster than the after market one.
They have never tried to sell me springs again.

Punda Mlia
#5 Posted : Tuesday, July 23, 2013 12:09:50 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 7/12/2013
Posts: 28
Location: Nairobi
That's the nonsense. I was even surprised to see JM Baraza (a motoring) expert saying that imported land cruisers are not built for Africa. When a land cruiser is built, it is built as an OFF ROAD vehicle whether it is delivered to Europe, Russia or Africa. Kwani wanafikiria hakuna vichaka or rugged terrain in Europe? Most equipment are standard. There are some changes Toyota makes to some markets in line with say emission regulations, client preferences in that market etc. But they never compromise on the vehicles ability off road.

When you import a vehicle, just ensure you immediately service it. If it is from Europe/Japan, it may have lower viscosity i.e. SAE 5w 30. Coolant may contain higher levels anti-freeze - you may have to flash the radiator too and use normal coolant 33% concentration. Forget about changing shocks/springs unless you want to participate in Rhino Charge.
Rankaz13
#6 Posted : Tuesday, July 23, 2013 1:05:26 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/21/2013
Posts: 2,841
Location: Here
Punda Mlia wrote:
That's the nonsense. I was even surprised to see JM Baraza (a motoring) expert saying that imported land cruisers are not built for Africa. When a land cruiser is built, it is built as an OFF ROAD vehicle whether it is delivered to Europe, Russia or Africa. Kwani wanafikiria hakuna vichaka or rugged terrain in Europe? Most equipment are standard. There are some changes Toyota makes to some markets in line with say emission regulations, client preferences in that market etc. But they never compromise on the vehicles ability off road.

When you import a vehicle, just ensure you immediately service it. If it is from Europe/Japan, it may have lower viscosity i.e. SAE 5w 30. Coolant may contain higher levels anti-freeze - you may have to flash the radiator too and use normal coolant 33% concentration. Forget about changing shocks/springs unless you want to participate in Rhino Charge.


Applause Applause spot on! Perhaps the major thing one should worry most is the quality of fuel we have locally, in terms of octane rating, etc. some of the newer engines are a bit delicate in that respect. Recently I also read of Gavin Bennett arguing that modern-day in-car electronics has rendered the need for 'tropicalization' redundant.
Life is like playing a violin solo in public and learning the instrument as one goes on.
JkMwatha
#7 Posted : Tuesday, July 23, 2013 1:24:14 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/11/2007
Posts: 816
quicksand wrote:
....
The first thing they told me when I went to replace my shocks is that I also need to replace the springs,..ati the factory ones are not suited for Africa. I was suspicious that this is BS they tell people so that you fork out tens of thousands of shillings for new springs when the factory springs are perfectly fit for purpose. Ati not fit for Africa! I had carried five people into rough gicagi roads and they functioned perfectly, the wheels didn't touch the housing or anything like that.
Anyway, to shut the dude up, I started going at him with technical questions, like the tensile strengths of the 'heavy duty springs' vis a vis the factory ones. To end the argument, we set both springs in some machine and compressed them to get the readings. Guess what, the difference was negligible, and the factory spring spread back to its normal length much faster than the after market one.
They have never tried to sell me springs again.



@quicksand - nice one.

Punda Mlia wrote:
That's the nonsense.....

When a land cruiser is built, it is built as an OFF ROAD vehicle whether it is delivered to Europe, Russia or Africa. Kwani wanafikiria hakuna vichaka or rugged terrain in Europe? Most equipment are standard. There are some changes Toyota makes to some markets in line with say emission regulations, client preferences in that market etc. But they never compromise on the vehicles ability off road.

When you import a vehicle, just ensure you immediately service it. If it is from Europe/Japan,...........
.... Forget about changing shocks/springs unless you want to participate in Rhino Charge.



@ PM - I totally agree.
jaggernaut
#8 Posted : Tuesday, July 23, 2013 1:39:55 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/9/2008
Posts: 5,389
I don't understand this tropicalization thing. During the summer, in Europe/Japan they have very high temperatures sometimes even over 35 degrees C, temperatures higher than we ever get in Nairobi. I thought that the engine would therefore comfortably operate in Nairobi where the temperatures rarely go beyond 27 degrees C and 10 degrees on the lower side. I also dont think that the temperature of a running engine varies whether you are in Africa or europe, since the fuel combusts at the same temperature.
AlphDoti
#9 Posted : Tuesday, July 23, 2013 2:35:15 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,274
Location: Kenya
jaggernaut wrote:
I don't understand this tropicalization thing. During the summer, in Europe/Japan they have very high temperatures sometimes even over 35 degrees C, temperatures higher than we ever get in Nairobi. I thought that the engine would therefore comfortably operate in Nairobi where the temperatures rarely go beyond 27 degrees C and 10 degrees on the lower side. I also dont think that the temperature of a running engine varies whether you are in Africa or europe, since the fuel combusts at the same temperature.

@jaggernaut something is not put in a car for no reason. And designs are not done for the fun of it. Believe me a lot of reasearch go into an invention, and before car manufacturer says this is fit for tropics and that is fit for winter areas like Russia.

So, for your information, there is something called thermostat. There is also something called "cold start" for diesel engines.

ALl these have functions dependind on where th car will be used.

So, you're right, you don't need the termostat in hot areas.
Outvestor
#10 Posted : Tuesday, July 23, 2013 3:36:52 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/8/2009
Posts: 171
Rankaz13 wrote:
Recently I also read of Gavin Bennett arguing that modern-day in-car electronics has rendered the need for 'tropicalization' redundant.


Link to the exact article
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sitaki.kujulikana
#11 Posted : Tuesday, July 23, 2013 3:49:49 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/25/2012
Posts: 1,826
Punda Mlia wrote:
That's the nonsense. I was even surprised to see JM Baraza (a motoring) expert saying that imported land cruisers are not built for Africa. When a land cruiser is built, it is built as an OFF ROAD vehicle whether it is delivered to Europe, Russia or Africa. Kwani wanafikiria hakuna vichaka or rugged terrain in Europe? Most equipment are standard. There are some changes Toyota makes to some markets in line with say emission regulations, client preferences in that market etc. But they never compromise on the vehicles ability off road.

When you import a vehicle, just ensure you immediately service it. If it is from Europe/Japan, it may have lower viscosity i.e. SAE 5w 30. Coolant may contain higher levels anti-freeze - you may have to flash the radiator too and use normal coolant 33% concentration. Forget about changing shocks/springs unless you want to participate in Rhino Charge.

if you don't mind the intricacies of navigating the bumps on kenyan roads, some are inclined at very steep angles and you might just call for help when your car get stuck on a bump.
Punda Mlia
#12 Posted : Tuesday, July 23, 2013 4:42:27 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 7/12/2013
Posts: 28
Location: Nairobi
jaggernaut wrote:
I don't understand this tropicalization thing. During the summer, in Europe/Japan they have very high temperatures sometimes even over 35 degrees C, temperatures higher than we ever get in Nairobi. I thought that the engine would therefore comfortably operate in Nairobi where the temperatures rarely go beyond 27 degrees C and 10 degrees on the lower side. I also dont think that the temperature of a running engine varies whether you are in Africa or europe, since the fuel combusts at the same temperature.



To some extent you are right but unless you have full service history of the vehicle you are purchasing there is no way of knowing what engine oil is in there. In tropical areas multi grade oil such as SAE 15W 40 is perfect. This means it can operate comfortably between 15 - 40 deg c. You may find the oil in the imported car may be SAE 0W 30, 10W 30 or even monograde such as SAE 20 or 30.
mpobiz
#13 Posted : Wednesday, July 24, 2013 2:26:31 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/10/2010
Posts: 2,264
JkMwatha wrote:
quicksand wrote:
....
The first thing they told me when I went to replace my shocks is that I also need to replace the springs,..ati the factory ones are not suited for Africa. I was suspicious that this is BS they tell people so that you fork out tens of thousands of shillings for new springs when the factory springs are perfectly fit for purpose. Ati not fit for Africa! I had carried five people into rough gicagi roads and they functioned perfectly, the wheels didn't touch the housing or anything like that.
Anyway, to shut the dude up, I started going at him with technical questions, like the tensile strengths of the 'heavy duty springs' vis a vis the factory ones. To end the argument, we set both springs in some machine and compressed them to get the readings. Guess what, the difference was negligible, and the factory spring spread back to its normal length much faster than the after market one.
They have never tried to sell me springs again.



@quicksand - nice one.

Punda Mlia wrote:
That's the nonsense.....

When a land cruiser is built, it is built as an OFF ROAD vehicle whether it is delivered to Europe, Russia or Africa. Kwani wanafikiria hakuna vichaka or rugged terrain in Europe? Most equipment are standard. There are some changes Toyota makes to some markets in line with say emission regulations, client preferences in that market etc. But they never compromise on the vehicles ability off road.

When you import a vehicle, just ensure you immediately service it. If it is from Europe/Japan,...........
.... Forget about changing shocks/springs unless you want to participate in Rhino Charge.



@ PM - I totally agree.


I appreciate everyone s input .
I see there is no need to replace my original springs. But if I decide to change questions arise about the rise in ground clearance provided by the heavy duty springs. (normally 2 to 3 inches)
@quicksand how do this springs achieve this If their tensile strength compared to the factory ones is negligible?
Does the factory shocks fit well with this new height
Politics is just things to keep the people divided and foolish and put your trust in men and none of them can do nothing for you...
quicksand
#14 Posted : Wednesday, July 24, 2013 7:45:43 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/5/2010
Posts: 2,061
Location: Nairobi
@mpobiz,..In my case, I did not want the ride height to change (stability and cornering concerns), so the spring had about the same number of loops as the one in the car already, also had a larger diameter. It was a Kings springs or something like that. Sometimes that increase in height is brought about by the spring going on by one loop or half a loop more than the factory spring.
All in all, circumstances differ (different cars, different spring brands, driving conditions), in my case, I found a focused salesman intending to bluster me into buying something I did not need.
I would say that if you carry more weight than average (5 passengers + luggage) in more than 50% of your commute, and 50+% or therebouts of driving is on non-tarmacked roads, there is a case for stiff springs, otherwise factory springs are good for 5 passengers (or less) on tarmac driving and occasional offroad driving; hence spending 50 to 60K on springs is unnecessary.
Punda Mlia
#15 Posted : Wednesday, July 24, 2013 6:24:18 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 7/12/2013
Posts: 28
Location: Nairobi
Rankaz13 wrote:
Punda Mlia wrote:
That's the nonsense. I was even surprised to see JM Baraza (a motoring) expert saying that imported land cruisers are not built for Africa. When a land cruiser is built, it is built as an OFF ROAD vehicle whether it is delivered to Europe, Russia or Africa. Kwani wanafikiria hakuna vichaka or rugged terrain in Europe? Most equipment are standard. There are some changes Toyota makes to some markets in line with say emission regulations, client preferences in that market etc. But they never compromise on the vehicles ability off road.

When you import a vehicle, just ensure you immediately service it. If it is from Europe/Japan, it may have lower viscosity i.e. SAE 5w 30. Coolant may contain higher levels anti-freeze - you may have to flash the radiator too and use normal coolant 33% concentration. Forget about changing shocks/springs unless you want to participate in Rhino Charge.


Applause Applause spot on! Perhaps the major thing one should worry most is the quality of fuel we have locally, in terms of octane rating, etc. some of the newer engines are a bit delicate in that respect. Recently I also read of Gavin Bennett arguing that modern-day in-car electronics has rendered the need for 'tropicalization' redundant.



Thanks for sharing Bennett's article, he is one motoring writer I respect most. Prado's especially the 3.0L 1KDFTV (common rail) engine is sensitive to fuel quality. Can mess those injectors big time. They are designed to run on minimum 48 octane rating Gasoil (diesel) of about 50ppm sulphur content. UK standard minimum octane rating is 51 (safety of 3 points). This makes the fuel burn cleaner as combustion is efficient. In Kenya its difficult to guarantee quality from depot to station. Most fuel station underground fuel storage tanks have some water. To protect the engine, in Kenya, regularly inspect & replace your fuel filters. You could also use some fuel additives to boost octane rating atleast to 51. You may also want to consider adding an additional fuel filter along the fuel line. Its cheaper than having to replace your injectors! d'oh!
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