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State of Poverty in Kenya
InnovateGuy
#1 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2013 11:20:09 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/15/2012
Posts: 1,110
Even as the digital government settles down to work, they should not lose sight of the challenges that face this country. There is so much do do especially with regards to eradicating poverty. In one incident which is likely to draw discussion, Micah Cheserem was moved to tears after coming "face to face" with the poverty in Kitui County. Learners there travel 14 Km to a school which is in shambles. The school has two teachers only.

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Live Full Die Empty - Les Brown.
Wakanyugi
#2 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2013 12:52:11 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
The most important policy that Uhuruto can implement, according to me, is the one of direct social resource transfer to the poor. If they do only this I will rate their government a success.

Unfortunately it odes not seem to feature as a priority.

Ruto says that they hope to increase the number of people and amounts that government transfers to the poor but only, if they can find the money.

In my opinion this should be a guaranteed item on the budget, before paying salaries or building half a billion shilling offices for retired geezers.

It makes economic sense too.

Imagine if those poor families in Kitui were guaranteed a regular income. They would spend and build local economies. The dignity gained would encourage people to try new things, take more risks to build the income of their families.

The country will benefit.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
wanyee
#3 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2013 1:21:33 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/17/2011
Posts: 627
Location: Mbui-Nzau, Kikumbulyu
The key would be to establish agricultural based -commodity trading societies ../ communities ...create meaning livelihood chains run on knowledge(ICT) ..gainfull on commerce and built on values like green energy, waste recycling ..ethics bla bla bla ...
radio
#4 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2013 1:49:29 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/9/2009
Posts: 2,003
Wakanyugi wrote:
The most important policy that Uhuruto can implement, according to me, is the one of direct social resource transfer to the poor. If they do only this I will rate their government a success.

Unfortunately it odes not seem to feature as a priority.

Ruto says that they hope to increase the number of people and amounts that government transfers to the poor but only, if they can find the money.

In my opinion this should be a guaranteed item on the budget, before paying salaries or building half a billion shilling offices for retired geezers.

It makes economic sense too.

Imagine if those poor families in Kitui were guaranteed a regular income. They would spend and build local economies. The dignity gained would encourage people to try new things, take more risks to build the income of their families.

The country will benefit.


Devolution? County governments?
chepkel
#5 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2013 1:52:49 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/6/2010
Posts: 741
Location: Nairobi
And thus the concept of devolution and county Governments. Through out History the central Government has always left out many places and only developing a few interest areas. However, with proper execution of the devolved system, each county can develop its areas according to the specific needs of the area.

If these Governors could prioritize development over wages then this country can really go far. Nevertheless, and as per the example of the Central Government, County government is becoming another avenue for nepotism, corruption and wastage.

God Help us All!!!
wa P
#6 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2013 4:32:27 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 326
Location: Nairobi
There is a program called 'Lighting Africa' by IFC; they did a survey; 70% of Kenyans off electricity grid rely on kerosene for lighting and 'outsource' mobile phone charging... at annual cost of about 18k per household.

A good way to transfer resources to the poor, is to STOP the unnecessary hemorrhage of meager resources by introducing and investing in renewable energy.
Wakanyugi
#7 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2013 4:36:48 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
chepkel wrote:
Nevertheless, and as per the example of the Central Government, County government is becoming another avenue for nepotism, corruption and wastage.

God Help us All!!!


This is my worry too. Devolution is good but we seem to have started by devolving the same corruption, greed and insensitivity to the plight of the poor that is the hall mark of central government.

Also devolution is a long term project, one that will take at least a generation before Kenya can begin to see real benefits.

On the other hand the kind of poverty Cheserem witnessed is here and now. Our lasting shame is that we have become so comfortable with such diprivation that we hardly notice.

Here is my deal: In this day and age it should be possible for Government to guarantee every senior citizen, single mother, poor man, orphaned child etc who needs it, a small income transmitted directly to them every month at minimal transaction cost.

Such redistribution of wealth will do more for our country than even devolution can.I'll happily pay more tax towards such an end.

Ruto and Uhuru call themselves digital. They should make it happen.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
tycho
#8 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2013 4:52:34 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Wakanyugi wrote:
chepkel wrote:
Nevertheless, and as per the example of the Central Government, County government is becoming another avenue for nepotism, corruption and wastage.

God Help us All!!!


This is my worry too. Devolution is good but we seem to have started by devolving the same corruption, greed and insensitivity to the plight of the poor that is the hall mark of central government.

Also devolution is a long term project, one that will take at least a generation before Kenya can begin to see real benefits.

On the other hand the kind of poverty Cheserem witnessed is here and now. Our lasting shame is that we have become so comfortable with such diprivation that we hardly notice.

Here is my deal: In this day and age it should be possible for Government to guarantee every senior citizen, single mother, poor man, orphaned child etc who needs it, a small income transmitted directly to them every month at minimal transaction cost.

Such redistribution of wealth will do more for our country than even devolution can.I'll happily pay more tax towards such an end.

Ruto and Uhuru call themselves digital. They should make it happen.


The government can't guarantee an income. But it can educate, encourage and protect the citizen to flourish.

The market is too complex for such direct intervention.

But a change in our core ideas and values can do the magic.
Wakanyugi
#9 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2013 5:50:14 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
tycho wrote:

The government can't guarantee an income. But it can educate, encourage and protect the citizen to flourish.


Not for everyone, certainly. But for those unable to take care of themselves, the government can and should guarantee an income.

The basis of responsible government (not capitalism) is that those who can have an obligation to help those who can't. It is the government's job to mediate that process.

The Capitalist west did not change from the Industrial revolution. It changed when they invented welfare.

Of course you will hear the argument that there is no money.

To that I say 'Nonsense!'
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
tycho
#10 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2013 6:11:48 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Wakanyugi wrote:
tycho wrote:

The government can't guarantee an income. But it can educate, encourage and protect the citizen to flourish.


Not for everyone, certainly. But for those unable to take care of themselves, the government can and should guarantee an income.

The basis of responsible government (not capitalism) is that those who can have an obligation to help those who can't. It is the government's job to mediate that process.

The Capitalist west did not change from the Industrial revolution. It changed when they invented welfare.

Of course you will hear the argument that there is no money.

To that I say 'Nonsense!'


How do we determine 'those who can't help themselves'? How many can't help themselves? How did they get to such a condition?

Why and how is giving them money a solution. Certainly lack of money is lack of markets, and isn't nonsense.
InnovateGuy
#11 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2013 6:28:33 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/15/2012
Posts: 1,110
wa P wrote:
There is a program called 'Lighting Africa' by IFC; they did a survey; 70% of Kenyans off electricity grid rely on kerosene for lighting and 'outsource' mobile phone charging... at annual cost of about 18k per household.

A good way to transfer resources to the poor, is to STOP the unnecessary hemorrhage of meager resources by introducing and investing in renewable energy.



Don't forget that some households are so poor such that they can't even afford mobile phones. They can only rely on small-arable farming to earn their livelihood. These are the same places rainfall failure is above 70 %. Apart from working on their fields, the people can also get menial jobs with meagre pay. The end result is that Poverty is a cycle that has kept on repeating itself. It's like a 'rat-race'.
Live Full Die Empty - Les Brown.
InnovateGuy
#12 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2013 6:33:07 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/15/2012
Posts: 1,110
Wakanyugi wrote:
chepkel wrote:
Nevertheless, and as per the example of the Central Government, County government is becoming another avenue for nepotism, corruption and wastage.

God Help us All!!!


This is my worry too. Devolution is good but we seem to have started by devolving the same corruption, greed and insensitivity to the plight of the poor that is the hall mark of central government.

Also devolution is a long term project, one that will take at least a generation before Kenya can begin to see real benefits.

On the other hand the kind of poverty Cheserem witnessed is here and now. Our lasting shame is that we have become so comfortable with such diprivation that we hardly notice.

Here is my deal: In this day and age it should be possible for Government to guarantee every senior citizen, single mother, poor man, orphaned child etc who needs it, a small income transmitted directly to them every month at minimal transaction cost.

Such redistribution of wealth will do more for our country than even devolution can.I'll happily pay more tax towards such an end.

Ruto and Uhuru call themselves digital. They should make it happen.


These ideas have been flouted around many times before. It's true that they have the capacity to help the target groups when performed effectively. But, this a country with a culture of embezzling public funds.
Live Full Die Empty - Les Brown.
InnovateGuy
#13 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2013 6:39:20 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/15/2012
Posts: 1,110
tycho wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
chepkel wrote:
Nevertheless, and as per the example of the Central Government, County government is becoming another avenue for nepotism, corruption and wastage.

God Help us All!!!


This is my worry too. Devolution is good but we seem to have started by devolving the same corruption, greed and insensitivity to the plight of the poor that is the hall mark of central government.

Also devolution is a long term project, one that will take at least a generation before Kenya can begin to see real benefits.

On the other hand the kind of poverty Cheserem witnessed is here and now. Our lasting shame is that we have become so comfortable with such diprivation that we hardly notice.

Here is my deal: In this day and age it should be possible for Government to guarantee every senior citizen, single mother, poor man, orphaned child etc who needs it, a small income transmitted directly to them every month at minimal transaction cost.

Such redistribution of wealth will do more for our country than even devolution can.I'll happily pay more tax towards such an end.

Ruto and Uhuru call themselves digital. They should make it happen.


The government can't guarantee an income. But it can educate, encourage and protect the citizen to flourish.

The market is too complex for such direct intervention.

But a change in our core ideas and values can do the magic.


This may work in the long run. But it may also fall flat. A change in cultural shift may not be entertained. It may instill fear and resistance hence 'antagonize' some people.The results won't be nice in such a scenario.
Live Full Die Empty - Les Brown.
tycho
#14 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2013 7:41:14 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
InnovateGuy wrote:
tycho wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
chepkel wrote:
Nevertheless, and as per the example of the Central Government, County government is becoming another avenue for nepotism, corruption and wastage.

God Help us All!!!


This is my worry too. Devolution is good but we seem to have started by devolving the same corruption, greed and insensitivity to the plight of the poor that is the hall mark of central government.

Also devolution is a long term project, one that will take at least a generation before Kenya can begin to see real benefits.

On the other hand the kind of poverty Cheserem witnessed is here and now. Our lasting shame is that we have become so comfortable with such diprivation that we hardly notice.

Here is my deal: In this day and age it should be possible for Government to guarantee every senior citizen, single mother, poor man, orphaned child etc who needs it, a small income transmitted directly to them every month at minimal transaction cost.

Such redistribution of wealth will do more for our country than even devolution can.I'll happily pay more tax towards such an end.

Ruto and Uhuru call themselves digital. They should make it happen.


The government can't guarantee an income. But it can educate, encourage and protect the citizen to flourish.

The market is too complex for such direct intervention.

But a change in our core ideas and values can do the magic.


This may work in the long run. But it may also fall flat. A change in cultural shift may not be entertained. It may instill fear and resistance hence 'antagonize' some people.The results won't be nice in such a scenario.


Change of values may indeed antagonize some interests. And indeed the law of inertia guarantees resistance. But this is a fact to be embraced and resolved by design and tact.

The most important question is whether there are individuals who are able to design and implement the required changes, and whether there exists a means of realizing the changes.

In our case social entrepreneurship and the use of ICT are more likely to succeed than other strategies.

Markets should be widened and information shared quickly and 'comprehensively', communal strategies for creating capital should be found and run by entrepreneurs.



InnovateGuy
#15 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2013 8:03:11 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/15/2012
Posts: 1,110
tycho wrote:
InnovateGuy wrote:
tycho wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
chepkel wrote:
Nevertheless, and as per the example of the Central Government, County government is becoming another avenue for nepotism, corruption and wastage.

God Help us All!!!


This is my worry too. Devolution is good but we seem to have started by devolving the same corruption, greed and insensitivity to the plight of the poor that is the hall mark of central government.

Also devolution is a long term project, one that will take at least a generation before Kenya can begin to see real benefits.

On the other hand the kind of poverty Cheserem witnessed is here and now. Our lasting shame is that we have become so comfortable with such diprivation that we hardly notice.

Here is my deal: In this day and age it should be possible for Government to guarantee every senior citizen, single mother, poor man, orphaned child etc who needs it, a small income transmitted directly to them every month at minimal transaction cost.

Such redistribution of wealth will do more for our country than even devolution can.I'll happily pay more tax towards such an end.

Ruto and Uhuru call themselves digital. They should make it happen.


The government can't guarantee an income. But it can educate, encourage and protect the citizen to flourish.

The market is too complex for such direct intervention.

But a change in our core ideas and values can do the magic.


This may work in the long run. But it may also fall flat. A change in cultural shift may not be entertained. It may instill fear and resistance hence 'antagonize' some people.The results won't be nice in such a scenario.


Change of values may indeed antagonize some interests. And indeed the law of inertia guarantees resistance. But this is a fact to be embraced and resolved by design and tact.

The most important question is whether there are individuals who are able to design and implement the required changes, and whether there exists a means of realizing the changes.

In our case social entrepreneurship and the use of ICT are more likely to succeed than other strategies.

Markets should be widened and information shared quickly and 'comprehensively', communal strategies for creating capital should be found and run by entrepreneurs
.

Are you up to the challenge? It may win you a Nobel Peace Prize. smile




Live Full Die Empty - Les Brown.
murchr
#16 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2013 8:14:03 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Wakanyugi wrote:
tycho wrote:

The government can't guarantee an income. But it can educate, encourage and protect the citizen to flourish.


Not for everyone, certainly. But for those unable to take care of themselves, the government can and should guarantee an income.

The basis of responsible government (not capitalism) is that those who can have an obligation to help those who can't. It is the government's job to mediate that process.

The Capitalist west did not change from the Industrial revolution. It changed when they invented welfare.

Of course you will hear the argument that there is no money.

To that I say 'Nonsense!'


Welfare/handouts do more damage than good..they create a culture of dependency, why work harder while the check is in the mail?

The govt should provide the very basic. Infrastructure, Schs and health facilities. The rest will fall in place. The only people who may get a check are the seniors the over 65.

Industries such as leather turning and farming activities such as aloe vera growing, sisal farming should be encouraged there's so much potential. I watched a follow up on Kenya4Kenya Turkana in the news and I must confess I was really encouraged. The scenes we are used to seeing are all gone. The county govt pledged to continue with the effort.

Now on leadership..Kaloozer will never be the change needed in that area
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
tycho
#17 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2013 8:20:23 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
InnovateGuy wrote:
tycho wrote:
InnovateGuy wrote:
tycho wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
chepkel wrote:
Nevertheless, and as per the example of the Central Government, County government is becoming another avenue for nepotism, corruption and wastage.

God Help us All!!!


This is my worry too. Devolution is good but we seem to have started by devolving the same corruption, greed and insensitivity to the plight of the poor that is the hall mark of central government.

Also devolution is a long term project, one that will take at least a generation before Kenya can begin to see real benefits.

On the other hand the kind of poverty Cheserem witnessed is here and now. Our lasting shame is that we have become so comfortable with such diprivation that we hardly notice.

Here is my deal: In this day and age it should be possible for Government to guarantee every senior citizen, single mother, poor man, orphaned child etc who needs it, a small income transmitted directly to them every month at minimal transaction cost.

Such redistribution of wealth will do more for our country than even devolution can.I'll happily pay more tax towards such an end.

Ruto and Uhuru call themselves digital. They should make it happen.


The government can't guarantee an income. But it can educate, encourage and protect the citizen to flourish.

The market is too complex for such direct intervention.

But a change in our core ideas and values can do the magic.


This may work in the long run. But it may also fall flat. A change in cultural shift may not be entertained. It may instill fear and resistance hence 'antagonize' some people.The results won't be nice in such a scenario.


Change of values may indeed antagonize some interests. And indeed the law of inertia guarantees resistance. But this is a fact to be embraced and resolved by design and tact.

The most important question is whether there are individuals who are able to design and implement the required changes, and whether there exists a means of realizing the changes.

In our case social entrepreneurship and the use of ICT are more likely to succeed than other strategies.

Markets should be widened and information shared quickly and 'comprehensively', communal strategies for creating capital should be found and run by entrepreneurs
.

Are you up to the challenge? It may win you a Nobel Peace Prize. smile






I'm at the battlefront. If we win, we may just share the Nobel.
newfarer
#18 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2013 8:25:32 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/19/2010
Posts: 3,504
Location: Uganda
I feel alot of pain when I see my agemates wasting at the village.poverty is a big issue in this country.the youth have turned to cheap brew just to escape this misery.
kitui county is siting on large deposits of the highest quality coal on earth.why are the people poor while they are sitting on this gold?
kitui also receives much more rain than Israel per annum why are people still hungry?
there are large tracts of underutilised land why is mwolyo still pronounced in the region.
Poor leadership.much talk no action.
I blame the government and in particular local leaders in national leadership .
punda amecheka
Rankaz13
#19 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2013 9:22:58 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/21/2013
Posts: 2,841
Location: Here
Over the course of my duties, I have had an opportunity to travel widely in all the counties that make the greater Ukambani (Machakos, Kitui and Makueni) or Eastern south as it is sometimes called. Some of what I have come across is indeed enough to make a grown man shed tears, I know I have and I won't deny it.

Sometime last year, I remember travelling around the areas of Makindu, Kibwezi, Makueni, Machakos, Kathonzweni and surrounding areas and honestly these guys need all the help they can get. I recall it had rained a few weeks prior and the one thing that struck me was they had actually tilled the land, wakapanda chakula and then the rains, as they are wont to, failed. And I remember asking myself, seriously, hii river tana that has flowed since eternity, what would it take to harness even a fraction of that water for irrigation purposes?

The one thing I noticed about them is that they are extremely hard working people and I dare say this: they do not need gov't handouts, convinced as some of us are about the same. Give these guys water for irrigation and watch them impress you with the level of hard work they're ready to put in to get the harvest. These guys are some of the hardest working Kenyans I ever met and honestly, our gov't has failed them big time!!

Over in Kitui, Mwingi, Muthale, Mutomo, etc areas, the story is replicated all over. But here I noticed one more thing: girls drop out of school very early. And so I sought to know why. Apparently, due to resource constraints, some of the families prioritize education of boys while girls remain at home to assist with household chores such as fetching water, etc. What this means is that a significant no. of girls begin their education late and it is not uncommon to find a 16yr old in class 7 or 8. Of course with all the challenges of puberty, the raging hormones and attendant teenage rebellion, not to forget constant ridicule by some of their younger colleagues, most drop out and get married shortly and thus we end up with a situation where subsequent generations end up being poorer than the preceding ones. All because of what? I have always maintained that what Ukambani needs, over and above all else, is water period. Whoever gives them water will be assured of my vote in perpetuity.

Flashback to the mid 2000s. At the time I worked in a part of coast that was in the midst of a major famine. Funny thing is, whenever I went to the local markets there actually was always food. Then it hit me: the famine was not because of lack of food, this was there in plenty. The problem actually was that the bulk of the population was unable to afford the food that was there. In other words, low household incomes was the problem.

In all these cases, and many others I'm sure, provision of relief food and other handouts isn't really a solution. What our people need is, first and foremost, water for irrigation na hizo vitu zingine zitajileta tu. Yaani something as basic as this can easily set an entire region so much far backward and ends up affecting even education as well as health care. After all, a child who spends most of his/her time looking for water doesn't have much time for school and at the same time, poor nutrition is never far behind, and this has implications on general well being as well as productivity.

There's no way this country will ever move forward as long as we take our agricultural productivity for granted. There surely must be a reason why the developed world, including Japan and Russia, hold farm/agricultural subsidies as sacrosanct. They recognize the value of agriculture in so far as their entire economies are concerned. After all, the agrarian revolution preceded the industrial revolution.

Over to Kenya, what do we have? Millions of our youth roam our streets in the ever elusive job search yet thousands upon thousands of acres of land in some of their rural areas lie fallow. Misplaced priorities? You be the judge.
Life is like playing a violin solo in public and learning the instrument as one goes on.
Wakanyugi
#20 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2013 10:27:58 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
murchr wrote:

Welfare/handouts do more damage than good..they create a culture of dependency, why work harder while the check is in the mail?


Do you have evidence to back this statement? If you do, please share. And please not the conservative crap peddled by Republicans in the US, even as their members gorge at the Welfare trough.

On the other hand there is plenty of evidence to show that Welfare makes good economic and social sense, not to mention it is politically popular.

To wit: Barrack Obama is about to save the American economy, largely through massive stimulant packages. Guess how he is moving most of that money through the economy? Welfare payments.

Recently the British were asked to name the single most important government program to date. Every one expected Health Care to be the most favored by far. Welfare.

Economists have known for a long time that the poor have a higher propensity to consume than the rich. Give a poor guy a hundred shillings and he is likely to spend almost all of it on consumption goods and services, thus growing the economy.

Our economy is 70% consumption based. Do the math.

It makes more sense for Uhuruto to put money in the hands of the poor than to invest in Parastatals or grandiose projects that simply euphemisms for large scale corruption.



"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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