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VAT BIll 2013 Politics
Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/15/2012 Posts: 1,110
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First off, people should be proud when they pay their taxes (whether through their income or through expenditures).
Secondly, guys need to understand that the government redistributes the same taxes through programs (projects) which are aimed at improving the livelihood of the poor; the focus should be on long-term issues that perpetuate a cycle of poverty.
If the government is subsidizing the cost of education, maternity healthcare is free, the transport system is good due to a good roads network, would the cost of living still be high?
Again, guys need to understand that the current VAT bill is inefficient. The reason is because KRA is taken to court everyday by people claiming refunds apparently because their goods are exempted from VAT. By minimizing the number of goods exempted from TAX, we will be able to raise more revenue, and eliminate these unnecessary refunds.
Live Full Die Empty - Les Brown.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/15/2012 Posts: 1,110
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McReggae wrote:InnovateGuy wrote:maka wrote:InnovateGuy wrote:There is a lot of misinformation about the VAT bill 2013. I would like to lay the blame squarely on the media for misinforming the public.
The first misconception is that the VAT bill will increase the cost of basic commodities for the common man. This is not entirely true. Most of the poor do not rely on processed foods. At least those who rely on processed foods can afford them. Again, some of the goods that are zero rated are not exclusively used by the poor people. Therefore, once the tax is removed, there is a huge number of people who will enjoy the "subsidy" while they do not form part of the poor group that should benefit from the "subsidy."
But commodity prices will go up right...the maziwas,mkates etc
Yes.But it's not a bad thing because there is a huge group of people that does not pay any other form of taxes. They can only pay through the goods they purchase.
The reason why the government did not go for this category before is because the thinking was that the exemption of some goods from taxation would cushion the poor in terms of the cost of living. The problem with this is that other people who are not necessarily poor benefit from the exemption.
So what do the poor eat especially in Nairobi.....what pads do they use, please enlighten me!!!
Latest World Bank report indicated that poverty rates in the country have slightly decreased to around 39-43% ( not sure). Majority of those people are not in Nairobi slums.They are in the rural areas. I can tell you for sure that they do not get their milk from Brookside. Live Full Die Empty - Les Brown.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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InnovateGuy wrote:There is a lot of misinformation about the VAT bill 2013. I would like to lay the blame squarely on the media for misinforming the public.
The first misconception is that the VAT bill will increase the cost of basic commodities for the common man. This is not entirely true. Most of the poor do not rely on processed foods. At least those who rely on processed foods can afford them. Again, some of the goods that are zero rated are not exclusively used by the poor people. Therefore, once the tax is removed, there is a huge number of people who will enjoy the "subsidy" while they do not form part of the poor group that should benefit from the "subsidy."
@Innovate, read your 1st post again so that you can stop beating the bush, answer concerns raised by @Maichblack and myself!!! ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/15/2012 Posts: 1,110
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MaichBlack wrote:Lolest! wrote:@innovateguy, are you Jaindi Kisero. Your views look like a summary of his article last week. But from a political angle, this sounds wrong esp because it comes from the same guys who promised us cheaper life. Jubilee was opposeds to wage increment preferring prices reductions. You cannot hit low income earners that hard. Life is hard enough. I find it unbelievable that Uhuruto allowed this to get to parliament. If we want more money, increase VAT rate to 18 Very disappointed by UhuRuto. They promised and I was actually expecting they would reduce the cost of living which is already ridiculous as it is! How do you reduce cost of living by increasing taxes on basic commodities? This is a classical 'mtado?' moment! One fellow here says that the poor don't use these BASIC commodities - like unga [Kenya's staple food is ugali], pads, milk etc. This bullcrap argument on two levels. First, because they do - common sense! Secondly because it is preposterous to argue that because there are some Kenyans who cannot afford some of these BASIC needs we should make them even more expensive! Seriously? Another fellow argues that the government needs money to operate. Of course it does and that is why we are already paying taxes through the nose. But didn't the former Finance Permanent Secretary say we loose a whooping 40% of revenue through corruption? Seal those loopholes and you have more than enough. Equity Bank introduced a system that sealed loopholes and saved 3B [Yes, Billion] a year in corruption related losses in Masai Mara alone. We all know how that ended! Haven't we all seen the county budgets? You want me to finance that with the 2/3 of my salary after the goverment GRABBED 1/3 at source. Should I finance the laptop project? Car grants for Mpigs? Their house and car loans? Kibaki's office? Ruto's re-modeling? Refurbishment of PERSONAL several houses belonging to governors? 53 million for entertainment for one governors office? Kabogo's 1.7 Billion for "office of the governor" [on clear explanation what it will be used for!] We need to stop looking for simple solutions to complicated/compound problems. If you give your son 20k pocket money per term and it is still not enough because he uses the money on alcohol, drugs, gambling and women, do you dip into your savings or get second job because your son "needs money to 'operate'"? The government is not making life unbearable for its citizens. The government is cushioning the out of pocket expenditures on things like education and medicines. The only hing the people will probably spend more money on is food. The rest is being taken of. Live Full Die Empty - Les Brown.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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InnovateGuy wrote:MaichBlack wrote:Lolest! wrote:@innovateguy, are you Jaindi Kisero. Your views look like a summary of his article last week. But from a political angle, this sounds wrong esp because it comes from the same guys who promised us cheaper life. Jubilee was opposeds to wage increment preferring prices reductions. You cannot hit low income earners that hard. Life is hard enough. I find it unbelievable that Uhuruto allowed this to get to parliament. If we want more money, increase VAT rate to 18 Very disappointed by UhuRuto. They promised and I was actually expecting they would reduce the cost of living which is already ridiculous as it is! How do you reduce cost of living by increasing taxes on basic commodities? This is a classical 'mtado?' moment! One fellow here says that the poor don't use these BASIC commodities - like unga [Kenya's staple food is ugali], pads, milk etc. This bullcrap argument on two levels. First, because they do - common sense! Secondly because it is preposterous to argue that because there are some Kenyans who cannot afford some of these BASIC needs we should make them even more expensive! Seriously? Another fellow argues that the government needs money to operate. Of course it does and that is why we are already paying taxes through the nose. But didn't the former Finance Permanent Secretary say we loose a whooping 40% of revenue through corruption? Seal those loopholes and you have more than enough. Equity Bank introduced a system that sealed loopholes and saved 3B [Yes, Billion] a year in corruption related losses in Masai Mara alone. We all know how that ended! Haven't we all seen the county budgets? You want me to finance that with the 2/3 of my salary after the goverment GRABBED 1/3 at source. Should I finance the laptop project? Car grants for Mpigs? Their house and car loans? Kibaki's office? Ruto's re-modeling? Refurbishment of PERSONAL several houses belonging to governors? 53 million for entertainment for one governors office? Kabogo's 1.7 Billion for "office of the governor" [on clear explanation what it will be used for!] We need to stop looking for simple solutions to complicated/compound problems. If you give your son 20k pocket money per term and it is still not enough because he uses the money on alcohol, drugs, gambling and women, do you dip into your savings or get second job because your son "needs money to 'operate'"? The government is not making life unbearable for its citizens. The government is cushioning the out of pocket expenditures on things like education and medicines. The only hing the people will probably spend more money on is food. The rest is being taken of.
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Rank: Hello Joined: 5/7/2013 Posts: 4
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MaichBlack wrote:Lolest! wrote:@innovateguy, are you Jaindi Kisero. Your views look like a summary of his article last week. But from a political angle, this sounds wrong esp because it comes from the same guys who promised us cheaper life. Jubilee was opposeds to wage increment preferring prices reductions. You cannot hit low income earners that hard. Life is hard enough. I find it unbelievable that Uhuruto allowed this to get to parliament. If we want more money, increase VAT rate to 18 Very disappointed by UhuRuto. They promised and I was actually expecting they would reduce the cost of living which is already ridiculous as it is! How do you reduce cost of living by increasing taxes on basic commodities? This is a classical 'mtado?' moment! One fellow here says that the poor don't use these BASIC commodities - like unga [Kenya's staple food is ugali], pads, milk etc. This bullcrap argument on two levels. First, because they do - common sense! Secondly because it is preposterous to argue that because there are some Kenyans who cannot afford some of these BASIC needs we should make them even more expensive! Seriously? Another fellow argues that the government needs money to operate. Of course it does and that is why we are already paying taxes through the nose. But didn't the former Finance Permanent Secretary say we loose a whooping 40% of revenue through corruption? Seal those loopholes and you have more than enough. Equity Bank introduced a system that sealed loopholes and saved 3B [Yes, Billion] a year in corruption related losses in Masai Mara alone. We all know how that ended! Haven't we all seen the county budgets? You want me to finance that with the 2/3 of my salary after the goverment GRABBED 1/3 at source. Should I finance the laptop project? Car grants for Mpigs? Their house and car loans? Kibaki's office? Ruto's re-modeling? Refurbishment of PERSONAL several houses belonging to governors? 53 million for entertainment for one governors office? Kabogo's 1.7 Billion for "office of the governor" [on clear explanation what it will be used for!] We need to stop looking for simple solutions to complicated/compound problems. If you give your son 20k pocket money per term and it is still not enough because he uses the money on alcohol, drugs, gambling and women, do you dip into your savings or get second job because your son "needs money to 'operate'"? Ditto
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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....eti the rest is being taken careof....you are talking like Tokyo from Japan!!!! ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/1/2010 Posts: 3,024 Location: Hapa
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InnovateGuy wrote:First off, people should be proud when they pay their taxes (whether through their income or through expenditures).
Secondly, guys need to understand that the government redistributes the same taxes through programs (projects) which are aimed at improving the livelihood of the poor; the focus should be on long-term issues that perpetuate a cycle of poverty.
If the government is subsidizing the cost of education, maternity healthcare is free, the transport system is good due to a good roads network, would the cost of living still be high?
Again, guys need to understand that the current VAT bill is inefficient. The reason is because KRA is taken to court everyday by people claiming refunds apparently because their goods are exempted from VAT. By minimizing the number of goods exempted from TAX, we will be able to raise more revenue, and eliminate these unnecessary refunds.
firstly, please stop mixing issues - most kenyans pay taxes proudly, we know we have a government to run and a country to develop. what we don't want is to be milked almost dry. who are these people who have the time and money to go and sue KRA? are they business people or consumers/consumer rights groups? are these basic commodities or other goods? ama suing KRA is also subsidized?  thirdly, we need to seal those corruption loop holes and get rid of these huge expenditure 'projects' that get priority but only serve the interests (not needs) of a few individuals at additional expense of mwananchi Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. - Muhammad Ali🐝
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/15/2012 Posts: 1,110
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butterflyke wrote: firstly, please stop mixing issues - most kenyans pay taxes proudly, we know we have a government to run and a country to develop. what we don't want is to be milked almost dry. Not everyone is employed in the formal sector. There is a huge group of people without formal jobs or businesses that can be taxed. The only way to get them is through taxing what they spend their money on (read taxing expenditures). butterflyke wrote:who are these people who have the time and money to go and sue KRA? are they business people or consumers/consumer rights groups? are these basic commodities or other goods? ama suing KRA is also subsidized? Businesses claiming refunds because some of the taxes that they pay are exempted from taxation.
butterflyke wrote:thirdly, we need to seal those corruption loop holes and get rid of these huge expenditure 'projects' that get priority but only serve the interests (not needs) of a few individuals at additional expense of mwananchi. Yes. This is one of the ways of making sure that we spend every dime in the right manner. Live Full Die Empty - Les Brown.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/1/2010 Posts: 3,024 Location: Hapa
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InnovateGuy wrote:
Not everyone is employed in the formal sector. There is a huge group of people without formal jobs or businesses that can be taxed. The only way to get them is through taxing what they spend their money on (read taxing expenditures).
so those who are being taxed on income already will also be taxed on expenditures so that the govt can net in those who don't pay tax on income?  ps you forgot to include those employed in the formal sector who have not been paying taxes (read mpigs) Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. - Muhammad Ali🐝
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