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Teachers Strike!!!
streetwise
#101 Posted : Tuesday, July 02, 2013 8:15:28 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 6/23/2011
Posts: 1,740
Location: Nairobi
I thought no one can be forced to work....what is this...

If the employee refuses to work then the employer can find another one who will accept the salary he is willing to pay.

Market forces then would determined at what pay the employer can retain workers...

McReggae
#102 Posted : Tuesday, July 02, 2013 8:25:22 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
I'm looking at those who are now pushing for respect of court orders and SMH.
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
murchr
#103 Posted : Tuesday, July 02, 2013 8:25:41 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
streetwise wrote:
I thought no one can be forced to work....what is this...

If the employee refuses to work then the employer can find another one who will accept the salary he is willing to pay.

Market forces then would determined at what pay the employer can retain workers...



Question: Are teachers employed by the TSC or by KNUT? If the court termed the strike as illegal, who is violating the others contract?
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
CLK
#104 Posted : Tuesday, July 02, 2013 8:34:20 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/1/2009
Posts: 846
murchr wrote:
A teacher - goes on leave every 3 months, can work less than 8hrs a day, can earn an extra pay when they go to mark the national exams.Work is not life threatening.

A nurse - Works through out the year and gets leave by chance, can work more than 8hr a day. Work conditions are pathetic all round and potentially life threatening.

My view, all salaries need to be normalized maybe pay per hr


Someone enlighten me, how many hours do the pigs work? how many leave days do they get? How much do they earn in sitting allowances? in short they are actually paid to work besides the normal salary.
Kweli mnyonge hana haki.

PS: am not a teacher, chose not to be one because i was a difficult student, couldnt imagine dealing with other people's brats on a daily basis. Those people are the most patient and God sent i know in Kenya.

Wapewe pesa, hata kama ni ya laptop!!!
murchr
#105 Posted : Tuesday, July 02, 2013 8:39:10 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
CLK wrote:
murchr wrote:
A teacher - goes on leave every 3 months, can work less than 8hrs a day, can earn an extra pay when they go to mark the national exams.Work is not life threatening.

A nurse - Works through out the year and gets leave by chance, can work more than 8hr a day. Work conditions are pathetic all round and potentially life threatening.

My view, all salaries need to be normalized maybe pay per hr


Someone enlighten me, how many hours do the pigs work? how many leave days do they get? How much do they earn in sitting allowances? in short they are actually paid to work besides the normal salary.
Kweli mnyonge hana haki.

PS: am not a teacher, chose not to be one because i was a difficult student, couldnt imagine dealing with other people's brats on a daily basis. Those people are the most patient and God sent i know in Kenya.

Wapewe pesa, hata kama ni ya laptop!!!


Those pigs claim that when they aint serving in parliament they are serving you machinani thats why we pay them mileage. How true that is subject to debate.

However, if we are to compare mwananinchi wa kawaida...the nurse, clerk in gov off, the teacher.. in short civil servants....the teacher is the best paid and has the best conditions...kweli ama rongo?
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
alma
#106 Posted : Tuesday, July 02, 2013 8:43:56 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
The argument that teachers are being paid too much or too little is neither here nor there.

Infact, the teachers should get on point and move the narrative LOUDLY to the issue at hand.

The gov't made a promise, signed a contract and even made a gazette notice to the same.

It will be a very bad precedent if a gov't reneges on a promise of any sort. If gov't can't honour a contract, then what makes you think that your T-bills won't be honoured for political expediency.

So not knowing how much they are being paid or will be paid or if its higher than nurses, the issue is. The gov't is refusing to honour a contract. That cannot be allowed by anyone.

I'd advice nurses and similar unionised civil servants to hire KNUT managers to promote their interests rather than complaining that teachers get paid too much.

And the court really really cannot force me to go to work. That is slavery mambo leo. I thought the judiciary was reformed.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
murchr
#107 Posted : Tuesday, July 02, 2013 8:49:39 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
alma wrote:
The argument that teachers are being paid too much or too little is neither here nor there.

Infact, the teachers should get on point and move the narrative LOUDLY to the issue at hand.

The gov't made a promise, signed a contract and even made a gazette notice to the same.

It will be a very bad precedent if a gov't reneges on a promise of any sort. If gov't can't honour a contract, then what makes you think that your T-bills won't be honoured for political expediency.

So not knowing how much they are being paid or will be paid or if its higher than nurses, the issue is. The gov't is refusing to honour a contract. That cannot be allowed by anyone.

I'd advice nurses and similar unionised civil servants to hire KNUT managers to promote their interests rather than complaining that teachers get paid too much.

And the court really really cannot force me to go to work. That is slavery mambo leo. I thought the judiciary was reformed.


Was there a timeline on which they were to be paid?

Did they agree that the lumpsum payment was to be done in 2013?
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
McReggae
#108 Posted : Tuesday, July 02, 2013 8:59:01 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi

Ambrose Adondo Adeya, KNUT Secretary
General (RIP), once told Moi; 'We will not attend any meeting even if it is called by God and Jesus in heaven, so dont tell us about a mere State House!'. Hehehehe. This 'We dont draw salaries from Kaimenyi and Kaimenyi Investments' guy will become a small Ambrose Adongo in future!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
alma
#109 Posted : Tuesday, July 02, 2013 9:00:57 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
murchr, I will not go into that path either.

The question is and should remain. Is there a signed agreement between teachers and gov't that the gov't is refusing to honor?

Timelines, how much, who signed, why, who, what etc are what we call mist in the issue at hand.

If there is a contract lying somewhere, then the gov't should pay.

I tend to believe the teachers in this rather the gov't which as late as yesterday was saying that it will negotiate with what they have. Rather than implement what was promised.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
murchr
#110 Posted : Tuesday, July 02, 2013 9:07:14 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
alma wrote:
murchr, I will not go into that path either.

The question is and should remain. Is there a signed agreement between teachers and gov't that the gov't is refusing to honor?

Timelines, how much, who signed, why, who, what etc are what we call mist in the issue at hand.

If there is a contract lying somewhere, then the gov't should pay.

I tend to believe the teachers in this rather the gov't which as late as yesterday was saying that it will negotiate with what they have. Rather than implement what was promised.


@alma, I dont think the govt has refused to honor it, rather the teachers feel that the programs the govt is running aren't worth it and they would rather be paid their money at once. (Blackmail, since when did they become policy makers)

So since they are all playing hard, maybe its time the contract is re-examined...was it time bound? You know the govt too cant be forced to pay all at once esp if there was a formula as to how the money would be paid.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
alma
#111 Posted : Tuesday, July 02, 2013 9:13:44 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
Correct me if I'm wrong murchr but I think the KNut realised that with the coming of SRC they needed to get their contracts done with. There is that particular piece of legislature that even the media wants to avoid.

Any collective agreements not complete by June 30th were to be null and void. So they made sure they were on strike before then to ensure that the gov't stops delaying as usual and implements ALL their agreements.

I have to say, KNUT are bright chaps.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
murchr
#112 Posted : Tuesday, July 02, 2013 9:18:21 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
alma wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong murchr but I think the KNut realised that with the coming of SRC they needed to get their contracts done with. There is that particular piece of legislature that even the media wants to avoid.

Any collective agreements not complete by June 30th were to be null and void. So they made sure they were on strike before then to ensure that the gov't stops delaying as usual and implements ALL their agreements.

I have to say, KNUT are bright chaps.


I know nothing about that
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
mukiha
#113 Posted : Tuesday, July 02, 2013 9:26:19 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
maka wrote:
McReggae wrote:
AG Githu Muigai: "It is totally unacceptable that litigants before any court or tribunal can choose what orders to be and which ones not to obey."

So he pulls out that card only when it suits them!Who ignored the county commissioners ruling again?


Order was overturned by Court of Appeal
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
chepkel
#114 Posted : Tuesday, July 02, 2013 9:30:44 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/6/2010
Posts: 741
Location: Nairobi
murchr wrote:
alma wrote:
murchr, I will not go into that path either.

The question is and should remain. Is there a signed agreement between teachers and gov't that the gov't is refusing to honor?

Timelines, how much, who signed, why, who, what etc are what we call mist in the issue at hand.

If there is a contract lying somewhere, then the gov't should pay.

I tend to believe the teachers in this rather the gov't which as late as yesterday was saying that it will negotiate with what they have. Rather than implement what was promised.


@alma, I dont think the govt has refused to honor it, rather the teachers feel that the programs the govt is running aren't worth it and they would rather be paid their money at once. (Blackmail, since when did they become policy makers)

So since they are all playing hard, maybe its time the contract is re-examined...was it time bound? You know the govt too cant be forced to pay all at once esp if there was a formula as to how the money would be paid.


In the 1997 memorandum of agreement, the government committed itself to paying medical, house, commuter, hardship and special education allowances.

According to this same agreement, the Government tried to negotiate for an implementation period of 5 years. However, the teachers refused and thus the Government agreed to pay in 2 phases.

The Government already implemented the 1st phase however, after that The Kibaki government refused to continue to honor this agreement.

The Gava claims to have no money. However, i think there is a lot of wastages going round in this country. When we want to use 50 million for entertainment, 70 million for cars, 100 million for renovating a residence that no one has ever occupied. Plus makie our lives more difficult throug 16%VAT which will be used to buy more cars and planes.

My God!!!! This Digital Government was supposed to bring new things and better ways of doing things. A little nip and tuck here and there will avail some necessary cash to take out country further.
mukiha
#115 Posted : Tuesday, July 02, 2013 9:42:19 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
Simplistic solution:

Issue legal notice suspending learning in ALL schools including private ones.

Issue another legal notice postponing national exams indefinitely

Stop public service teachers' salaries until they return to work.

Don't engage in any more talk.

Wait and see how long they can hold out.

In two weeks they will start going back to class.

Reopen schools on a case by case basis as enough teachers show up and sign commitment to return to work.

Strike will end within one month and never again will you hear of another strike in any public sector..... remember what happened to bankers some time in the 1990s? They all had to re-apply for their jobs!
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
Rankaz13
#116 Posted : Tuesday, July 02, 2013 9:54:05 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/21/2013
Posts: 2,841
Location: Here
mukiha wrote:
Simplistic solution:

Issue legal notice suspending learning in ALL schools including private ones.

Issue another legal notice postponing national exams indefinitely

Stop public service teachers' salaries until they return to work.

Don't engage in any more talk.

Wait and see how long they can hold out.

In two weeks they will start going back to class.

Reopen schools on a case by case basis as enough teachers show up and sign commitment to return to work.

Strike will end within one month and never again will you hear of another strike in any public sector..... remember what happened to bankers some time in the 1990s? They all had to re-apply for their jobs!


A plan that can very easily backfire. M.O-1 tried it with medics in the mid 90s and suffice it to say, we're still paying for that. Meanwhile, Botswana, Namibia and lately, Zambia & The DRC continue to be the greatest beneficiaries of that blunder. To this day, there're less than 3000 medics on gov't payroll expected to serve all of Kenya.
Life is like playing a violin solo in public and learning the instrument as one goes on.
alma
#117 Posted : Tuesday, July 02, 2013 9:55:39 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
Mukiha take this strike seriously. Even Moi couldn't tame them and he had more power than the present gov't will ever have.

You fire the teachers and you will have a revolution in your hand. Remember, today some mpigs will be discussing VAT on Ugali.

The cards this gov't has been dealt with are not for bravado but kusema na kutenda.

Every day this goes on, it looks bad on gov't. As long as they continue paying mpigs 1 million and changing carpets in a house for 100 million, and buying houses for people who have retired, this strike will be one this gov't will blame for losing in 2017 to Dida.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
mukiha
#118 Posted : Tuesday, July 02, 2013 11:41:03 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
@alma; the assumption that the public has sympathy with teachers is false. Public is angry that our kids are not going to school.. we want teachers back in class pronto!

For the avoidance of doubt, I do NOT support the teachers...and I have kids in public school.
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
nakujua
#119 Posted : Tuesday, July 02, 2013 12:29:06 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 3,583
Location: Kenya
Rankaz13 wrote:
mukiha wrote:
Simplistic solution:

Issue legal notice suspending learning in ALL schools including private ones.

Issue another legal notice postponing national exams indefinitely

Stop public service teachers' salaries until they return to work.

Don't engage in any more talk.

Wait and see how long they can hold out.

In two weeks they will start going back to class.

Reopen schools on a case by case basis as enough teachers show up and sign commitment to return to work.

Strike will end within one month and never again will you hear of another strike in any public sector..... remember what happened to bankers some time in the 1990s? They all had to re-apply for their jobs!


A plan that can very easily backfire. M.O-1 tried it with medics in the mid 90s and suffice it to say, we're still paying for that. Meanwhile, Botswana, Namibia and lately, Zambia & The DRC continue to be the greatest beneficiaries of that blunder. To this day, there're less than 3000 medics on gov't payroll expected to serve all of Kenya.

medics are a different breed, and I doubt teachers would get chances outside the country - that said the plan will definitely work, but the political damage might be too much for the current president to stomach, considering the next elections.
nakujua
#120 Posted : Tuesday, July 02, 2013 12:37:39 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 3,583
Location: Kenya
alma wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong murchr but I think the KNut realised that with the coming of SRC they needed to get their contracts done with. There is that particular piece of legislature that even the media wants to avoid.

Any collective agreements not complete by June 30th were to be null and void. So they made sure they were on strike before then to ensure that the gov't stops delaying as usual and implements ALL their agreements.

I have to say, KNUT are bright chaps.

Din't know that, if that's the case the knut guys must have very sound legal advice - but would a strike before june 30th nullify the said piece of legislature
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