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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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I agree with you totally @quicksand and @TAZ You must yell and being duped is part of the process. But forgive me for being in the school of thought that yelling for 50 years is too much. We having been yelling for so long that its become engrained in us that yelling is ok. After that accept and move on. Some fellows went and yelled about MPIgs salaries a few days ago. The mpigs got more money anyway....the same night. It's become so natural that leaders now expect us to yell as they continue doing as they wish. After all, 4 years from today I'll just join cord reloaded and I'll be re-elected. So forgive me if I have no sympathies for the voters who yell and do nothing about their situation. Barking dogs.... is now the rallying call for "our" leaders. Let's just accept. We have become the society that humbaglar is trying to get to terms with. Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/31/2008 Posts: 7,081 Location: Kenya
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alma wrote:Let's just accept. We have become the society that humbaglar is trying to get to terms with. ...And we are out to crucify @Humbaglar for telling us who we are exactly! I think we Kenyans are just the funniest bunch of people to have ever lived!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Protests can't help a bit. Why?
People protest because power and information are unevenly distributed and communication is poor especially due to a competition of interests in zero sum games.
So every time you protest the game runs faster till you become a monster. Then the monster destroys itself.
Let's consider that none of us is so upright and moral, and one is prone to take advantage of situations that concern the common good, and 'enrich' himself.
Protests only increase cunning and artifice. And the real issues never get resolved.
What we need are 'systems adjustments' that will even the playing field for all, and make prices flexible, and increase transparency and accountability.
This is about reengineering our state and her institutions.
Devolution is good for us, and all of us are supposed to make it work by making positive contributions towards it.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/5/2010 Posts: 2,061 Location: Nairobi
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I identify with those who complain because at the very least, it provides catharsis. It is a natural reaction by most people to a perceived wrong. On the other side sits compatriots @alma and @tycho, who from the responses prefer fatalism and stoic silence, perhaps trusting that things will resolve themselves or come to a disastrous end - or, theorizing on the remedies we need (needing system adjustments, even the playing field, re-engineering our state and institutions and the best,...making positive contributions), but not knowing how to do it. Not that I have any suggestions to offer myself. So where does that leave us? I am not any better than you, but I know better than to keep telling people to quit complaining. My personal opinion is that complaining sometimes deters people from doing some things. It does not work a lot of the times but it is something. This is why the continued censure grates me....gives the impression 'I am above this complaining thing'. So why complain about the complaints?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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quicksand wrote:I identify with those who complain because at the very least, it provides catharsis. It is a natural reaction by most people to a perceived wrong. On the other side sits compatriots @alma and @tycho, who from the responses prefer fatalism and stoic silence, perhaps trusting that things will resolve themselves or come to a disastrous end - or, theorizing on the remedies we need (needing system adjustments, even the playing field, re-engineering our state and institutions and the best,...making positive contributions), but not knowing how to do it. Not that I have any suggestions to offer myself. So where does that leave us? I am not any better than you, but I know better than to keep telling people to quit complaining. My personal opinion is that complaining sometimes deters people from doing some things. It does not work a lot of the times but it is something. This is why the continued censure grates me....gives the impression 'I am above this complaining thing'. So why complain about the complaints? No, @quicksand; I haven't seen/heard @Alma saying that we should sit stoically and do nothing. Neither are we on the 'other side'. The question is; why are you protesting at your own actions and self? Again, how can you say we were duped? Is this the first election we've had? Reengineering our systems is a positive solution that I have offered @quicksand, and I affirm it's worth our effort to look at it.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/5/2010 Posts: 2,061 Location: Nairobi
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tycho wrote:quicksand wrote:I identify with those who complain because at the very least, it provides catharsis. It is a natural reaction by most people to a perceived wrong. On the other side sits compatriots @alma and @tycho, who from the responses prefer fatalism and stoic silence, perhaps trusting that things will resolve themselves or come to a disastrous end - or, theorizing on the remedies we need (needing system adjustments, even the playing field, re-engineering our state and institutions and the best,...making positive contributions), but not knowing how to do it. Not that I have any suggestions to offer myself. So where does that leave us? I am not any better than you, but I know better than to keep telling people to quit complaining. My personal opinion is that complaining sometimes deters people from doing some things. It does not work a lot of the times but it is something. This is why the continued censure grates me....gives the impression 'I am above this complaining thing'. So why complain about the complaints? No, @quicksand; I haven't seen/heard @Alma saying that we should sit stoically and do nothing. Neither are we on the 'other side'. The question is; why are you protesting at your own actions and self? Again, how can you say we were duped? Is this the first election we've had? Reengineering our systems is a positive solution that I have offered @quicksand, and I affirm it's worth our effort to look at it. He didn't, and neither did I imply that he did. I am protesting the actions of an elected leader. You could say I am protesting the consequences, and even then, not direct consequences. Clearly Lusaka, for instance, does not have the interests of Bungoma people and county at heart. Even naive voters hope that an elected leader will bring development and affect their lives positively. Not all voters are greedy and misguided. In campaign speeches I am sure he did not mention that he intended to take a part of the kitty to fund luxurious foreign travel...he must have made promises to bring development etc etc ..isn't promising one thing then doing another lying? If Bungoma voters were not duped (or at least some of them), what would you call it? Re-engineering our systems? That is as useful as saying 'we need to change the world'.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2007 Posts: 8,776 Location: Cameroon
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Wachaneni na kina tycho. They are deep philosophers who get lost in their quest to rationalize things. Complaining is NORMAL for HUMANS, and yeah, it helps. Let the people be! TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/7/2007 Posts: 11,935 Location: Nairobi
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chepkel wrote:I belong to Bungoma County. I really want to be given a private session with this Lusaka person. Lock me up in a room with him, allow me to carry some tools and give me just 10 minutes!!!!!!  ....Hard wish to get @Quicksand, I like the way you've put it.Let's not quit yelling.At least the Devils will know we are still alive and kicking. Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/25/2007 Posts: 1,574
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chepkel wrote:I belong to Bungoma County. I really want to be given a private session with this Lusaka person. Lock me up in a room with him, allow me to carry some tools and give me just 10 minutes!!!!!! quicksand wrote:Clearly Lusaka, for instance, does not have the interests of Bungoma people and county at heart. Even naive voters hope that an elected leader will bring development and affect their lives positively. Not all voters are greedy and misguided. In campaign speeches I am sure he did not mention that he intended to take a part of the kitty to fund luxurious foreign travel...he must have made promises to bring development etc etc ..isn't promising one thing then doing another lying? If Bungoma voters were not duped (or at least some of them), what would you call it? He he he... Met Mr Lusaka when he was a District Commissioner. Entered his office at 10am and I found him watching those Oga movies that come on Citizen TV. He struck me as a civil servant with too much power and time on his hands. I was SHOCKED when he was appointed a PS for fisheries. I was DOUBLE SHOCKED when he became a Governor. Poleni watu wa Bungoma. Set out to correct the world's wrongs and you will most certainly wind up adding to them.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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quicksand wrote:tycho wrote:quicksand wrote:I identify with those who complain because at the very least, it provides catharsis. It is a natural reaction by most people to a perceived wrong. On the other side sits compatriots @alma and @tycho, who from the responses prefer fatalism and stoic silence, perhaps trusting that things will resolve themselves or come to a disastrous end - or, theorizing on the remedies we need (needing system adjustments, even the playing field, re-engineering our state and institutions and the best,...making positive contributions), but not knowing how to do it. Not that I have any suggestions to offer myself. So where does that leave us? I am not any better than you, but I know better than to keep telling people to quit complaining. My personal opinion is that complaining sometimes deters people from doing some things. It does not work a lot of the times but it is something. This is why the continued censure grates me....gives the impression 'I am above this complaining thing'. So why complain about the complaints? No, @quicksand; I haven't seen/heard @Alma saying that we should sit stoically and do nothing. Neither are we on the 'other side'. The question is; why are you protesting at your own actions and self? Again, how can you say we were duped? Is this the first election we've had? Reengineering our systems is a positive solution that I have offered @quicksand, and I affirm it's worth our effort to look at it. He didn't, and neither did I imply that he did. I am protesting the actions of an elected leader. You could say I am protesting the consequences, and even then, not direct consequences. Clearly Lusaka, for instance, does not have the interests of Bungoma people and county at heart. Even naive voters hope that an elected leader will bring development and affect their lives positively. Not all voters are greedy and misguided. In campaign speeches I am sure he did not mention that he intended to take a part of the kitty to fund luxurious foreign travel...he must have made promises to bring development etc etc ..isn't promising one thing then doing another lying? If Bungoma voters were not duped (or at least some of them), what would you call it? Re-engineering our systems? That is as useful as saying 'we need to change the world'. Yes. Re-engineering means changing our world, by deliberate action. Protesting is expecting that our leaders change our world, and for our private interest. How can that ever happen? The conditions for such an event do not exist. Our present world can't hold it (You can imagine how and why we've scared @Hamburglar). A world in which a governor is not self seeking is a 'communalist' world. About Lusaka. How is his budget not development centered? What is development? The other day some of us were saying that we have a robust state because we have bullet trains, as if development is about 'things'. Development is about consciousness. And change in consciousness is change of world. Is Lusaka's budget enough for changing the world? Of course! Even a shilling is enough. It's we who are protesting that don't want to work with what we have.
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