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The Kenya Police Force: Kavulidi Vs Kimaiyo
simonkabz
#21 Posted : Thursday, May 30, 2013 3:36:20 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
McReggae wrote:
simonkabz wrote:
zzzzzzzzz. .....wake me up when it starts working! zzzzzzzzzzzzz...


Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly resistance to ..........?


Resistance to civil activism.
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
McReggae
#22 Posted : Thursday, May 30, 2013 3:38:58 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
simonkabz wrote:
McReggae wrote:
simonkabz wrote:
zzzzzzzzz. .....wake me up when it starts working! zzzzzzzzzzzzz...


Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly resistance to ..........?


Resistance to civil activism.


Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly ....raundi hii watajipanga, the old order cannot continue!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
alma
#23 Posted : Thursday, May 30, 2013 3:43:26 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
You would think that giving the IG more powers would work. Well we have had 50yrs of a godlike existence with commissioners and I can say without a doubt that Kenya has been the safest place to live in worldwide.

So let's see. Give the IG more powers will surely stop all the crime happening in the country since he can hire and fire people. eish!

It's like saying that a wife should give all the money to her drunkard husband since the more money he has, the more responsible he will become.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
Rahatupu
#24 Posted : Thursday, May 30, 2013 4:00:10 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 1,982
Location: matano manne
alma wrote:
You would think that giving the IG more powers would work. Well we have had 50yrs of a godlike existence with commissioners and I can say without a doubt that Kenya has been the safest place to live in worldwide.

So let's see. Give the IG more powers will surely stop all the crime happening in the country since he can hire and fire people. eish!

It's like saying that a wife should give all the money to her drunkard husband since the more money he has, the more responsible he will become.



@Alma, @Simonkabich, @Mandobba.

The police force is a paramilitary force. A disciplined force. Currently the discordance between the IGP and the chairman is causing all the problems we are seeing on insecurity. Like Simo mentioned the IGP must have teeth period. Kavuludi should be investigated (maybe working for someone's agenda). Kimaiyo does not seem to have the right advisors, he's got all it takes to effect changes in the control and command structure of the force including enforcing discipline. I don't believe that the discipline issues of the force is negotiable, that some rogue officers can feel "protected" by activists in the ilk of Kavuludi. Indiscipline must be tackled by the man with the command and control authority. The IGP must have a firm grip on all matters of command and control which is fundamentally the coercive power of command.

How? Give him power to promote, demote, discipline, sanction and fire. (note he does not hire). Check his excesses via the NPSC. In a nutshell we must appreciate that any police system is inherently a dictatorship. I rest my case.
washiku
#25 Posted : Thursday, May 30, 2013 5:13:39 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 13,095
IMHO, I am against the notion that giving the IG more powers will automatically solve our security issues. They have had those powers for long but we kept on crying about our police force...The best solution would be for the Kavulundi's commission to work very well in harmony with IG n deputies. Why?

1. Its obvious that some of the transfers, firing and such others have not ALWAYS been fair or in the best interest of the police service and the country. We know of officers who have been "punished" by being taken to so called "remote areas" on the basis of blowing the whistle or such other reasons. With a working n functional relationship in the police commission, such officers have a hearing.

2. Who will check the IG? If all powers are given to IG, who will check him? This is not about who is the IG today. Any mad man/woman may get into that position in future and do things that can only be possible in a movie. With a working commission, such is sorted.

3. If the commission is working and competent, the IG too have a place to explain his decisions. I would expect the commission to be efficient in a way that empowers the IG to effectively make decisions that are in the interest of the country.

The answer lies not in the doing away with the commission or transferring powers, it lies in making it efficient and improving on its working relationship with the IG n his deputies. The commission shud be busy also lobbying for better working conditions for the police while the IG shud be busy gathering security intelligence and fighting crime.
alma
#26 Posted : Thursday, May 30, 2013 5:20:49 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
Rahatupu wrote:
alma wrote:
You would think that giving the IG more powers would work. Well we have had 50yrs of a godlike existence with commissioners and I can say without a doubt that Kenya has been the safest place to live in worldwide.

So let's see. Give the IG more powers will surely stop all the crime happening in the country since he can hire and fire people. eish!

It's like saying that a wife should give all the money to her drunkard husband since the more money he has, the more responsible he will become.



@Alma, @Simonkabich, @Mandobba.

The police force is a paramilitary force. A disciplined force. Currently the discordance between the IGP and the chairman is causing all the problems we are seeing on insecurity. Like Simo mentioned the IGP must have teeth period. Kavuludi should be investigated (maybe working for someone's agenda). Kimaiyo does not seem to have the right advisors, he's got all it takes to effect changes in the control and command structure of the force including enforcing discipline. I don't believe that the discipline issues of the force is negotiable, that some rogue officers can feel "protected" by activists in the ilk of Kavuludi. Indiscipline must be tackled by the man with the command and control authority. The IGP must have a firm grip on all matters of command and control which is fundamentally the coercive power of command.

How? Give him power to promote, demote, discipline, sanction and fire. (note he does not hire). Check his excesses via the NPSC. In a nutshell we must appreciate that any police system is inherently a dictatorship. I rest my case.


For a moment there I thought the insecurity is caused because of Raila.

Let's be serious for a moment. You cannot continue shifting blame for the insecurity in the country to other people.

You should read what Washiku has said and follow it.

Please note that the Military command in this country is under the President who is a civilian. Appointments are at his mercy.

Please come up with more realistic reasons to give one man more power than command issues.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
simonkabz
#27 Posted : Thursday, May 30, 2013 5:30:59 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
Ok, lets wait for the Kavuludi commission to start COMMANDING. Just beep...........zzzzzzzzzzzzz.....
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
simonkabz
#28 Posted : Thursday, May 30, 2013 5:50:15 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
alma wrote:
Rahatupu wrote:
alma wrote:
You would think that giving the IG more powers would work. Well we have had 50yrs of a godlike existence with commissioners and I can say without a doubt that Kenya has been the safest place to live in worldwide.

So let's see. Give the IG more powers will surely stop all the crime happening in the country since he can hire and fire people. eish!

It's like saying that a wife should give all the money to her drunkard husband since the more money he has, the more responsible he will become.



@Alma, @Simonkabich, @Mandobba.

The police force is a paramilitary force. A disciplined force. Currently the discordance between the IGP and the chairman is causing all the problems we are seeing on insecurity. Like Simo mentioned the IGP must have teeth period. Kavuludi should be investigated (maybe working for someone's agenda). Kimaiyo does not seem to have the right advisors, he's got all it takes to effect changes in the control and command structure of the force including enforcing discipline. I don't believe that the discipline issues of the force is negotiable, that some rogue officers can feel "protected" by activists in the ilk of Kavuludi. Indiscipline must be tackled by the man with the command and control authority. The IGP must have a firm grip on all matters of command and control which is fundamentally the coercive power of command.

How? Give him power to promote, demote, discipline, sanction and fire. (note he does not hire). Check his excesses via the NPSC. In a nutshell we must appreciate that any police system is inherently a dictatorship. I rest my case.


For a moment there I thought the insecurity is caused because of Raila.

Let's be serious for a moment. You cannot continue shifting blame for the insecurity in the country to other people.

You should read what Washiku has said and follow it.

Please note that the Military command in this country is under the President who is a civilian. Appointments are at his mercy.

Please come up with more realistic reasons to give one man more power than command issues.


You are as lost as they come. The military appointments are done within, with a very good structured system. Presidents don't interfere with military organization n running. Having civilians of little knowledge on COMMAND and DISCIPLINE running the show will have us whining for a long time to come. Take this to the bank.

Guys saying the force has been bad are just being sensational. Today its like 10 times worse under these civilians.

I would recommend a powerful IG and NPSC as an oversight to check any excesses. That would be a nice one.
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
alma
#29 Posted : Thursday, May 30, 2013 5:56:35 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
simonkabz maybe you don't know but the police service is not under "these" civilians but is headed by the IG.

So I may agree with you that the security situation has been worse under his leadership.

Please tell us what is going on and stop blaming others for the problems in the force.

Every company in the world has a command structure. What needs to happen is to follow what the president asked which was to work together to solve the problems. I think that was very wise counsel. Instead of trying to usurp power from "these" civilians.

Thus far, I'd give his record a D and I can't see how you giving him more power decreases the rapes in Dandora. Or is that the fault of the civilians too?
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
Gathige
#30 Posted : Thursday, May 30, 2013 6:04:02 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/29/2011
Posts: 2,242
The problem is we have created too many institutions to check each other yet there is no work being done. How can the IG be in charge of a force yet he has no control over the personnel he is responsible for. He can try to send guys to a trouble spot and the guys just says siendi and it stops there.

Let the IG have all the powers he needs and then we can see him do work. Let Kavulundi and team be responsible for PR.
"Things that matter most must never be at the mercy of things that matter least." Goethe
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