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Alcoholism is the only disease...
Rank: Member Joined: 2/7/2013 Posts: 447 Location: Nairobi
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Ati Jesus turn water to JUICE...where where where...OMG...i hate it when people interprate the bible to suit their ideas. kwanza i drank the so called none alcoholic wine...omg zeeroo...no wonder Jesus turned the water to wine...maybe he was bored of the grape juice You cant win, unless you first begin....
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/1/2010 Posts: 3,024 Location: Hapa
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McReggae wrote:Wendz wrote:EBALE wrote:Why doesnt Kenya just pull out of the Rome statute ?  Now, this, is alcoholism at its best! Look no further. Gave me a good laugh though! Do you even know where we were on this thread? ...and how did this @EBALE get to the position of a member with only 1 post thus far!!! see date of joining wazua Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. - Muhammad Ali🐝
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/15/2011 Posts: 4,518
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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Mukiri wrote: Like I said, Everything that was made from grapes was collectively referred to as 'Wine'. Alcoholic drinks were specifically refered to as 'Strong drink'. Its why you won't find 'Juice' in the Bible.
Here are a few Proverbs 31:6-7 Give strong drink to the one who is perishing, and wine to those in bitter distress; let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more.
Proverbs 31:4-7 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine, or for rulers to take strong drink, lest they drink and forget what has been decreed and pervert the rights of all the afflicted. Give strong drink to the one who is perishing, and wine to those in bitter distress; let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more.
Proverbs 20:1-7 Wine is a mocker, Strong drink is a brawler, And whoever is led astray by it is not wise.
Wine and other alcoholic drinks are frequently mentioned in the Bible. Here are afew and note wine drinking was encouraged and of more importance wine is not grape juice. 1. By Melchizedek, priest of the Most High God at Salem (Jerusalem) during the time of Abram, Melchizedek “brought forth bread and wine” for Abram and his companions ( Genesis 14:18).The Hebrew word translated wine in Genesis 14:18 is yayin. This word is used over 130 times in the Hebrew Bible to mean fermented wine, not grape juice. 2 This same beverage, when used excessively, causes drunkenness. Genesis 9:21 says that Noah drank too much yayin and became drunk. Lot also became drunk on this beverage ( Genesis 19:30-36), and so did Nabal ( 1 Samuel 25:36). Nevertheless, God told his people to enjoy yayin at the yearly festivals ( Deuteronomy 14:26). 3. In addition to using wine as a beverage, God also commanded the Levitical priests to include in the sacrifices a portion of wine (yayin) as a drink offering ( Exodus 29:40){To this day, wine is part of the holy sacrament}. These scriptures make it clear that there can be a right and a wrong use of wine. 4. Naturally fermented wine is between 10% and 14% alcohol. On special occasions God even allowed use of what is translated as “strong drink.” This term comes from a different Hebrew word — shekar — which is used 22 times in the Old Testament, and refers to alcoholic drinks made from dates and other fruit. 5 The Bible says that God gave wine to make men glad ( Psalm 104:15).Jesus did not preach against the use of wine; instead he did like most other Jews of his day. He drank wine in moderation. ( Matthew 11:19; Luke 7:34). When Jesus turned water into wine, it was of the best quality- “You have saved the best till now” (John 2:10). At wedding feasts, the hosts normally started with the best wine, and they would bring out lesser-quality wines later. Read Matthew 9:17 on old pouring new wine into old skins (for fermenting purposes) When Paul said, “Do not get drunk on wine [oinos]” ( Ephesians 5:18). Paul did not mean to avoid getting drunk on grape juice! Paul instructed Timothy, “Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine [oinos] because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses” (1 Timothy 5:23)."There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore .
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2012 Posts: 5,222
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murchr wrote:Mukiri wrote: Like I said, Everything that was made from grapes was collectively referred to as 'Wine'. Alcoholic drinks were specifically refered to as 'Strong drink'. Its why you won't find 'Juice' in the Bible.
Here are a few Proverbs 31:6-7 Give strong drink to the one who is perishing, and wine to those in bitter distress; let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more.
Proverbs 31:4-7 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine, or for rulers to take strong drink, lest they drink and forget what has been decreed and pervert the rights of all the afflicted. Give strong drink to the one who is perishing, and wine to those in bitter distress; let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more.
Proverbs 20:1-7 Wine is a mocker, Strong drink is a brawler, And whoever is led astray by it is not wise.
Wine and other alcoholic drinks are frequently mentioned in the Bible. Here are afew and note wine drinking was encouraged and of more importance wine is not grape juice. 1. By Melchizedek, priest of the Most High God at Salem (Jerusalem) during the time of Abram, Melchizedek “brought forth bread and wine” for Abram and his companions ( Genesis 14:18).The Hebrew word translated wine in Genesis 14:18 is yayin. This word is used over 130 times in the Hebrew Bible to mean fermented wine, not grape juice. 2 This same beverage, when used excessively, causes drunkenness. Genesis 9:21 says that Noah drank too much yayin and became drunk. Lot also became drunk on this beverage ( Genesis 19:30-36), and so did Nabal ( 1 Samuel 25:36). Nevertheless, God told his people to enjoy yayin at the yearly festivals ( Deuteronomy 14:26). 3. In addition to using wine as a beverage, God also commanded the Levitical priests to include in the sacrifices a portion of wine (yayin) as a drink offering ( Exodus 29:40){To this day, wine is part of the holy sacrament}. These scriptures make it clear that there can be a right and a wrong use of wine. 4. Naturally fermented wine is between 10% and 14% alcohol. On special occasions God even allowed use of what is translated as “strong drink.” This term comes from a different Hebrew word — shekar — which is used 22 times in the Old Testament, and refers to alcoholic drinks made from dates and other fruit. 5 The Bible says that God gave wine to make men glad ( Psalm 104:15).Jesus did not preach against the use of wine; instead he did like most other Jews of his day. He drank wine in moderation. ( Matthew 11:19; Luke 7:34). When Jesus turned water into wine, it was of the best quality- “You have saved the best till now” (John 2:10). At wedding feasts, the hosts normally started with the best wine, and they would bring out lesser-quality wines later. Read Matthew 9:17 on old pouring new wine into old skins (for fermenting purposes) When Paul said, “Do not get drunk on wine [oinos]” ( Ephesians 5:18). Paul did not mean to avoid getting drunk on grape juice! Paul instructed Timothy, “Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine [oinos] because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses” (1 Timothy 5:23). Atleast someone is reading the links...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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bkismat wrote:Mukiri wrote:McReggae wrote:Mukiri wrote:McReggae wrote:@Mukiri, now who addressed you as mad??.....address you grape juice story!!!!
@Angelica, you find every friday a problem????......tembea uone!!!! Ok, I'll indulge you. You go drink all the tuskers (or whatever your poison is) untill you have had too much to drink. I too will drink grape juice till I have had too much to drink. Then, let them bring you a better tasting tusker (or whatever is considered the sweetest alcohol) and let them bring me a sweeter grape juice. Let us see who identifies a difference in taste (If you won't be inebriated). After this, let them call M7 and have him come for his cow. Id be curious to see if he'll come for me or for you? Wine iliisha ikiwa bado wana hamu that's why Jesus changed the water into wine to quench their thirst, I have never seen anybody who can drink too much juice and still agree to taste more!!!! Mbloo, do you even see the satire in your statement? 'walikuwa bado na hamu' and what you had highlighted previously 'guests have had too much to drink'. In a wedding people drink alot of sodas, and then some more. As long as celebrations last. In those days, there was no soda. Everything that was made from grapes was collectively called 'Wine'. Alcohol was called 'Strong drink'. Its my prayer that you consider this facts objectively, arguing for arguments sake is foolhardy. Wine is wine. Can you pleas direct to that Chapter ad verse on Alcohol=Strong drink. @Mukiri and @murchr, also @murchr and @Meduza. No where did Jesus (peace be upon him) never authorized, approved, nor drank alcoholic wine. Many people called him so many things, which were not true. For example: - he was called " possessed"  , yet that did not make that correct. He was not possessed. - they also called Jesus (peace be upon him) a " winebibber"  that had no bearing on his actions, Matt 11:19Quote:The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Look at him, a glutton and a drunk, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ They falsely accused Jesus (peace be upon him)of being "a gluttonous man and a winebibber,". You know they accused him about many, many other things which you know were not true about Jesus (peace be upon him). Proverbs 23:20Quote:Do not spend time 1 among drunkards, 2 among those who eat too much 3 meat I think we all know what alcohol can do to a person. Besides, if the "wine" at the wedding was alcoholic, how could the Governor be able to tell that it WAS better "wine" unless he was completely sober?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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AlphDoti wrote:bkismat wrote:Mukiri wrote:McReggae wrote:Mukiri wrote:McReggae wrote:@Mukiri, now who addressed you as mad??.....address you grape juice story!!!!
@Angelica, you find every friday a problem????......tembea uone!!!! Ok, I'll indulge you. You go drink all the tuskers (or whatever your poison is) untill you have had too much to drink. I too will drink grape juice till I have had too much to drink. Then, let them bring you a better tasting tusker (or whatever is considered the sweetest alcohol) and let them bring me a sweeter grape juice. Let us see who identifies a difference in taste (If you won't be inebriated). After this, let them call M7 and have him come for his cow. Id be curious to see if he'll come for me or for you? Wine iliisha ikiwa bado wana hamu that's why Jesus changed the water into wine to quench their thirst, I have never seen anybody who can drink too much juice and still agree to taste more!!!! Mbloo, do you even see the satire in your statement? 'walikuwa bado na hamu' and what you had highlighted previously 'guests have had too much to drink'. In a wedding people drink alot of sodas, and then some more. As long as celebrations last. In those days, there was no soda. Everything that was made from grapes was collectively called 'Wine'. Alcohol was called 'Strong drink'. Its my prayer that you consider this facts objectively, arguing for arguments sake is foolhardy. Wine is wine. Can you pleas direct to that Chapter ad verse on Alcohol=Strong drink. @Mukiri and @murchr, also @murchr and @Meduza. No where did Jesus (peace be upon him) never authorized, approved, nor drank alcoholic wine. Many people called him so many things, which were not true. For example: - he was called " possessed"  , yet that did not make that correct. He was not possessed. - they also called Jesus (peace be upon him) a " winebibber"  that had no bearing on his actions, Matt 11:19Quote:The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Look at him, a glutton and a drunk, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ They falsely accused Jesus (peace be upon him)of being "a gluttonous man and a winebibber,". You know they accused him about many, many other things which you know were not true about Jesus (peace be upon him). Proverbs 23:20Quote:Do not spend time 1 among drunkards, 2 among those who eat too much 3 meat I think we all know what alcohol can do to a person. Besides, if the "wine" at the wedding was alcoholic, how could the Governor be able to tell that it WAS better "wine" unless he was completely sober? ^^^^^Theres a difference btn being an alcoholic and drinking wine, just like there;s a diff btn being gluttonous and eating. Rem too much of anything is dangerous. PS. No one called Jesus an alcoholic, wine drinking was part of the jewish culture, and if you cared to notice i quoted several examples whilst supporting my argument. On the wine at the wedding, those who know anything about winery and wine do know that the oldest always tastes better...its not about the alcohol. Ata ile fermented porridge ask around "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore .
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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murchr wrote:AlphDoti wrote:bkismat wrote:Mukiri wrote:McReggae wrote:Mukiri wrote:McReggae wrote:@Mukiri, now who addressed you as mad??.....address you grape juice story!!!!
@Angelica, you find every friday a problem????......tembea uone!!!! Ok, I'll indulge you. You go drink all the tuskers (or whatever your poison is) untill you have had too much to drink. I too will drink grape juice till I have had too much to drink. Then, let them bring you a better tasting tusker (or whatever is considered the sweetest alcohol) and let them bring me a sweeter grape juice. Let us see who identifies a difference in taste (If you won't be inebriated). After this, let them call M7 and have him come for his cow. Id be curious to see if he'll come for me or for you? Wine iliisha ikiwa bado wana hamu that's why Jesus changed the water into wine to quench their thirst, I have never seen anybody who can drink too much juice and still agree to taste more!!!! Mbloo, do you even see the satire in your statement? 'walikuwa bado na hamu' and what you had highlighted previously 'guests have had too much to drink'. In a wedding people drink alot of sodas, and then some more. As long as celebrations last. In those days, there was no soda. Everything that was made from grapes was collectively called 'Wine'. Alcohol was called 'Strong drink'. Its my prayer that you consider this facts objectively, arguing for arguments sake is foolhardy. Wine is wine. Can you pleas direct to that Chapter ad verse on Alcohol=Strong drink. @Mukiri and @murchr, also @murchr and @Meduza. No where did Jesus (peace be upon him) never authorized, approved, nor drank alcoholic wine. Many people called him so many things, which were not true. For example: - he was called " possessed"  , yet that did not make that correct. He was not possessed. - they also called Jesus (peace be upon him) a " winebibber"  that had no bearing on his actions, Matt 11:19Quote:The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Look at him, a glutton and a drunk, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ They falsely accused Jesus (peace be upon him)of being "a gluttonous man and a winebibber,". You know they accused him about many, many other things which you know were not true about Jesus (peace be upon him). Proverbs 23:20Quote:Do not spend time 1 among drunkards, 2 among those who eat too much 3 meat I think we all know what alcohol can do to a person. Besides, if the "wine" at the wedding was alcoholic, how could the Governor be able to tell that it WAS better "wine" unless he was completely sober? ^^^^^Theres a difference btn being an alcoholic and drinking wine, just like there;s a diff btn being gluttonous and eating. Rem too much of anything is dangerous. PS. No one called Jesus an alcoholic, wine drinking was part of the jewish culture, and if you cared to notice i quoted several examples whilst supporting my argument. On the wine at the wedding, those who know anything about winery and wine do know that the oldest always tastes better...its not about the alcohol. Ata ile fermented porridge ask around @murchr are you denying Matt 11:19? Please xplain to us the meaning of the following BIBLICAL TEACHINGSRomans 14:21 ESVIt is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble. Proverbs 20:1 ESVWine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, and whoever is led astray by it is not wise. Hosea 4:11 ESVWhoredom, wine, and new wine, which take away the understanding. Isaiah 5:11 ESVWoe to those who rise early in the morning, that they may run after strong drink, who tarry late into the evening as wine inflames them! Proverbs 23:29-35 ESVWho has woe? Who has sorrow? Who has strife? Who has complaining? Who has wounds without cause? Who has redness of eyes? Those who tarry long over wine; those who go to try mixed wine. Do not look at wine when it is red, when it sparkles in the cup and goes down smoothly. In the end it bites like a serpent and stings like an adder. Your eyes will see strange things, and your heart utter perverse things. ... 1 Peter 5:8 ESVBe sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. Proverbs 31:6-7 ESVGive strong drink to the one who is perishing, and wine to those in bitter distress; let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more. Ephesians 5:18 ESVAnd do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit Galatians 5:21 ESVEnvy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:10 ESVNor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. Proverbs 23:20-21 ESVBe not among drunkards or among gluttonous eaters of meat, for the drunkard and the glutton will come to poverty, and slumber will clothe them with rags.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Unfortunately what you see are genuine believers practising the commandments and you see people claiming the commandments and practising something else 
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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I guess it was so hard to differentiate btn strong drink n wine. Suit yourself "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore .
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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murchr wrote:I guess it was so hard to differentiate btn strong drink n wine. Suit yourself Yeah... now it suits me when I wanted you to explain what is in your Bible as per my Post #48 Anyway, I will take that to mean now you know the truth 
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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Holier than thou fellas dismiss alcohol as break all other rules.....hypocrites.......most fellas who do alcohol are real and not pretenders we say and do it as it is....to hell with the hypocrites. ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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AlphDoti wrote:murchr wrote:I guess it was so hard to differentiate btn strong drink n wine. Suit yourself Yeah... now it suits me when I wanted you to explain what is in your Bible as per my Post #48 Anyway, I will take that to mean now you know the truth  Am sure your not very damn not to realize that the bible doesnt condemn wine but strong drink "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore .
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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murchr wrote:AlphDoti wrote:murchr wrote:I guess it was so hard to differentiate btn strong drink n wine. Suit yourself Yeah... now it suits me when I wanted you to explain what is in your Bible as per my Post #48 Anyway, I will take that to mean now you know the truth  Am sure your not very damn not to realize that the bible doesn't condemn wine but strong drink That's okay. Would you mind explaining those verses in post #48?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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AlphDoti wrote:
Please xplain to us the meaning of the following BIBLICAL TEACHINGS
Romans 14:21 ESV It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble. Is it therefore wrong to eat meat also? What you refuse to realize is that Paul was emphasizing on what would cause your brother to stumble.
Proverbs 20:1 ESV Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, and whoever is led astray by it is not wise. On this one Need I say more? Strong drink is clear.
Hosea 4:11 ESV Whoredom, wine, and new wine, which take away the understanding. No one refutes the fact that its not wise to make decisions while having a drink. But a explained earlier it was allowed to have wine when having celebrations
Isaiah 5:11 ESV Woe to those who rise early in the morning, that they may run after strong drink, who tarry late into the evening as wine inflames them! Again, the mention of strong drink
Proverbs 23:29-35 ESV Who has woe? Who has sorrow? Who has strife? Who has complaining? Who has wounds without cause? Who has redness of eyes? Those who tarry long over wine; those who go to try mixed wine. Do not look at wine when it is red, when it sparkles in the cup and goes down smoothly. In the end it bites like a serpent and stings like an adder. Your eyes will see strange things, and your heart utter perverse things. .... To me this sounds like a warning of taking too much wine
1 Peter 5:8 ESV Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. ????? Proverbs 31:6-7 ESV Give strong drink to the one who is perishing, and wine to those in bitter distress; let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more. How is it condemned here?
Ephesians 5:18 ESV And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit. Again, drunkenness is condemned, not the taking of wine
Galatians 5:21 ESV Envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Another condemnation of drunkenness
1 Corinthians 6:10 ESV Nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Proverbs 23:20-21 ESV Be not among drunkards or among gluttonous eaters of meat, for the drunkard and the glutton will come to poverty, and slumber will clothe them with rags.
Satisfied? "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore .
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/15/2008 Posts: 16 Location: Nairobi
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McReggae wrote:Wendz wrote:EBALE wrote:Why doesnt Kenya just pull out of the Rome statute ?  Now, this, is alcoholism at its best! Look no further. Gave me a good laugh though! Do you even know where we were on this thread? ...and how did this @EBALE get to the position of a member with only 1 post thus far!!! Definitely commented on the wrong post  .
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/15/2008 Posts: 16 Location: Nairobi
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McReggae wrote:Wendz wrote:EBALE wrote:Why doesnt Kenya just pull out of the Rome statute ?  Now, this, is alcoholism at its best! Look no further. Gave me a good laugh though! Do you even know where we were on this thread? ...and how did this @EBALE get to the position of a member with only 1 post thus far!!! I know people
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/5/2010 Posts: 2,061 Location: Nairobi
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,910
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this is being defensive for nothing while you all drunkards know that is is not good for your health and others. In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/5/2010 Posts: 2,061 Location: Nairobi
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Angelica _ann wrote:this is being defensive for nothing while you all drunkards know that is is not good for your health and others. We drink but not all of us are drunkards. Those who drink in moderation are also some of the most conscientious people around, because it takes responsibility, knowledge and maturity to know when to stop.
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