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Africa to pull out of ICC
Rahatupu
#51 Posted : Friday, May 24, 2013 3:31:30 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 1,982
Location: matano manne
aemathenge wrote:
Could someone explain to me the reasons "we" got in in the first place and whether those reasons still exist?



I bet "we" get into any other buzz worded treaty that the they dangle our way as "we" marvel at them bowl in hand seeking for "aid". Not making an excuse for the same though, but the unequal nature of relationship between Africa and the West has always served to get "us" into such awkward positions. I have reservations why for example we rush to sign treaties on intellectual property rights and at the same time dare to dream of industrializing.
Impunity
#52 Posted : Friday, May 24, 2013 3:35:35 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,333
Location: Masada
aemathenge wrote:
Could someone explain to me the reasons "we" got in in the first place and whether those reasons still exist?


We got in due to POPULISM...the same we enacted a populist constitution.
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aemathenge
#53 Posted : Friday, May 24, 2013 3:37:23 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/18/2008
Posts: 3,434
Location: Kerugoya
Rahatupu wrote:
I bet "we" get into any other buzz worded treaty that the they dangle our way as "we" marvel at them bowl in hand seeking for "aid". Not making an excuse for the same though, but the unequal nature of relationship between Africa and the West has always served to get "us" into such awkward positions. I have reservations why for example we rush to sign treaties on intellectual property rights and at the same time dare to dream of industrializing.

You imply "we" got in because "we" needed "aid". So, do "we" still need aid? Or rather, if "we" leave now, won't "we" be forfeiting the aid?
aemathenge
#54 Posted : Friday, May 24, 2013 3:44:37 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/18/2008
Posts: 3,434
Location: Kerugoya
Impunity wrote:
aemathenge wrote:
Could someone explain to me the reasons "we" got in in the first place and whether those reasons still exist?


We got in due to POPULISM...the same we enacted a populist constitution.
Sad Sad

In that regard, "we" want out because it is the "popular" demand at the moment.

What then happens if say a mad dictator takes over Azania and starts ethnically decimating Zulus because he is a Xhosa and the "popular" cry all over Mother Africa is send him to the ICC. Do "we" go back in because it will be the "popular" consensus?
Rahatupu
#55 Posted : Friday, May 24, 2013 4:00:17 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 1,982
Location: matano manne
aemathenge wrote:
Rahatupu wrote:
I bet "we" get into any other buzz worded treaty that the they dangle our way as "we" marvel at them bowl in hand seeking for "aid". Not making an excuse for the same though, but the unequal nature of relationship between Africa and the West has always served to get "us" into such awkward positions. I have reservations why for example we rush to sign treaties on intellectual property rights and at the same time dare to dream of industrializing.

You imply "we" got in because "we" needed "aid". So, do "we" still need aid? Or rather, if "we" leave now, won't "we" be forfeiting the aid?
.

Populism is the key word and it is "forced" on "us" for economic reasons. Read between the lines and you'll realize I don't sympathize with "our" situation nor imply that this relationship will change by simply walking out of the ICC.
TAZ
#56 Posted : Friday, May 24, 2013 4:43:46 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/14/2007
Posts: 4,152
Full statement from ICC Witness number 8


http://www.kenyan-post.c...cc-witness-number-8.html
McReggae
#57 Posted : Friday, May 24, 2013 4:59:29 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
TAZ wrote:
Full statement from ICC Witness number 8


http://www.kenyan-post.c...c-witness-number-8.html[


Evrybody was coached bro, from Waki, to the witnesses and now even the TJRC......!!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
iller
#58 Posted : Friday, May 24, 2013 5:11:28 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 3/25/2013
Posts: 552
Location: Asgard
Even that awesome dog from coasto was coached
poundfoolish
#59 Posted : Friday, May 24, 2013 5:12:05 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/2/2009
Posts: 2,458
Location: Nairobi
mkeiyd wrote:
harrydre wrote:





What is it that AU has done exceptionally well?
Two examples would suffice.


I think Ahmed sometimes goes into his house closes his doors and windows enters into a room and laugh out silly...AT US!!!

I believe he tired of working for Kenyans and only toils for himself nowdays.. if there is something in it for him anakuja na njora,,, na anakata kipande kubwa and eats with a Spoon..
tycho
#60 Posted : Friday, May 24, 2013 5:43:09 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
aemathenge wrote:
Could someone explain to me the reasons "we" got in in the first place and whether those reasons still exist?


'We' definitely had many reasons for embracing the Rome statute. Selfish motives by nation states a.k.a 'national interests' were definitely there. For example, it is highly probable, that the so called 'world powers', or some world powers wanted to control and further their interests. Weaker states must have had their selfish interests too.

But we were also making the important steps in the government of Man by recognizing that there are no boundaries seperating culture and identity. And established the right of states to act on other states that may be seen as deviant.

This statute is a pillar that shouldn't be looked at lightly. We cannot even do without it.

Otherwise how will the state stand? I cannot imagine how Africa or even Kenya can stand alone. We are intertwined at every conceivable level.

For example, is it proper that thousands should die in Syria while we watch helplessly?

What happened to Gaddafi and his country? What is happening in Uganda?

What happened in Kenya in 2008? How has it been accounted for?

There was a time we believed that the Hague was the way to go. Why?

Kenya, and Africa should instead seek to strengthen the ICC, even if it means persuading the world powers to sign the Rome statute.

But our President and Deputy are suspects. The way out is a political deal amongst Kenyans pointing towards truth and reconciliation, and a deal with the ICC based on facts of the case, and representative democracy allowing elements of a direct democracy through extensive network systems. It will be a fair deal, and the whole world will be happy.









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