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Africa to pull out of ICC
Rank: Member Joined: 4/26/2011 Posts: 759
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maka wrote:Emancipate yourselves from mental
slavery;
None but ourselves can free our
minds.
Have no fear for atomic energy,
'Cause none of them can stop the
time.
How long shall they kill our
prophets,
While we stand aside and look?
Ooh!
Some say it's just a part of it:
We've got to fullfil the book. smoking something??????
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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Rollout wrote:maka wrote:Emancipate yourselves from mental
slavery;
None but ourselves can free our
minds.
Have no fear for atomic energy,
'Cause none of them can stop the
time.
How long shall they kill our
prophets,
While we stand aside and look?
Ooh!
Some say it's just a part of it:
We've got to fullfil the book. smoking something?????? "It is a dangerous theory of economic and political reformation because it seeks to put government in the hands of an ignorant white mass who have not been able to destroy their natural prejudices towards Negroes and other non-white people. While it may be a good thing for them, it will be a bad thing for the Negroes who will fall under the government of the most ignorant, prejudiced class of the white race" Marcus Garvey Haile Selaisse had lions. When he was overthrown they fed on him Lij Tafarri Makkonen possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/15/2011 Posts: 4,518
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Good. Let us have ACC and leave ICC to deal with western criminals. We should manage our own criminals the best way we know how. The beef I have with ICC is that it's key donors who are not saints either, are not party to the statutes. I don't view it from a racist angle. "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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Rollout wrote:
First, I think you are confusing the moral responsibility and legal responsibility, Mwai and RAO could be morally responsible from the fact that the 4 were working for them, but unless they directed the four to commit the crimes they are alleged to have committed, MWai and RAO cannot be legally responsible for those crimes committed by the 4. Assuming that Mwai and RAO is guilty just because the accussed worked for them is just a stretch if not outright lack of knowhow, Criminal responsibility is different from civil responsibility. ICC is a criminal court not a civil court.
Secondly, It is a little laughable when we have to use an opinion by one judge to make a conclusion it actually shows the deficits we have when it come to independent thinking, infact there is a disconnect between using the word, "one judge,"..... and "something is really wrong," How can something be really wrong when one judge out of more than 2 disagree??????Really?
Lastly, I don't have a problem if you call me what you think I am (naive) and you shouldn't have a problem if I call you what I think you are and that is F***ing idiot, Ooops excuse my language.
1. Did the accused commit murder, rape, etc? Can anyone say that UK Sang or Ruto actually took a mashete or bows and arrows to kill rape anyone? If they incited people to work on their behalf how is that different from Raia and Mwai or better still Nyong'o who called for the match and is on record declaring "No Raia No Peace"? Weren't those who committed the actual crimes over 18 years of age, of sound mind and capable to stand trial? 2. Really? The withdrawal of that one judge in as much as you'd wish to make it look like nothing undermines the whole process to the core. A judge does not just withdraw from a case just like you'd choose not to go ahead with a trade... its different. Its about a moral and professional obligation and persuasion. In this case he cited the prosecutors shoddy work, I cant wait for this case to start...we will watch as the drama unfolds. 3. If you want to see an id***, the bathroom mirror will show you the perfect reflection but then again, you continue to prove the point that you are indeed naive. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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essyk wrote:Good.
Let us have ACC and leave ICC to deal with western criminals.
We should manage our own criminals the best way we know how.
The best way how is letting the suspect charter a jet for a few millions while jiggers are obliterating some of our citizens...thats the best way how...its a shame we cant even fund our own education and we need handouts. possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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maka wrote:Rollout wrote:maka wrote:Emancipate yourselves from mental
slavery;
None but ourselves can free our
minds.
Have no fear for atomic energy,
'Cause none of them can stop the
time.
How long shall they kill our
prophets,
While we stand aside and look?
Ooh!
Some say it's just a part of it:
We've got to fullfil the book. smoking something?????? "It is a dangerous theory of economic and political reformation because it seeks to put government in the hands of an ignorant white mass who have not been able to destroy their natural prejudices towards Negroes and other non-white people. While it may be a good thing for them, it will be a bad thing for the Negroes who will fall under the government of the most ignorant, prejudiced class of the white race" Marcus Garvey Haile Selaisse had lions. When he was overthrown they fed on him Lij Tafarri Makkonen Does anyone of you know about bloody Saturday? On 23 November 1974, sixty former high officials of the imperial government of Haile Selaisse were executed without trial. The executed included Haile Selassie's grandson and two former Prime Ministers. These killings are known in Ethiopia as "Bloody Saturday" possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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maka wrote:maka wrote:Rollout wrote:maka wrote:Emancipate yourselves from mental
slavery;
None but ourselves can free our
minds.
Have no fear for atomic energy,
'Cause none of them can stop the
time.
How long shall they kill our
prophets,
While we stand aside and look?
Ooh!
Some say it's just a part of it:
We've got to fullfil the book. smoking something?????? "It is a dangerous theory of economic and political reformation because it seeks to put government in the hands of an ignorant white mass who have not been able to destroy their natural prejudices towards Negroes and other non-white people. While it may be a good thing for them, it will be a bad thing for the Negroes who will fall under the government of the most ignorant, prejudiced class of the white race" Marcus Garvey Haile Selaisse had lions. When he was overthrown they fed on him Lij Tafarri Makkonen Does anyone of you know about bloody Saturday? On 23 November 1974, sixty former high officials of the imperial government of Haile Selaisse were executed without trial. The executed included Haile Selassie's grandson and two former Prime Ministers. These killings are known in Ethiopia as "Bloody Saturday" Jamaica has a holiday called Grounation day Its the day that Haile went to Jamaica for the first time.21st April 1966. Over 500.000 rastafarians and other Jamaicans came to see him at the Airport. The Messiah had arrived... The crowd was so huge he was unable to alight for 4 hours... The haze of ganja smoke was so thick that the sun was blacked out in the fog... possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/26/2011 Posts: 759
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murchr wrote:Rollout wrote:
First, I think you are confusing the moral responsibility and legal responsibility, Mwai and RAO could be morally responsible from the fact that the 4 were working for them, but unless they directed the four to commit the crimes they are alleged to have committed, MWai and RAO cannot be legally responsible for those crimes committed by the 4. Assuming that Mwai and RAO is guilty just because the accussed worked for them is just a stretch if not outright lack of knowhow, Criminal responsibility is different from civil responsibility. ICC is a criminal court not a civil court.
Secondly, It is a little laughable when we have to use an opinion by one judge to make a conclusion it actually shows the deficits we have when it come to independent thinking, infact there is a disconnect between using the word, "one judge,"..... and "something is really wrong," How can something be really wrong when one judge out of more than 2 disagree??????Really?
Lastly, I don't have a problem if you call me what you think I am (naive) and you shouldn't have a problem if I call you what I think you are and that is F***ing idiot, Ooops excuse my language.
1. Did the accused commit murder, rape, etc? Can anyone say that UK Sang or Ruto actually took a mashete or bows and arrows to kill rape anyone? If they incited people to work on their behalf how is that different from Raia and Mwai or better still Nyong'o who called for the match and is on record declaring "No Raia No Peace"? Weren't those who committed the actual crimes over 18 years of age, of sound mind and capable to stand trial? 2. Really? The withdrawal of that one judge in as much as you'd wish to make it look like nothing undermines the whole process to the core. A judge does not just withdraw from a case just like you'd choose not to go ahead with a trade... its different. Its about a moral and professional obligation and persuasion. In this case he cited the prosecutors shoddy work, I cant wait for this case to start...we will watch as the drama unfolds. 3. If you want to see an id***, the bathroom mirror will show you the perfect reflection but then again, you continue to prove the point that you are indeed naive. 1) I don't know how your process your thinking if you indeed do, Mwai and ROA are not acused of asking the 4 to do any crime for them, but the four are acused of knowingly taking part in those crimes. which part of these don't you understand? 2)If you cannot process number 1 then it is impossible for you to process number 2. Judges withdraw from cases all the time, it is nothing new. Withdrawal of the judge do not undermine the process, do not confuse wishfull thinking with facts, the opinion of the one judge is just an opinion and is probably not admissible in court. 3)One person has to be delusional here. Justice system work differently mr Murchr, so things are complicated that is why they've set law school entry a little higher for average people. There is no crime in calling for mass action so drop that from your argument, no raila no peace can only be a crime if it can be connected with some actions and maybe NYONYO was number 8 on the list so it is upto Kenyan courts to go after him. 4) Lastly do you want ICC to replace the names they have to the names you think they should have? That is really funny, you should look at your bathroom mirror for real! Really????
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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Rollout wrote:murchr wrote:Rollout wrote:
First, I think you are confusing the moral responsibility and legal responsibility, Mwai and RAO could be morally responsible from the fact that the 4 were working for them, but unless they directed the four to commit the crimes they are alleged to have committed, MWai and RAO cannot be legally responsible for those crimes committed by the 4. Assuming that Mwai and RAO is guilty just because the accussed worked for them is just a stretch if not outright lack of knowhow, Criminal responsibility is different from civil responsibility. ICC is a criminal court not a civil court.
Secondly, It is a little laughable when we have to use an opinion by one judge to make a conclusion it actually shows the deficits we have when it come to independent thinking, infact there is a disconnect between using the word, "one judge,"..... and "something is really wrong," How can something be really wrong when one judge out of more than 2 disagree??????Really?
Lastly, I don't have a problem if you call me what you think I am (naive) and you shouldn't have a problem if I call you what I think you are and that is F***ing idiot, Ooops excuse my language.
1. Did the accused commit murder, rape, etc? Can anyone say that UK Sang or Ruto actually took a mashete or bows and arrows to kill rape anyone? If they incited people to work on their behalf how is that different from Raia and Mwai or better still Nyong'o who called for the match and is on record declaring "No Raia No Peace"? Weren't those who committed the actual crimes over 18 years of age, of sound mind and capable to stand trial? 2. Really? The withdrawal of that one judge in as much as you'd wish to make it look like nothing undermines the whole process to the core. A judge does not just withdraw from a case just like you'd choose not to go ahead with a trade... its different. Its about a moral and professional obligation and persuasion. In this case he cited the prosecutors shoddy work, I cant wait for this case to start...we will watch as the drama unfolds. 3. If you want to see an id***, the bathroom mirror will show you the perfect reflection but then again, you continue to prove the point that you are indeed naive. 1) I don't know how your process your thinking if you indeed do, Mwai and ROA are not acused of asking the 4 to do any crime for them, but the four are acused of knowingly taking part in those crimes. which part of these don't you understand? 2)If you cannot process number 1 then it is impossible for you to process number 2. Judges withdraw from cases all the time, it is nothing new. Withdrawal of the judge do not undermine the process, do not confuse wishfull thinking with facts, the opinion of the one judge is just an opinion and is probably not admissible in court. 3)One person has to be delusional here. Justice system work differently mr Murchr, so things are complicated that is why they've set law school entry a little higher for average people. There is no crime in calling for mass action so drop that from your argument, no raila no peace can only be a crime if it can be connected with some actions and maybe NYONYO was number 8 on the list so it is upto Kenyan courts to go after him. 4) Lastly do you want ICC to replace the names they have to the names you think they should have? That is really funny, you should look at your bathroom mirror for real! Really???? I will not argue with you, No one has ever denied that atrocities were committed, but the question has always been, did the prosecutor conduct investigations independently? He repeatedly said that he relied on the KNHRC report which he said he "trusts" never mind the trusted were all political appointees and the collections of submissions made in the Waki team, Waki the good judge insisted that the accusations needed investigations because of inconsistencies, Infact my understanding is that after the release of the 6 names the man was utterly shocked by the turn of events (No wonder his silence). Judges withdraw from cases yes and in most if not all, they state their reasons, this one was no exception, he stated the conduct of the prosecutor as a reason. You see Drunkard, some people value their time and more so respect their moral conscience, that may be hard for you to understand but it does indeed happen. I dont think I have told you that I want the names to be changed, no, its a waste of time. I pity all those who invested their emotions and time believing that man called Ocampo. The biggest problem that those of ngozi nyeusi still have is to believe that the man of ngozi nyeupe is perfect, more so if he wears a suit and a funny tie. Lastly, lets wait for the case to start, you live in the cyber world as I do, everything will unfold before us. I will still be here in wazua. Adios! "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/26/2011 Posts: 759
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murchr wrote:Rollout wrote:murchr wrote:Rollout wrote:
First, I think you are confusing the moral responsibility and legal responsibility, Mwai and RAO could be morally responsible from the fact that the 4 were working for them, but unless they directed the four to commit the crimes they are alleged to have committed, MWai and RAO cannot be legally responsible for those crimes committed by the 4. Assuming that Mwai and RAO is guilty just because the accussed worked for them is just a stretch if not outright lack of knowhow, Criminal responsibility is different from civil responsibility. ICC is a criminal court not a civil court.
Secondly, It is a little laughable when we have to use an opinion by one judge to make a conclusion it actually shows the deficits we have when it come to independent thinking, infact there is a disconnect between using the word, "one judge,"..... and "something is really wrong," How can something be really wrong when one judge out of more than 2 disagree??????Really?
Lastly, I don't have a problem if you call me what you think I am (naive) and you shouldn't have a problem if I call you what I think you are and that is F***ing idiot, Ooops excuse my language.
1. Did the accused commit murder, rape, etc? Can anyone say that UK Sang or Ruto actually took a mashete or bows and arrows to kill rape anyone? If they incited people to work on their behalf how is that different from Raia and Mwai or better still Nyong'o who called for the match and is on record declaring "No Raia No Peace"? Weren't those who committed the actual crimes over 18 years of age, of sound mind and capable to stand trial? 2. Really? The withdrawal of that one judge in as much as you'd wish to make it look like nothing undermines the whole process to the core. A judge does not just withdraw from a case just like you'd choose not to go ahead with a trade... its different. Its about a moral and professional obligation and persuasion. In this case he cited the prosecutors shoddy work, I cant wait for this case to start...we will watch as the drama unfolds. 3. If you want to see an id***, the bathroom mirror will show you the perfect reflection but then again, you continue to prove the point that you are indeed naive. 1) I don't know how your process your thinking if you indeed do, Mwai and ROA are not acused of asking the 4 to do any crime for them, but the four are acused of knowingly taking part in those crimes. which part of these don't you understand? 2)If you cannot process number 1 then it is impossible for you to process number 2. Judges withdraw from cases all the time, it is nothing new. Withdrawal of the judge do not undermine the process, do not confuse wishfull thinking with facts, the opinion of the one judge is just an opinion and is probably not admissible in court. 3)One person has to be delusional here. Justice system work differently mr Murchr, so things are complicated that is why they've set law school entry a little higher for average people. There is no crime in calling for mass action so drop that from your argument, no raila no peace can only be a crime if it can be connected with some actions and maybe NYONYO was number 8 on the list so it is upto Kenyan courts to go after him. 4) Lastly do you want ICC to replace the names they have to the names you think they should have? That is really funny, you should look at your bathroom mirror for real! Really???? I will not argue with you, No one has ever denied that atrocities were committed, but the question has always been, did the prosecutor conduct investigations independently? He repeatedly said that he relied on the KNHRC report which he said he "trusts" never mind the trusted were all political appointees and the collections of submissions made in the Waki team, Waki the good judge insisted that the accusations needed investigations because of inconsistencies, Infact my understanding is that after the release of the 6 names the man was utterly shocked by the turn of events (No wonder his silence). Judges withdraw from cases yes and in most if not all, they state their reasons, this one was no exception, he stated the conduct of the prosecutor as a reason. You see Drunkard, some people value their time and more so respect their moral conscience, that may be hard for you to understand but it does indeed happen. I dont think I have told you that I want the names to be changed, no, its a waste of time. I pity all those who invested their emotions and time believing that man called Ocampo. The biggest problem that those of ngozi nyeusi still have is to believe that the man of ngozi nyeupe is perfect, more so if he wears a suit and a funny tie. Lastly, lets wait for the case to start, you live in the cyber world as I do, everything will unfold before us. I will still be here in wazua. Adios! You are mad at KNHRC again? You should really have been appointed to something by Uhuruto mr, you are really emotionally invested on the two! If you have never listen, the supporters of ICC including me want the process to continue and if the 4 are not guilty, they will be found innocent and that is great. The problem with those against ICC is that, they want to stop the case so much that they can't seem to think straight, they want to blame just about everyone, ICC, the West, Ocampo, KNHRC, RAO, even drunkard! It is silly, suddenly people like you spent all their energy defending people who do not need their defence, I hope you don't believe everything you write because if you do, kenya is doomed!
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