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Why is Mpesa Bank not regulated by CBK?
Rank: Elder Joined: 9/15/2006 Posts: 3,905
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mlennyma wrote:Commercial B of Africa has nothing to do with mpesa,and the telco hundles solely the un regulated billions...correct me if am wrong @mlennyma, it may help if you phrase questions as queries not statement  Though CBA's role with MPesa is less than that of MShwari, they still are the main bank that holds MPesa funds (in transmission, or awaiting transmission) in trust. Ideally, the funds do shore up the amount of deposits shown on CBA's balance sheet. Safaricom only earns mobile levies charged for use of MPesa (withdraw/transfer). Any other monies earned from the MPesa Trust funds go straight to MPesa foundation. So once again, no bank interest/deposit income...
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 1,668 Location: nairobi
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Hypothetically speaking, if MPesa directors/CEOs were to sit down and decide to create more money , they would simply award themselves each a few billions in terms of MPesa credit. This can then be simply withdrawn from countrywide agents. This can cause serious inflation to the KES. CBK needs to regulate Mpesa within the same framework as De La Rue due to their unique ability to create money. As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/16/2012 Posts: 660
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a4architect.com wrote:Hypothetically speaking, if MPesa directors/CEOs were to sit down and decide to create more money , they would simply award themselves each a few billions in terms of MPesa credit. This can then be simply withdrawn from countrywide agents. This can cause serious inflation to the KES. CBK needs to regulate Mpesa within the same framework as De La Rue due to their unique ability to create money.  That is not possible. But the spirit is to educate each other. Hebu expound tafadhali. Live and learn; and don’t forget, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 1,668 Location: nairobi
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@museveni. Its a hypothetical situation. Bob Collymore and his team afcourse have the best of morals so they cant do this. Assuming someone with low morals were to convince the rest of the safcom top management to do this, there is nothing that will stop them from creating money by giving themselves each a few billion worth of mpesa credit. mpesa credit is simply just an sms that is verifiable by the same safcom management. Just the way de la rue management can decide to print their own money and use it, only that they are well regulated. As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/16/2012 Posts: 660
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a4architect.com wrote:@museveni. Its a hypothetical situation. Bob Collymore and his team afcourse have the best of morals so they cant do this. Assuming someone with low morals were to convince the rest of the safcom top management to do this, there is nothing that will stop them from creating money by giving themselves each a few billion worth of mpesa credit. mpesa credit is simply just an sms that is verifiable by the same safcom management. Just the way de la rue management can decide to print their own money and use it, only that they are well regulated. Again, that is not possible. There is a limit of 100K set [ involves CBK] for the maximum hold in an M-Pesa A/C. So no one can have a few billions in their A/C. Maybe if they deposited in the A/C's of the millions of their clients. Which would generate so much heat that Kamiti would be somebody's permanent residence for good. There is the paper trail & digital footprint for all the transactions making it impossible for anyone to even think of a plan as such. Live and learn; and don’t forget, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/2/2006 Posts: 1,206 Location: Nairobi
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Museveni wrote:a4architect.com wrote:@museveni. Its a hypothetical situation. Bob Collymore and his team afcourse have the best of morals so they cant do this. Assuming someone with low morals were to convince the rest of the safcom top management to do this, there is nothing that will stop them from creating money by giving themselves each a few billion worth of mpesa credit. mpesa credit is simply just an sms that is verifiable by the same safcom management. Just the way de la rue management can decide to print their own money and use it, only that they are well regulated. Again, that is not possible. There is a limit of 100K set [ involves CBK] for the maximum hold in an M-Pesa A/C. So no one can have a few billions in their A/C. Maybe if they deposited in the A/C's of the millions of their clients. Which would generate so much heat that Kamiti would be somebody's permanent residence for good. There is the paper trail & digital footprint for all the transactions making it impossible for anyone to even think of a plan as such. Suppose they were to award themselves "a few billions" even.I think there is a piece of math that must always tie.. Bank Balance In Mpesa Holding Ac(at CBA)= Summation of All Mpesa Balances (sum of all mpesa registered lines)One report is from CBA Bank....the other is from Safaricom.If they both don't materially disagree then we are safe....I think.Kweli? Formally employed people often live their employers' dream & forget about their own.
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/16/2012 Posts: 660
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bird_man wrote:Museveni wrote:a4architect.com wrote:@museveni. Its a hypothetical situation. Bob Collymore and his team afcourse have the best of morals so they cant do this. Assuming someone with low morals were to convince the rest of the safcom top management to do this, there is nothing that will stop them from creating money by giving themselves each a few billion worth of mpesa credit. mpesa credit is simply just an sms that is verifiable by the same safcom management. Just the way de la rue management can decide to print their own money and use it, only that they are well regulated. Again, that is not possible. There is a limit of 100K set [ involves CBK] for the maximum hold in an M-Pesa A/C. So no one can have a few billions in their A/C. Maybe if they deposited in the A/C's of the millions of their clients. Which would generate so much heat that Kamiti would be somebody's permanent residence for good. There is the paper trail & digital footprint for all the transactions making it impossible for anyone to even think of a plan as such. Suppose they were to award themselves "a few billions" even.I think there is a piece of math that must always tie.. Bank Balance In Mpesa Holding Ac(at CBA) = Summation of All Mpesa Balances (sum of all mpesa registered lines)One report is from CBA Bank....the other is from Safaricom.If they both don't materially disagree then we are safe....I think.Kweli? M-Pesa ≠ M-shwari Let us start from here. Funds in M-Pesa are held by SCOM. Therefore: Bank Balance In Mpesa Holding Ac(at CBA) ≠ Summation of All Mpesa Balances (sum of all mpesa registered lines)There are direct deposits, peer transactions, Other Banks transfers into M-Pesa A/C's But there is a transaction history which is verifiable IMHO. Live and learn; and don’t forget, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/15/2006 Posts: 3,905
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Sasa wewe mzee, which funds does Safaricom hold? Aren't they all held in banks, even their other billions in profit? So the issue becomes who's the beneficiary. And the beneficiary in MPesa and MShwari, apart from mobile owner as primary, is MPESA Trust NOT Safaricom Ltd. Museveni wrote:M-Pesa ≠ M-shwari
Let us start from here.
Funds in M-Pesa are held by SCOM.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/21/2010 Posts: 6,183 Location: nairobi
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Writing alot of lies,and contradicting yourself.if mpesa money is held by safcom then mpesa is not regulated.how can a non financial institution control the biggest financial chunk in an economy? "Don't let the fear of losing be greater than the excitement of winning."
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/16/2012 Posts: 660
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muganda wrote:Sasa wewe mzee, which funds does Safaricom hold? Aren't they all held in banks, even their other billions in profit? So the issue becomes who's the beneficiary. And the beneficiary in MPesa and MShwari, apart from mobile owner as primary, is MPESA Trust NOT Safaricom Ltd. Museveni wrote:M-Pesa ≠ M-shwari
Let us start from here.
Funds in M-Pesa are held by SCOM. M-Pesa funds are not ONLY held at CBA. True the company M-Pesa Holding Company has an account at CBA, but it also has other partnerships with other banks [KCB], so CBA A/C will not be the total summation of M-Pesa transactions. I stand to be corrected Live and learn; and don’t forget, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/20/2009 Posts: 1,402
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Museveni wrote:muganda wrote:Sasa wewe mzee, which funds does Safaricom hold? Aren't they all held in banks, even their other billions in profit? So the issue becomes who's the beneficiary. And the beneficiary in MPesa and MShwari, apart from mobile owner as primary, is MPESA Trust NOT Safaricom Ltd. Museveni wrote:M-Pesa ≠ M-shwari
Let us start from here.
Funds in M-Pesa are held by SCOM. M-Pesa funds are not ONLY held at CBA. True the company M-Pesa Holding Company has an account at CBA, but it also has other partnerships with other banks [KCB], so CBA A/C will not be the total summation of M-Pesa transactions. I stand to be corrected The total monies in all mpesa individual accounts have an equivallent total value at CBA M-PESa holding account. That includes any partnerships. KCB, Coop Bank, etc are authorised M-PESA super agents for float wholesale purchases by Dealers. That float held by the superagents is as well backed up at the CBA M-PESA holding account.
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/16/2012 Posts: 660
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Muheani wrote:Museveni wrote:muganda wrote:Sasa wewe mzee, which funds does Safaricom hold? Aren't they all held in banks, even their other billions in profit? So the issue becomes who's the beneficiary. And the beneficiary in MPesa and MShwari, apart from mobile owner as primary, is MPESA Trust NOT Safaricom Ltd. Museveni wrote:M-Pesa ≠ M-shwari
Let us start from here.
Funds in M-Pesa are held by SCOM. M-Pesa funds are not ONLY held at CBA. True the company M-Pesa Holding Company has an account at CBA, but it also has other partnerships with other banks [KCB], so CBA A/C will not be the total summation of M-Pesa transactions. I stand to be corrected The total monies in all mpesa individual accounts have an equivallent total value at CBA M-PESa holding account. That includes any partnerships. KCB, Coop Bank, etc are authorised M-PESA super agents for float wholesale purchases by Dealers. That float held by the superagents is as well backed up at the CBA M-PESA holding account. *Corrected Live and learn; and don’t forget, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/2/2006 Posts: 1,206 Location: Nairobi
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Museveni wrote:Muheani wrote:Museveni wrote:muganda wrote:Sasa wewe mzee, which funds does Safaricom hold? Aren't they all held in banks, even their other billions in profit? So the issue becomes who's the beneficiary. And the beneficiary in MPesa and MShwari, apart from mobile owner as primary, is MPESA Trust NOT Safaricom Ltd. Museveni wrote:M-Pesa ≠ M-shwari
Let us start from here.
Funds in M-Pesa are held by SCOM. M-Pesa funds are not ONLY held at CBA. True the company M-Pesa Holding Company has an account at CBA, but it also has other partnerships with other banks [KCB], so CBA A/C will not be the total summation of M-Pesa transactions. I stand to be corrected The total monies in all mpesa individual accounts have an equivallent total value at CBA M-PESa holding account. That includes any partnerships. KCB, Coop Bank, etc are authorised M-PESA super agents for float wholesale purchases by Dealers. That float held by the superagents is as well backed up at the CBA M-PESA holding account. *Corrected @Muheani...correct.thus Bank Balance In Mpesa Holding Ac(at CBA)= Summation of All Mpesa Balances (sum of all mpesa registered lines)This includes agents & balances in other banks.@Museveni.....get your facts right Sir. Formally employed people often live their employers' dream & forget about their own.
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/16/2012 Posts: 660
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bird_man wrote:Museveni wrote:
*Corrected
@Muheani...correct.thus Bank Balance In Mpesa Holding Ac(at CBA)= Summation of All Mpesa Balances (sum of all mpesa registered lines)This includes agents & balances in other banks.@Museveni.....get your facts right Sir. We learn everyday! Now to the issue about just 'bumping up' the virtual currency. The point I was stressing was that it isn't possible as suggested by @ a4architect.com Live and learn; and don’t forget, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/3/2010 Posts: 1,797 Location: Kenya
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bird_man wrote:Museveni wrote:a4architect.com wrote:@museveni. Its a hypothetical situation. Bob Collymore and his team afcourse have the best of morals so they cant do this. Assuming someone with low morals were to convince the rest of the safcom top management to do this, there is nothing that will stop them from creating money by giving themselves each a few billion worth of mpesa credit. mpesa credit is simply just an sms that is verifiable by the same safcom management. Just the way de la rue management can decide to print their own money and use it, only that they are well regulated. Again, that is not possible. There is a limit of 100K set [ involves CBK] for the maximum hold in an M-Pesa A/C. So no one can have a few billions in their A/C. Maybe if they deposited in the A/C's of the millions of their clients. Which would generate so much heat that Kamiti would be somebody's permanent residence for good. There is the paper trail & digital footprint for all the transactions making it impossible for anyone to even think of a plan as such. Suppose they were to award themselves "a few billions" even.I think there is a piece of math that must always tie.. Bank Balance In Mpesa Holding Ac(at CBA)= Summation of All Mpesa Balances (sum of all mpesa registered lines)One report is from CBA Bank....the other is from Safaricom.If they both don't materially disagree then we are safe....I think.Kweli? how often is the recon done because there is aloophole for a rogue safcon employee to make a few millions digital signature or not I may be wrong..but then I could be right
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/20/2009 Posts: 1,402
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bird_man wrote:Museveni wrote:Muheani wrote:Museveni wrote:muganda wrote:Sasa wewe mzee, which funds does Safaricom hold? Aren't they all held in banks, even their other billions in profit? So the issue becomes who's the beneficiary. And the beneficiary in MPesa and MShwari, apart from mobile owner as primary, is MPESA Trust NOT Safaricom Ltd. Museveni wrote:M-Pesa ≠ M-shwari
Let us start from here.
Funds in M-Pesa are held by SCOM. M-Pesa funds are not ONLY held at CBA. True the company M-Pesa Holding Company has an account at CBA, but it also has other partnerships with other banks [KCB], so CBA A/C will not be the total summation of M-Pesa transactions. I stand to be corrected The total monies in all mpesa individual accounts have an equivallent total value at CBA M-PESa holding account. That includes any partnerships. KCB, Coop Bank, etc are authorised M-PESA super agents for float wholesale purchases by Dealers. That float held by the superagents is as well backed up at the CBA M-PESA holding account. *Corrected @Muheani...correct.thus Bank Balance In Mpesa Holding Ac(at CBA)= Summation of All Mpesa Balances (sum of all mpesa registered lines)This includes agents & balances in other banks.@Museveni.....get your facts right Sir. True. True.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/21/2006 Posts: 1,590
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So are we saying that CBA reports these mpesa deposits on its balance sheet? The 100k maximum is an anti-money laundering rule. Sehemu ndio nyumba
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/15/2006 Posts: 3,905
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Museveni wrote:We learn everyday!
Now to the issue about just 'bumping up' the virtual currency.
The point I was stressing was that it isn't possible as suggested by @a4architect.com @a4architect's arguments quite interesting. Though realize many players in Commerce, in addition to banks, have ability to create fake value/assets/instruments of exchange and are hence regulated to different extents... e.g. money transfer companies, listed companies, ministry of lands, property developers, forex bureaus, inflows from Somali pirates etc.
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/16/2012 Posts: 660
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Mainat wrote:So are we saying that CBA reports these mpesa deposits on its balance sheet?
The 100k maximum is an anti-money laundering rule. Not all ends up in the balance sheet. Most of the money circulates within Subscribers. Only time there are entries relating to this 'M-Pesa Bank' is when the 'float' runs out for an Agent and either they have to top up or withdraw. Live and learn; and don’t forget, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,328 Location: Masada
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mlennyma wrote:You may b the stupid. Exactly. Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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