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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/22/2011 Posts: 1,325
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BGL wrote:Nabwire wrote:I think this sums it up
If you are
1. smart and driven.... go to the US
2. smart but not driven...stay in Kenya or go to Europe
3. not smart but driven...go to the US
4. not smart and not driven...go to Europe
This doesnt mean that there are no smart people in Europe or no driven people, it just means that the possibility of you enjoying that country are higher if you fall under certain parameters. @Nabwire where do you belong? Create a category for those people like me who have been to Europe and US but there is a strong magnetic force pulling them back to Kenya. Almost everyone who has lived abroad for a long period, eventually wants to go back to Kenya. I think brain drain is actually a good thing coz people come back with transferable skills and a different outlook on life. Where do I belong? After having lived in both the US and Europe, I belong in Kenya  I think progressive people in diaspora are always looking for ways to go back and build Kenya, but unfortunately there are alot of people who didnt have a plan and are trapped in the US, so I would say you are in the progressives lot!
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/28/2013 Posts: 182
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Does Canada belong to the States category ama ina yake? Aussie je? What of SA? Ama China?   Man must live!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2012 Posts: 5,222
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Nabwire wrote:BGL wrote:Nabwire wrote:I think this sums it up
If you are
1. smart and driven.... go to the US
2. smart but not driven...stay in Kenya or go to Europe
3. not smart but driven...go to the US
4. not smart and not driven...go to Europe
This doesnt mean that there are no smart people in Europe or no driven people, it just means that the possibility of you enjoying that country are higher if you fall under certain parameters. @Nabwire where do you belong? Create a category for those people like me who have been to Europe and US but there is a strong magnetic force pulling them back to Kenya. Almost everyone who has lived abroad for a long period, eventually wants to go back to Kenya. I think brain drain is actually a good thing coz people come back with transferable skills and a different outlook on life. Where do I belong? After having lived in both the US and Europe, I belong in Kenya I think progressive people in diaspora are always looking for ways to go back and build Kenya, but unfortunately there are alot of people who didnt have a plan and are trapped in the US, so I would say you are in the progressives lot! How can I gauge if I'm smart or driven? Some people say I'm smart, others say I'm not... even when I'm driving!  Worse still, the same person will call me smart and again not smart depending on their mood. Very confusing
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/22/2011 Posts: 1,325
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Smart is generally someone who got good grades, I hope you wont ask where good grades fall. Although smart can also be someone like a mama mboga who with hardly any education, never gives the wrong change. Driven is someone who wants to be financially independent, self employed vs employed. Although there are some people who are employed but very driven to climb up the corporate ladder. My definition of a person who is not driven is someone who works for 40 years at the same job, hardly gets a raise and still diligently works while complaining about how expensive life is. In my experience, the best type of people who make it in the US and love it are the smart people who use their intellect to get ahead and the mama mboga types who are extremely driven. The rest just fall through the cracks.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,328 Location: Masada
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And now this: ‘Green Card’ to be abolished by US government Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/30/2008 Posts: 6,029
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urstill wrote:Does Canada belong to the States category ama ina yake? Aussie je? What of SA? Ama China? Yes,an analysis of Canada,UAE,Australia is welcome.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/5/2010 Posts: 2,061 Location: Nairobi
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IMHO, before uprooting your Kenyan life and transferring it to Europe or the US, visit these places first. I have,..Europe is cold, the weather and the people, and very expensive ..and the US, there isn't as much money as one is led to believe if your certificates didn't come out of an American university, especially an Ivy League one; You could spend a lot, give up a lot then find yourself sorely missing the Kenyan culture of friendliness and warmth, broken infrastructure and 'funniness', as Michael Joseph put it.
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/17/2010 Posts: 572
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quicksand wrote:IMHO, before uprooting your Kenyan life and transferring it to Europe or the US, visit these places first. I have,..Europe is cold, the weather and the people, and very expensive ..and the US, there isn't as much money as one is led to believe if your certificates didn't come out of an American university, especially an Ivy League one; You could spend a lot, give up a lot then find yourself sorely missing the Kenyan culture of friendliness and warmth, broken infrastructure and 'funniness', as Michael Joseph put it. I concur 'One headache for famous medieval holy people was that someone might murder you to acquire your body parts for the relics trade'
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/6/2010 Posts: 741 Location: Nairobi
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I would like an opinion about the Middle East, especially Qatar. Anybody with experience???
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/23/2009 Posts: 2,375
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chepkel wrote:I would like an opinion about the Middle East, especially Qatar. Anybody with experience??? You can expect things like this. http://www.bbc.co.uk/new...rld-middle-east-22010122It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt...
-Mark Twain
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Rank: Member Joined: 9/2/2010 Posts: 563 Location: Embakasi
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chepkel wrote:I would like an opinion about the Middle East, especially Qatar. Anybody with experience??? No personal experience but I once looked into applying for a job in Qatar and came online to read experiences of other immigrants. Generally the perception was that unless you are working as a mid to high level professional in a reputable international organisation, you should not expect good treatment. Placed in immigrant estates and unable to leave the estate except for work. Plus you must get permission from your employer for an exit visa so you are basically trapped unless your employer is very kind. Kenya any day, though UK was okay in the early to mid 2000s. In a place where thought is abandoned, freedom can become a curse.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/21/2006 Posts: 1,590
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Nabwire-which Europe is that you went to? My view is that Kenyans can make it anywhere in this world because most are smart and very hardworking. US-work hard, be smart, don't question your boss, you'll go far. Europe (esp UK)-workhard, be smart, avoid politics, drink moderately, you'll go far. Asia (i.e. Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, China)-workhard, be technically very competent, the world is your oyster ME-similar to Asia Sehemu ndio nyumba
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/6/2010 Posts: 741 Location: Nairobi
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I was hoping to hear stories from professional's living there. But thanks for you insights.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/30/2008 Posts: 6,029
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chepkel wrote:I was hoping to hear stories from professional's living there. But thanks for you insights. Luttz is there lakini hapatikani.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/7/2011 Posts: 410
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Ive learnt a lot from this thread, thanx to Impunity
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/22/2011 Posts: 1,325
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Mainat I didn't include the UK in my definition of Europe, I was talking about western Europe. But in general I think Europe and UK, there is a glass ceiling, especially if you are an immigrant. I was shocked to find out that low paying jobs like McDonald's were reserved for natives, in the US that's the exact opposite. So I feel like you can achieve more in the US than in Europe, and you better speak their language in whatever European country you are in, otherwise you are not getting anywhere.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/5/2010 Posts: 2,061 Location: Nairobi
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Mainat wrote:Nabwire-which Europe is that you went to?
My view is that Kenyans can make it anywhere in this world because most are smart and very hardworking.
US-work hard, be smart, don't question your boss, you'll go far.
Europe (esp UK)-workhard, be smart, avoid politics, drink moderately, you'll go far.
Asia (i.e. Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, China)-workhard, be technically very competent, the world is your oyster
ME-similar to Asia Nope @Mainat, it's not always about working hard. For instance, European Union labour law says that individuals who are not citizens can only fill certain jobs if a qualified EU citizen cannot be found - with a lengthy documents/procedures obstacle course to boot. It is the same in America. Read this: http://www.economist.com...-what-it-needs-own-goal
Wise to study labour laws of the West, they stack insurmountable odds in the paths of immigrants.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/21/2006 Posts: 1,590
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Nabwire/Quicksand-I was talking about professional jobs. With perhaps the exception of Canada and ANZ, very few countries now allow watu wa kazi ya mikono to migrate. Nabwire-wrong. In Germany,Swiss and Belgium, you can get English speaking professional roles. Sehemu ndio nyumba
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2008 Posts: 2,702
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quicksand wrote:IMHO, before uprooting your Kenyan life and transferring it to Europe or the US, visit these places first. I have,..Europe is cold, the weather and the people, and very expensive ..and the US, there isn't as much money as one is led to believe if your certificates didn't come out of an American university, especially an Ivy League one; You could spend a lot, give up a lot then find yourself sorely missing the Kenyan culture of friendliness and warmth, broken infrastructure and 'funniness', as Michael Joseph put it. Kweli kabisa. You would never believe it but the things you miss are the day to day things that you take for granted. The noise of the streets and matatus, smell of nyama choma, eating fruits by the roadside..... oh the taste of bananas...... reading newspapers, not keeping time........making appointments with your friends by calling and asking "we boss, uko wapi?" and then showing up 10 minutes later as opposed to having to plan 2 weeks in advance.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/10/2008 Posts: 9,131 Location: Kanjo
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quicksand wrote:Mainat wrote:Nabwire-which Europe is that you went to?
My view is that Kenyans can make it anywhere in this world because most are smart and very hardworking.
US-work hard, be smart, don't question your boss, you'll go far.
Europe (esp UK)-workhard, be smart, avoid politics, drink moderately, you'll go far.
Asia (i.e. Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, China)-workhard, be technically very competent, the world is your oyster
ME-similar to Asia Nope @Mainat, it's not always about working hard. For instance, European Union labour law says that individuals who are not citizens can only fill certain jobs if a qualified EU citizen cannot be found - with a lengthy documents/procedures obstacle course to boot. It is the same in America. Read this: http://www.economist.com...-what-it-needs-own-goal
Wise to study labour laws of the West, they stack insurmountable odds in the paths of immigrants. yet back here mr. mapambano is dishing visa's left, right and centre to everyone!! NKT i.am.back!!!!
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