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Machaba
Amores
#11 Posted : Tuesday, February 26, 2013 10:08:50 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/25/2011
Posts: 2,103
Location: Nrb
muganda wrote:
I think it is very sad to talk about Kenyatta family land without regretting the injustice to the majority of Kenyans.
“In truth, laws are always useful to those with possessions and harmful to those who have nothing" Jean-Jacques Rosseau





you will see them next week on Monday at 6am, watajaza hizo debe mshangae

DNA ni TNA
I am happy
Manyala
#12 Posted : Tuesday, February 26, 2013 10:16:33 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/8/2011
Posts: 482
Location: Nairobi
jamplu wrote:
mawinder wrote:
Manyala wrote:
mawinder wrote:
Motomoto wrote:
"Willing Buyer, Willing Seller”. Did Jomo Kenyatta buy these farms? If so how much did he pay for them? I think Uhuru lied here.

Bring the people whom mzee grabbed land from and let them have all the documentary evidence,not gossip.


Uhuru should parade the 'willing sellers', since he has the documentation of the said' willing sellers'; whom interestingly were 'willing' to sell to Mzee Kenyatta, 30,000 acres of their land?

Your ignorance is baffling.At no one time is anyone required to adduce evidence in a nonexistent case.What you are asking cannot be achieved unless the court orders so you have to believe UMK or file a suit and claim your land if any.DONT bring here gossip.If you accuse him,table the evidence.


Gossip!! we are truly blinded by our political affiliations. I wish we could discuss the land issues in june or july after we cool down and after some people have had the opportunity to go to taveta and seen for themselves the land problem there or have gone to the colonial villages in central kenya and talked to the old men who weren't allowed to go back to their ancestral homes or have had a talk with the people of kwale whom we think are just a nuisance when they chant pwani si kenya na wabara warudi kwao!




@Mawinder, tulia. What Gossip? Just address the issues. Uhuru is on public trail. He accepted that they own 30,000 acres. To clear his name, the easiest thing to do, just they way he admitted having the said acreage, is to produce transaction documents, proving the 'willing buyer, will seller'. Please remember his mother has a case in court regarding land she is alleged to have taken without the owner's concent.
muganda
#13 Posted : Tuesday, February 26, 2013 10:19:50 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/15/2006
Posts: 3,908
Amores wrote:
you will see them next week on Monday at 6am, watajaza hizo debe mshangae

DNA ni TNA


Quite disappointing your response @Amores, for if TNA assumes government is it now Ok? Or does it mean a Raila presidency gives relief to those disenfranchised through Molasses saga?

Let us vote, but we owe our fellow Kenyans much more than blind cheers...

passiveinvestor
#14 Posted : Tuesday, February 26, 2013 11:16:16 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 12/8/2006
Posts: 104



[/quote]

@Mawinder, tulia. What Gossip? Just address the issues. Uhuru is on public trail. He accepted that they own 30,000 acres. To clear his name, the easiest thing to do, just they way he admitted having the said acreage, is to produce transaction documents, proving the 'willing buyer, will seller'. Please remember his mother has a case in court regarding land she is alleged to have taken without the owner's concent. [/quote]
@Manyala
1. There's no such acceptable thing as a "Public Trial" That's why we have courts
2. No one needs to prove innocence when not charged / sued in court.
3. Regarding Mama I'm sure most candidates must have some relative somewhere who's been sued for something. The mere existence of a Lawsuit against a rela can't mean there's an offense by the candidate...
4. She appears to have presented documents for purchase as part of her defense so perhaps wait for the court ruling?
Manyala
#15 Posted : Tuesday, February 26, 2013 11:26:49 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/8/2011
Posts: 482
Location: Nairobi
passiveinvestor wrote:





@Mawinder, tulia. What Gossip? Just address the issues. Uhuru is on public trail. He accepted that they own 30,000 acres. To clear his name, the easiest thing to do, just they way he admitted having the said acreage, is to produce transaction documents, proving the 'willing buyer, will seller'. Please remember his mother has a case in court regarding land she is alleged to have taken without the owner's concent. [/quote]
@Manyala
1. There's no such acceptable thing as a "Public Trial" That's why we have courts
2. No one needs to prove innocence when not charged / sued in court.
3. Regarding Mama I'm sure most candidates must have some relative somewhere who's been sued for something. The mere existence of a Lawsuit against a rela can't mean there's an offense by the candidate...
4. She appears to have presented documents for purchase as part of her defense so perhaps wait for the court ruling? [/quote]

Again we avoid the issue. Prove they bought the 30,000 acres; willing buyer, willing seller. After all that is what he said. Let him prove it.

Mama; agreed, but relating to Machaba?
Coincidence? Hmmm.

Mama; please understand the case. From what is being reported, we wants the case NOT to be heard. I wonder why? Hmmm
Kusadikika
#16 Posted : Wednesday, February 27, 2013 3:46:03 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 2,723
The Land Commission should be formed quickly to address these issues because this "Historical injustices" is a dangerous thing that should be handled delicately. Before the mzungu came to Kenya there were no title deeds. So he surveyed the land and put up boundaries. Of course the people living there were displaced. I am sure there was a certain Maasai who was displaced from what is now the KICC, Parliament buildings, basically the whole of CBD. There was an original owner of the land you claim to be yours in South B, Syokimau or Langata. The reason you do not feel like a land grabber is that the mzungu who first grabbed it was given a title deed that gave him legal right to own the land and you are now the 4th or fifth owner down that legal grabber's line.

The deal at independence was that the new government would recognize all titles issued by the British. The settlers who had title would sell it to the locals on a willing buyer, willing seller basis. Of course the people who were in the first government had two advantages, they had access to information (they knew which farms were up for sale where) and two they also had access to capital. They were more educated and had salaries and access to loans. So it is not any wonder that the Kenyatta's bought land in thousands of acres. Remember that Kenyatta became president at 74 years old and had lived in the Britain for about 15 years from 1931 to 1946.

After independence people and institutions organized themselves to buy land (Of course they were buying from the wazungus who had grabbed it from some Africans). So people from central Kenya organized themselves to buy land in Rift Valley. A group of say a thousand people would form a company and approach a mzungu who had say 10,000 acres. They would form a company with say 9000 shares and each would buy as many shares as they could. So some people had more shares than others. The land would be divided into plots equal to a share and then each would get as many as plots as his number of shares.

Of course the most well known buyers were the Kikuyu in Rift Valley but people forget that that is the same way Luhyas got to own land in Trans Nzoia and other parts of Uasin Ngishu. Of course some of the first owners sold and people from other communities bought.

If Kenyatta's title to his 30,000 acres in Taita is not legal, you put into question the legality of any Kikuyu, Luhya, Kisii to own even a quarter of an acre in Rift Valley and places like Nairobi that were originally not theirs. I am sure there is a Wazuan or two who have bought land in Karen from John Keen or bought a plot in Runda from Mbugua Githere or from someone who originally bought from Githere. You have as much claim to your land as Kenyatta has to his Taita land.

How far back in history do we go to correct historical injustices? Do we stop with the coming of the mzungu or do we even go back further to say the Bantus came from Cameroon Forest and the Nilotes from South Sudan?
maka
#17 Posted : Wednesday, February 27, 2013 7:31:09 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
Angelica _ann wrote:
Anyway let the so called willing seller suffer because at end of the day they will still support the willing buyers. i feel nothing for them.

...spot on the guys who suffer the most make the same mistakes over and over again they need divine intervention while they are waiting for it let them feel where the shoe pinches the most.
possunt quia posse videntur
Nomanoma
#18 Posted : Wednesday, February 27, 2013 7:49:29 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/7/2011
Posts: 117
Location: Nairobi
maka wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
Anyway let the so called willing seller suffer because at end of the day they will still support the willing buyers. i feel nothing for them.

...spot on the guys who suffer the most make the same mistakes over and over again they need divine intervention while they are waiting for it let them feel where the shoe pinches the most.

this is not fair. People should wake up.
alma
#19 Posted : Wednesday, February 27, 2013 7:52:03 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
@Kusadikika your post is hopefully the beginning of soberness in this land issue.

There was injustice to someone. Question is how far do we go and what can be done to rectify seeing that we've come so many years after.

But the ones who suffered must have a voice.

When we have concurrent gov't's pretending that its too late or its too hard to deal with this issue, it will continue to fester and even those with fake claims will lend their voice. Ala the fake IDP's.

Sobriety is paramount. Pretending that these complaining Kenyans are crazy is the epitome of foolhardiness. But a solution must be sought and the truth declared on exactly what happened to people's inheritances. It's that simple.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
maka
#20 Posted : Wednesday, February 27, 2013 8:34:42 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
Nomanoma wrote:
maka wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
Anyway let the so called willing seller suffer because at end of the day they will still support the willing buyers. i feel nothing for them.

...spot on the guys who suffer the most make the same mistakes over and over again they need divine intervention while they are waiting for it let them feel where the shoe pinches the most.

this is not fair. People should wake up.

...you can take a cow to the river but you can never force it to drink water,
possunt quia posse videntur
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