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IMF: Kenya's economy self reliant, don't need EU
mkeiyd
#141 Posted : Wednesday, February 20, 2013 11:40:05 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/26/2012
Posts: 1,182
Nabwire wrote:
Mkeiyd I dont even know where to begin. First for the record I am not an Uhuruto fan as you assume, I just refused to sit in silence and watch his character assassinated, while people peddle cheap rumors to instill fear and make people not vote for him. I believe in fairness, if you cant fairly beat Uhuru, dont resort to coercion and blackmail. Then onto freedom, im just baffled. After the Iraq war, it was very common for Americans to have have 'freedom is not free' stickers on their cars, just think about that for a minute. You say the Chinese, Koreans etc have freeom to vacation and enjoy life, have you ever thought of how they got to that level? Do you think by always toeing the line, you will get to their level? The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. With your thinking, you will never be free, you will always remain subservient, but then again freedom does not mean alot to you. And what exactly do you understand by doing business on their terms? What does factory work have to do with terms? You know how many times China has been told not to do business with this or that country, but they still went ahead and did so, that the definition of doing business on your terms. You have your reasons for voting whomever will make sure those ships go to Mombasa before Dar, and someone else has their reasons for voting the opposite. Thats what free and fair elections are, may the best person win. I'm not here to make you vote in one way or another, but you have to respect the choice that the majority make, and that choice ought to be made without fear and coercion.


@Nabwire, Is yours a discussion or an ARGUMENT? Coz if you are arguing, i can't help you. You discuss to get to the truth,the facts.You argue to WIN,and that's what i get from your post.Morphing previous points/reasons to totally different stuff after getting response to them.
Now you are telling to vote whomever will bring vessels to Mombasa before Dar.

If you forgot,the discussion was and still is,whether Kenya doesn't need Europe [which i take to mean the West].If i need to vote somebody who'll bring those vessels,then clearly,we do NEED Europe.
About the part in red,i know how they got to where they are.When they are trading with the West,it is not on their terms. It is a common joke in S.Korea that they are the 51st state of US.Do you know why?Majority of their policies are tuned as per US requirements. Have you ever been to a Chinese factory making stuff for the West? It borders on slavery,long hours of work,sleeping in factory dormitories,earning wages that the poorest of the Westerners can never be paid. Take a visit to China,S.Korea,Cambodia [Pol Pot's change society],Vietnam [they fought the Americans], the average man on the street will tell you how they see the west,as is who is the West.
Do you know when Hong Kong got their independence? In 1997. Can we say we are better than them because we have been FREE?

Real FREEDOM is having an empowered POPULACE.
Kenya will be powerful hence "free" by trading with everybody who offers to trade with us.
When shipping,the most reliable shipping line is Maersk of Holland,one can go East but they are not that reliable,it won't be funny to chase your shipment for 3 months,one middle eastern line is notorious for that.
When exporting/importing, not unless you are shipping from/to China [excluding Japan in this post] you have the limited option of paying or getting paid in Yuan. You have to use USD or Euro.

We DON'T import oil using Yuan,the Yuan can't help us in that regard..

@murchr, Not all countries develop by consuming their products,they need to export in order to import machinery and other inputs. That's how we got the ASIAN TIGERS. Their economies have been EXPORT-ORIENTED.
A poor Kenyan will first buy unga before buying kisii soap stone carvings.But the day the average Kenyan won't be as poor as it is today,they'll gladly buy even decorated ostrich eggs.

So sticking to the discussion, WE NEED THE WEST/EU. Voting suspects won't help in that regard.
Metasploit
#142 Posted : Wednesday, February 20, 2013 12:15:01 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/26/2012
Posts: 985
Location: Dar es salaam,Tanzania
Going thru this thread and from what i listen,a majority of Kenyans are very Ignorant.Even the supposedly educated.

The argument should be, why would electing Uhuruto warrant sanctions/broken diplomacy from the West (We are NOT sponsoring terrorists etc) and not if Kenya economy will suffer should sanctions be imposed (coz it WILL definately suffer excessively should sanctions be imposed by the west ).


“The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.”
Pick n Pay
#143 Posted : Wednesday, February 20, 2013 1:37:52 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 1/29/2013
Posts: 45
Location: South Africa
If only life was this straight forward
Greed is fear.
Nabwire
#144 Posted : Wednesday, February 20, 2013 8:55:09 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/22/2011
Posts: 1,325
Quicksand, I chose not to argue on your other points coz the opportunity cost of spending time debating you, was lower than that of studying for my exams. You can call it feigning interest, I choose what and who I want to debate, its life. I know when someone is debating, and when they are playing politics, I would rather not play politics, so unfortunately I will not take your bait. I set out to debunk the false opinion that an Uhuru presidency automatically means sanctions, I just wanted to level the playing field. Your assertion that Raila was not charged by a court of law and thus cannot be asked to withdraw, is in my opinion why TNA supporters are very passionate, they feel like there is no level playing field. I dont need a court to tell me who said and did what after elections, thats why otherwise reasonable people will not buy the clear your name first argument.
Mkeiyd, I get that you are completely passionate about shipping and which ship docks where first. There are others on the other hand who care about the exact opposite. You can shout yourself hoarse, it wont change anything, you cant expect people to vote in a certain way coz your business will benefit from that way.I'm a very open minded person, but I havent seen any good campaigning for your candidate, you have instead focused on discrediting your opponent, that wont get you votes. Just as a reference, workers working long hours in China does not fall under doing business under your own terms, it falls under capitalism and its effects of exploitation if left unchecked.
I totally have class and exams, so goodluck to the best candidate
simonkabz
#145 Posted : Wednesday, February 20, 2013 9:18:02 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
Quote:

The United States has said it
will punish companies that
facilitate financial
transactions with Iran’s
Central Bank, which clears oil
deals, by excluding them from
the U.S. market. Such
measures have already been
taken on Chinese oil firm Zu
Hai Zhen Rong, which was
thought by some to be largely
symbolic as this company
does little business with Iran.
However, the move
underpinned Washington’s
resolve on the issue.
Several countries are currently
in the process of negotiating
with the United States on an
individual basis to determine
the exact conditions of
possible trade embargoes
with Iran.
Among them, Japan is in a
particularly delicate
predicament. Following the
devastating tsunami last year,
the Japanese government was
forced to close down many of
the country’s nuclear power
stations, dramatically
increasing its reliance on
imported oil. In order to
avoid its financial institutions
being shut out of the crucial
U.S. market, Tokyo will have
to reduce oil imports from
Iran to levels considered
satisfactory to officials in
Washington.
Tokyo is currently in the
process of finishing up
negotiations with Washington
regarding how much Japan
has to cut its Iranian oil
imports in order to win
waivers from the U.S.
sanction. Japan’s Yomiuri
Newspaper, citing
unidentified sources, has said
that Japan and the United
States are likely to settle on an 11 percent cut.'


Oh great Kenya. The superpower.
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
quicksand
#146 Posted : Wednesday, February 20, 2013 9:34:00 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/5/2010
Posts: 2,061
Location: Nairobi
These are deep waters @Nabwire, and you are now clutching at straws.
Good luck with your exams.
For Sport
#147 Posted : Wednesday, February 20, 2013 10:01:54 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/23/2010
Posts: 1,229
Metasploit wrote:
Going thru this thread and from what i listen,a majority of Kenyans are very Ignorant.Even the supposedly educated.

The argument should be, why would electing Uhuruto warrant sanctions/broken diplomacy from the West (We are NOT sponsoring terrorists etc) and not if Kenya economy will suffer should sanctions be imposed (coz it WILL definately suffer excessively should sanctions be imposed by the west ).


guru267
#148 Posted : Wednesday, February 20, 2013 10:27:31 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
www.the-star.co.ke/news/...2448/muthaura-uhuru-quit

oh how fast we forget!

The comments from Mutunga and the EU in the article are interesting!
1. It shows a real possibility that the supreme court will rule that Uhuru's presidency is unconstitutional if he is elected..

2. The EU will cut ties with or without sanctions!
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
Liv
#149 Posted : Wednesday, February 20, 2013 11:24:32 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/14/2006
Posts: 1,311
guru267 wrote:
www.the-star.co.ke/news/article-32448/muthaura-uhuru-quit

oh how fast we forget!

The comments from Mutunga and the EU in the article are interesting!
1. It shows a real possibility that the supreme court will rule that Uhuru's presidency is unconstitutional if he is elected..

2. The EU will cut ties with or without sanctions!


My sister,
You are still on this matter?

I did not see any comments from Mutunga in this article.... What did he actually say?

I can confirm to you....If Uhuru wins the presidency... none of those things you have been predicting here like sanctions and economic upheavils will happen to Kenya.
guru267
#150 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2013 1:40:09 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
Liv wrote:
guru267 wrote:
www.the-star.co.ke/news/article-32448/muthaura-uhuru-quit

oh how fast we forget!

The comments from Mutunga and the EU in the article are interesting!
1. It shows a real possibility that the supreme court will rule that Uhuru's presidency is unconstitutional if he is elected..

2. The EU will cut ties with or without sanctions!


My sister,
You are still on this matter?

I did not see any comments from Mutunga in this article.... What did he actually say?

I can confirm to you....If Uhuru wins the presidency... none of those things you have been predicting here like sanctions and economic upheavils will happen to Kenya.


Now Mungiki are trying to threaten the poor man!

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21519868
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
aemathenge
#151 Posted : Saturday, February 23, 2013 9:26:33 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/18/2008
Posts: 3,434
Location: Kerugoya
Copy and Paste:

Without doubt, a Jubilee Kenya will provide international relations with yet-to-be-named new category, a mongrel between a “rogue democracy” (Tunisia, Egypt or the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip) and a “pariah state” (Sudan, Iran or North Korea). Kenyan voters must take a patriotic stand on March 4 to secure the country’s future.

But it is not clear how far the West is ready to go in unraveling long-standing diplomatic, military and economic ties with Kenya, a pivotal state in the US-led war on terror.

By: Prof Peter Kagwanja is the President and CEO of the Africa Policy Institute.

http://elections.nation....2/-/11884mo/-/index.html
josiah33
#152 Posted : Sunday, February 24, 2013 10:47:29 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/27/2011
Posts: 1,777
guru267 wrote:
Liv wrote:
guru267 wrote:
www.the-star.co.ke/news/article-32448/muthaura-uhuru-quit

oh how fast we forget!

The comments from Mutunga and the EU in the article are interesting!
1. It shows a real possibility that the supreme court will rule that Uhuru's presidency is unconstitutional if he is elected..

2. The EU will cut ties with or without sanctions!


My sister,
You are still on this matter?

I did not see any comments from Mutunga in this article.... What did he actually say?

I can confirm to you....If Uhuru wins the presidency... none of those things you have been predicting here like sanctions and economic upheavils will happen to Kenya.


Now Mungiki are trying to threaten the poor man!

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21519868

Victor Owuor is the suspect at the moment.
hisah
#153 Posted : Monday, February 25, 2013 7:51:25 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/4/2010
Posts: 8,977
Quite interesting this made it to publication in DN past the editor - http://www.nation.co.ke/...6/-/h9h31v/-/index.html

$15/barrel oil... The commodities lehman moment arrives as well as Sovereign debt volcano!
guru267
#154 Posted : Monday, February 25, 2013 8:29:17 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
How can jubilee achieve a 2nd round victory with all the other candidates all tipped to join CORD in a run off??

www.elections.nation.co....82/-/968616/-/index.html
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
ChessMaster
#155 Posted : Monday, February 25, 2013 9:22:21 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/23/2009
Posts: 1,626
hisah wrote:
Quite interesting this made it to publication in DN past the editor - http://www.nation.co.ke/...6/-/h9h31v/-/index.html



I'm intend to get books from this lady,Dambisa Moyo.They seem like they will be on the same level:

1.Dead Aid: Why Aid is Not Working and How There is a Better Way For Africa (2009)

2.How the West Was Lost: Fifty Years of Economic Folly – And the Stark Choices that Lie Ahead (2011)

3.Winner Take All: China's Race for Resources and What It Means for the World (June 2012)
Uncertainty is certain.Let go
hisah
#156 Posted : Monday, February 25, 2013 9:35:09 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/4/2010
Posts: 8,977
ChessMaster wrote:
hisah wrote:
Quite interesting this made it to publication in DN past the editor - http://www.nation.co.ke/...6/-/h9h31v/-/index.html



I'm intend to get books from this lady,Dambisa Moyo.They seem like they will be on the same level:

1.Dead Aid: Why Aid is Not Working and How There is a Better Way For Africa (2009)

2.How the West Was Lost: Fifty Years of Economic Folly – And the Stark Choices that Lie Ahead (2011)

3.Winner Take All: China's Race for Resources and What It Means for the World (June 2012)

Also add Naomi Klein on your list. Read 'Disaster Capitalism'.

As well as Vijay Prashad's 'The Poorer Nations' - http://www.versobooks.co...1150-the-poorer-nations

$15/barrel oil... The commodities lehman moment arrives as well as Sovereign debt volcano!
Sufficiently Philanga....thropic
#157 Posted : Monday, February 25, 2013 9:58:24 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2010
Posts: 2,220
Location: Sundowner,Amboseli
guru267 wrote:
How can jubilee achieve a 2nd round victory with all the other candidates all tipped to join CORD in a run off??

www.elections.nation.co....82/-/968616/-/index.html

It's soo sad that you have reduced yourself to a politician. Your credibility & authority here in the Investor section is fast waningSad
Have you been paid?
@SufficientlyP
ChessMaster
#158 Posted : Monday, February 25, 2013 9:59:44 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/23/2009
Posts: 1,626
hisah wrote:
ChessMaster wrote:
hisah wrote:
Quite interesting this made it to publication in DN past the editor - http://www.nation.co.ke/...6/-/h9h31v/-/index.html



I'm intend to get books from this lady,Dambisa Moyo.They seem like they will be on the same level:

1.Dead Aid: Why Aid is Not Working and How There is a Better Way For Africa (2009)

2.How the West Was Lost: Fifty Years of Economic Folly – And the Stark Choices that Lie Ahead (2011)

3.Winner Take All: China's Race for Resources and What It Means for the World (June 2012)

Also add Naomi Klein on your list. Read 'Disaster Capitalism'.

As well as Vijay Prashad's 'The Poorer Nations' - http://www.versobooks.co...1150-the-poorer-nations



I'll make sure I do.Still looking for time I finish reading the book you recommended.The Richard D. Wyckoff Method of Trading and Investing in Stocks.
Uncertainty is certain.Let go
Cde Monomotapa
#159 Posted : Monday, February 25, 2013 10:15:06 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/13/2011
Posts: 5,964
Interesting http://m.allafrica.com/s...ra_mb_no%26channel%3Dbh & now that its Advocates have held the Finance docket since the GNU in '09... #Fail http://www.newzimbabwe.c...g+anyone+Biti/news.aspx
ChessMaster
#160 Posted : Monday, February 25, 2013 10:30:34 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/23/2009
Posts: 1,626
Cde Monomotapa wrote:
Interesting http://m.allafrica.com/s...ra_mb_no%26channel%3Dbh & now that its Advocates have held the Finance docket since the GNU in '09... #Fail http://www.newzimbabwe.c...g+anyone+Biti/news.aspx


Interesting.China and its impact on sanctioned countries.
Uncertainty is certain.Let go
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