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Sanctions unlikely- The tide is turning
Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/26/2012 Posts: 1,182
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Shotgun wrote:Someone please educate me:
Supposing in a free and fair and democratic elections the citizens of Kenya elect UhuRuto who in turn promise to fully cooperate with the ICC process and then apply to the same court for flexible schedules to attend court due to their new roles.
Will we still be subject to sanctions?
If yes,
Who exactly will be issuing those sanctions?
For what reasons will they be issuing the sanctions?
@Shotgun, Just as @Obi has put it, if the above happens, there won't be sanctions. How i wish if the two get elected,do cooperate with the ICC. Ideal, perfect world we would be having in our Kenya. The thing is, the world ain't IDEAL nor PERFECT. It's no guess work,with a constitution shielding you,you would be dragging yourself to the Hague,spending weeks their with cabinet meetings to be chaired and bills to be assented to. One would be the dumbest of dumbest of morons to expect the duo to say they won't cooperate once they are sworn. It would have been easier to tell Mdvd that his document won't be honored than expecting them to say they won't cooperate with the ICC. Those who are of the opinion the ICC will work around the duo's convenience should ask themselves why Bashir hasn't allowed the ICC to work around his convenience?
All along,ICC has been stating that,theirs is a legal process,not a political one. Bringing issues of "a busy president" is tantamount to bringing politics to a legal process. That might prompt ICC to ask the duo why they chose to run,{the ICC didn't bother with the political process}? In short, a president is shielded from any sort of criminal proceedings by the constitution. Woe unto the deputy,i don't think he/she is shielded. Remember, justice delayed is justice denied.
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/25/2010 Posts: 415
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/25/2010 Posts: 415
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harrydre wrote:CORD is killing itself with the land issue. UK will not allow a Mugabe coup on their white farmers so they rather support the suspects. after all PEV did not affect any of their own. I agree with you..land is a very divisive issue..consider this..majority of Kenyans live in mashinani with farming as their livelihood. Now you start talking land, you will piss a lot of people off who will think you want to take away their land..as an example, imagine how a maasai will react to this land talk.. Cord needs the services of Dick Morris..their strategy is not good. It's not hard to make decisions when you know what your values are.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/25/2011 Posts: 2,103 Location: Nrb
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story teller wrote:harrydre wrote:CORD is killing itself with the land issue. UK will not allow a Mugabe coup on their white farmers so they rather support the suspects. after all PEV did not affect any of their own. I agree with you..land is a very divisive issue..consider this..majority of Kenyans live in mashinani with farming as their livelihood. Now you start talking land, you will piss a lot of people off who will think you want to take away their land..as an example, imagine how a maasai will react to this land talk.. Cord needs the services of Dick Morris..their strategy is not good. Wewe @ storyteller,niomba kura yake iende kwa digital team. CORD is an idea whose time is gone,Jubilee is an idea whose time has come. Come,join us . I am happy
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/10/2008 Posts: 9,131 Location: Kanjo
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story teller wrote:harrydre wrote:CORD is killing itself with the land issue. UK will not allow a Mugabe coup on their white farmers so they rather support the suspects. after all PEV did not affect any of their own. I agree with you..land is a very divisive issue..consider this..majority of Kenyans live in mashinani with farming as their livelihood. Now you start talking land, you will piss a lot of people off who will think you want to take away their land..as an example, imagine how a maasai will react to this land talk.. Cord needs the services of Dick Morris..their strategy is not good. Hapana...last time he was here you know what happened. he is the type that advocates for street demonstrations and mass action and he has done it in some eastern European nation. i.am.back!!!!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,335 Location: Masada
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McReggae wrote:harrydre wrote:CORD is killing itself with the land issue. UK will not allow a Mugabe coup on their white farmers so they rather support the suspects. after all PEV did not affect any of their own. CORD is killing itself yet you are using the IG and Kibunja to muzzle the discussion on land!!! You will need stronger pills as we near March 4th. Ulcer central.  Kibunjia = Kiuk-umba?  Kimaiyo = Kaleo-doscope? Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/31/2008 Posts: 1,076
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Shotgun wrote:B.Timer wrote:Shotgun wrote:Someone please educate me:
Supposing in a free and fair and democratic elections the citizens of Kenya elect UhuRuto who in turn promise to fully cooperate with the ICC process and then apply to the same court for flexible schedules to attend court due to their new roles.
Will we still be subject to sanctions?
If yes,
Who exactly will be issuing those sanctions?
For what reasons will they be issuing the sanctions?
In such a situation, there would be no sanctions. But then you have to quit Utopia pronto, for that is not practical! Once you appear before a Court you are subject to the schedule of the Court and not your Business/Political/family, etc conveniences. The Court can even find that you dont deserve bail and have you put under confinement. Thanks B.Timer. FYI, mine was not utopia but conjecture. For the sake of the points you raise... Supposing the court doesn't even give them a favourable schedule, but they win fairly and cooperate fully. Will we still see sanctions? I reckon the issue of how they run the government from the Hague now becomes valid. Does the Kenyan Constitution/any other Kenyan Law even contemplate such a situation? What does the law of impeachment provide? IMO, such a situation will be handled politically. The party with the majority in both Houses will decide whether the two will govern us from the Hague or not. What you contemplate is simply unconscionable. Think of the ignominy of Kenya's CiC being ordered around and possibly handcuffed in foreign land in full glare of the World via video links etc. Bear in mind too, that they may not even be around to be sworn in. It's just murky! Kenya should not be sucked into suck convoluted shenanigans. Dunia ni msongamano..
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,588
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B.Timer wrote:Shotgun wrote:B.Timer wrote:Shotgun wrote:Someone please educate me:
Supposing in a free and fair and democratic elections the citizens of Kenya elect UhuRuto who in turn promise to fully cooperate with the ICC process and then apply to the same court for flexible schedules to attend court due to their new roles.
Will we still be subject to sanctions?
If yes,
Who exactly will be issuing those sanctions?
For what reasons will they be issuing the sanctions?
In such a situation, there would be no sanctions. But then you have to quit Utopia pronto, for that is not practical! Once you appear before a Court you are subject to the schedule of the Court and not your Business/Political/family, etc conveniences. The Court can even find that you dont deserve bail and have you put under confinement. Thanks B.Timer. FYI, mine was not utopia but conjecture. For the sake of the points you raise... Supposing the court doesn't even give them a favourable schedule, but they win fairly and cooperate fully. Will we still see sanctions? I reckon the issue of how they run the government from the Hague now becomes valid. Does the Kenyan Constitution/any other Kenyan Law even contemplate such a situation? What does the law of impeachment provide? IMO, such a situation will be handled politically. The party with the majority in both Houses will decide whether the two will govern us from the Hague or not. What you contemplate is simply unconscionable. Think of the ignominy of Kenya's CiC being ordered around and possibly handcuffed in foreign land in full glare of the World via video links etc. Bear in mind too, that they may not even be around to be sworn in. It's just murky! Kenya should not be sucked into suck convoluted shenanigans. Kenya reserves the right to rescind it's inclusion into the ICC member community, many countries have done so. So it will never come to our President reporting to Hague, Never! The USA and Israel amongst others have done so before us and they do not face this sanctions some people dream of. Ras Kienyeji Man
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/31/2008 Posts: 1,076
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Much Know wrote:
Kenya reserves the right to rescind it's inclusion into the ICC member community, many countries have done so. So it will never come to our President reporting to Hague, Never! The USA and Israel amongst others have done so before us and they do not face this sanctions some people dream of.
I get a feeling that your views are informed of intuition and as such, I am unable to engage with you!Dunia ni msongamano..
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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B.Timer wrote:Kenya reserves the right to rescind it's inclusion into the ICC member community, many countries have done so. So it will never come to our President reporting to Hague, Never! The USA and Israel amongst others have done so before us and they do not face this sanctions some people dream of. I get a feeling that your views are informed of intuition and as such, I am unable to engage with you![/quote]end quote Yeah this has been discussed over and over, it's just something hard to start engaging in all over again!!! ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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