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Political stability and way forward for wealth maximisation
Swavvy
#1 Posted : Wednesday, December 05, 2012 4:48:25 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/30/2008
Posts: 8
Now that the political landscape is taking shape and the political stability is the foundation of our wealth; which way wazuas? Am looking for objective reviews/analysis of the coalitions purely for wealth maximisation. Over to you....d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!
tycho
#2 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:31:58 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Wealth maximization is a function of how the county economies will be modelled and run.

Can someone please explain how these counties are going to be economically viable?
Mukiri
#3 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 10:54:28 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/11/2012
Posts: 5,222
I'm no expert in this field but I know a few things.
1. There has been alot of unchecked financial crime in Kenya
2. This financial crime goes unabated because of impunity and corruption
3. We have just come into a windfall Oil, Coal etc

If we elect criminals, it will be the same old story maybe even worse. Common sense would dictate then, do away with the old. In light of these, I'm voting a Peter Kenneth/Raphael Tuju alliance. If they win Kenya might go places, If they lose I'll have made my statement!

Proverbs 19:21
ChessMaster
#4 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 11:04:26 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/23/2009
Posts: 1,626
Mukiri wrote:
I'm no expert in this field but I know a few things.
1. There has been alot of unchecked financial crime in Kenya
2. This financial crime goes unabated because of impunity and corruption
3. We have just come into a windfall Oil, Coal etc

If we elect criminals, it will be the same old story maybe even worse. Common sense would dictate then, do away with the old. In light of these, I'm voting a Peter Kenneth/Raphael Tuju alliance. If they win Kenya might go places, If they lose I'll have made my statement!


I doubt it will be worse.Kenyans have experienced too much change and freedom to allow some few politicians to try and take things back to pre 2002 era.We're not perfect but at least now we hope,expect and sometimes demand results.
Uncertainty is certain.Let go
Mukiri
#5 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 11:31:38 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/11/2012
Posts: 5,222
ChessMaster wrote:
Mukiri wrote:
I'm no expert in this field but I know a few things.
1. There has been alot of unchecked financial crime in Kenya
2. This financial crime goes unabated because of impunity and corruption
3. We have just come into a windfall Oil, Coal etc

If we elect criminals, it will be the same old story maybe even worse. Common sense would dictate then, do away with the old. In light of these, I'm voting a Peter Kenneth/Raphael Tuju alliance. If they win Kenya might go places, If they lose I'll have made my statement!


I doubt it will be worse.Kenyans have experienced too much change and freedom to allow some few politicians to try and take things back to pre 2002 era.We're not perfect but at least now we hope,expect and sometimes demand results.


There we disagree.. It can get worse! War worse. Look at countries with oil Nigeria, Libya, Sudan etc. Oil is big money, people kill for it. And maybe it has started disguised as cattle rustling, dons out to clear land of their inhabitants. OAR has a history '92 coup, '08 PEV, Uhuruto its already out and in the hague. Any of these criminals and Kenia is doomed.

Proverbs 19:21
ChessMaster
#6 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 11:51:58 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/23/2009
Posts: 1,626
Mukiri wrote:
ChessMaster wrote:
Mukiri wrote:
I'm no expert in this field but I know a few things.
1. There has been alot of unchecked financial crime in Kenya
2. This financial crime goes unabated because of impunity and corruption
3. We have just come into a windfall Oil, Coal etc

If we elect criminals, it will be the same old story maybe even worse. Common sense would dictate then, do away with the old. In light of these, I'm voting a Peter Kenneth/Raphael Tuju alliance. If they win Kenya might go places, If they lose I'll have made my statement!


I doubt it will be worse.Kenyans have experienced too much change and freedom to allow some few politicians to try and take things back to pre 2002 era.We're not perfect but at least now we hope,expect and sometimes demand results.


There we disagree.. It can get worse! War worse. Look at countries with oil Nigeria, Libya, Sudan etc. Oil is big money, people kill for it. And maybe it has started disguised as cattle rustling, dons out to clear land of their inhabitants. OAR has a history '92 coup, '08 PEV, Uhuruto its already out and in the hague. Any of these criminals and Kenia is doomed.

I mean no disrespect to other E.Africans but here I go. I think Kenya is a pillar of stability in this region.For that reason I don't think the other nations would allow its interest in Kenya and the E.A region suffer because of a few individuals or oil. How would they get oil and other commodities in and out of the region with Kenya in turmoil?
Uncertainty is certain.Let go
Mukiri
#7 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:16:40 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/11/2012
Posts: 5,222
Now I'm toungue-tied, are you saying M7, Kagz and Kabla will bring in their mboys to dictate the way Kenia should run its affairs? There you are pushing it.

Proverbs 19:21
ChessMaster
#8 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:21:16 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/23/2009
Posts: 1,626
Not dictate.They will use "persuasion"Laughing out loudly
In this globalized world we live in,I believe economic interests influence political will.
Uncertainty is certain.Let go
elder1981
#9 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 3:05:29 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 10/23/2012
Posts: 28
Peter Kenneth/Raphael Tuju for wealth maximization.
The Main thing is making the Main thing the Main thing.
akowally
#10 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 3:20:31 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/20/2008
Posts: 1,126
Location: Nairobi
With people being cautious on stocks...you can take some risks and buy when it nears election time then pray that the next prezzo will be drive the economy and stock market upwards.
JOIN MY FREE MINI-COURSE FOR WRITERS. CLICK HERE
tycho
#11 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 5:25:31 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
What kind of life is devolution meant to achieve for all citizens?

I believe we want all citizens to be wealthy and to flourish. Because as far as devolution increases government and taxes, there's an urgent need to increase incomes and their speed of flow. Otherwise, there'll be disequilibrium, and political stability and wealth will be elusive to many.
Wakanyugi
#12 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:33:39 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
tycho wrote:
What kind of life is devolution meant to achieve for all citizens?


Tycho,

We need to be careful not to put too much hope in devolution. Devolution was crafted as a solution to a Political, not Economic problem (namely to cut certain tribes down to size).

If you want a rough image of what devolution will likely bring about in the short and medium term, you only have to look at the past local government system, where almost all councils collapsed under the weight of corruption, lack of management talent, insularity etc.

It will take more than the next election before Counties can become the centers of economic growth that you imply. Maybe a generation. Remember who ever wins the Presidential contest will inherit a largely emasculated position, one where a governor will have more power in some respects than the President. Knowing our politicians, the instinct of the winner, any winner, will be to try and claw back some of the lost power through extra-constitutional and other means.

You have seen Kibs behavior, dragged as he was, kicking and screaming to the new dispensation.

If youth think RAO, Uhuruto, Ken/Tuju, Kiyapi/Kinyua, MADVD/?, Mama/? et al will be any different, just wait.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
tycho
#13 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 11:12:03 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
@Wakanyugi, though the urge for devolution has been mostly Kenyan, and for political purposes, we must not forget that the economic aspect is logically implied. And not to look at it as we devolve may be dangerous for the investor and the country as a whole.

Moreover, the forces for devolution are global and historical, and policy makers need to be aware of this.

But these new policies that are needed require intellectual input, and Wazuans are better placed, and advantaged to contribute.
Wakanyugi
#14 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:38:58 PM
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Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
tycho wrote:
@Wakanyugi, though the urge for devolution has been mostly Kenyan, and for political purposes, we must not forget that the economic aspect is logically implied.


Agreed.

Devolution in itself, or rather the path that leads to the ultimate recognition of an individual rather than a social unit as the true locus of autonomy, is a good thing.

I referred, however, to the Kenyan case where, since before independence, devolution has been sold for all the wrong reasons. As an illusory panacea to our 'fear of the other.' Real devolution should aim to raise up the fallen not to bring down the seemingly risen.

Nevertheless, like you, I hope that our brave attempt at social change will yield economic benefits. I just think it will take time.

A system that starts by potentially doubling the cost of political representation and government is not a very good start on the road to economic growth.

Won't you agree?
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
tycho
#15 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 8:00:50 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Wakanyugi wrote:

A system that starts by potentially doubling the cost of political representation and government is not a very good start on the road to economic growth.

Won't you agree?


I agree. Especially when there are no clear policies on raising incomes appropriately.

Government must thus help in ensuring capital and information are easy to find and more affordable. Then there should an enabling culture so that as many people as possible employ themselves.

Government has to redefine itself.


mkonomtupu
#16 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 10:53:55 AM
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Joined: 2/10/2010
Posts: 1,001
Location: River Road
Swavvy wrote:
Now that the political landscape is taking shape and the political stability is the foundation of our wealth; which way wazuas? Am looking for objective reviews/analysis of the coalitions purely for wealth maximisation. Over to you....d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!


From an investors point of view, jubilee resembles the right wing/conservative/republican ideology known to protect capitalists and maintain status quo

Cord resembles the left wing/labour movement which protects the workers and social marginalized through social programs and wealth redistribution.

In my case i'm a capitalist so I work for my own selfish interest so I would prefer an outright jubilee win but I am also mindful that such a win would scare hot money in the short run. I'm more worried about an outright cord win because that would scare the local capital which will feel under siege and threatened by the land reforms and wealth distribution and therefore weak KRA collections and more innovative taxes possibly including capital gains tax. In the worst case a compromise- jubilee wins in parliament, cord wins in the executive that way both interests are protected.

On the KRA collections please see the future below
"The Kenya Revenue Authority (KRA) collected Sh342 billion in taxes at the end of December, less than half of the targeted total of Sh817.5 billion for the current financial year.

The amount collected in the first six months of the year is equivalent to 41.8 per cent of the full-year target, which points to possible expenditure cuts and more borrowing by the Treasury to plug the gap."
http://www.businessdaily...8/-/hmh1qyz/-/index.html
Wakanyugi
#17 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 1:01:44 PM
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Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
Mkonomtupu akanena:

"In my case i'm a capitalist so I work for my own selfish interest so I would prefer an outright jubilee win but I am also mindful that such a win would scare hot money in the short run.

The amount collected [by KRA] in the first six months of the year is equivalent to 41.8 per cent of the full-year target, which points to possible expenditure cuts and more borrowing by the Treasury to plug the gap."


I think your two statements above are contradictory. If Government is forced to go deeper into deficit financing, increasingly likely now that tax receipts are dwindling, this will mean increased reliance on donor funds too.

An Uhuruto win, with the sanctions likely to follow, will shut down that avenue faster than you can shout Jubilee. What will happen to your Capitalist dreams then?

"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
mkonomtupu
#18 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 1:42:50 PM
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Joined: 2/10/2010
Posts: 1,001
Location: River Road
Wakanyugi, my first statement represents my wishful thinking. On the government financing I think it is artificial and more based on preservation of capital in uncertain times especially when you are not sure if you will be in control of political power.

On the sanctions that's more of a myth. sanctions were imposed on sudan because it is a state sponsor of terrorism not because of ICC, in Zimbabwe the sanctions are targeted at individuals or entities that undermined the democratic process but there is no trade embargo against zimbabwe. you can find out more below
http://harare.usembassy.gov/policy_explain.html
tycho
#19 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 2:25:10 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
I can't say the Chinese are Communists, though they are ruled by a Communist party.

These categories of 'republican' etc. are out of time and clinging on them will leave us mkono mtupu.

While the coalitions embrace tribalism to get power, the idea that all is well or maladies can be easily treated is a lie. Or even that the tribe has a say in economic affairs is a very irresponsible idea.

And we must not forget that these political moves are complications in a global trend expressing itself differently in Tunisia or Egypt, or even Syria.
Wakanyugi
#20 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 4:29:16 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
mkonomtupu wrote:

On the sanctions that's more of a myth. sanctions were imposed on sudan because it is a state sponsor of terrorism not because of ICC, in Zimbabwe the sanctions are targeted at individuals or entities that undermined the democratic process but there is no trade embargo against zimbabwe.



It seems you believe in the myth of 'targeted sanctions.' Do you believe in smart bombs too?

I have traveled extensively in both Zimbabwe and Sudan - the countries that you believe have not suffered because sanctions were 'targeted at individuals or entities.'

Try telling that to the Mama Mboga on the road to Mutare who could not sell me her tomatoes because there were no dollar bills anywhere to make change, after Zimbabwe dollarized. Or the amjad driver in Khartoum who now suddenly can't work because the price of petrol doubled overnight. Both events were directly or indirectly caused by sanctions that were apparently meant to hurt only the leaders.

As Kenyans are about to learn, there is no such thing as targeted sanctions. The people targeted can easily shrug them off while the poor, who are collateral, can't.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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