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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/14/2006 Posts: 1,311
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McReggae wrote:@Liv: Acha pang'ang'a: the suspects will have to be at the hague through out the trial!!!!! @Mc,
Read the statutes....
It the right of the accused to be present in the trial. That means the trial cannot take place if they are not present (That is why President Omar Bashir trial cannot take place until he personally appears in the trial to be able to question the witnesses.... as a right for him....if the courts final decision and ruling will be taken as valid.
However the accused can make applications to the court to be forfeit this right and be represented in the court.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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Liv wrote:McReggae wrote:@Liv: Acha pang'ang'a: the suspects will have to be at the hague through out the trial!!!!! @Mc,
Read the statutes....
It the right of the accused to be present in the trial. That means the trial cannot take place if they are not present (That is why President Omar Bashir trial cannot take place until he personally appears in the trial to be able to question the witnesses.... as a right for him....if the courts final decision and ruling will be taken as valid.
However the accused can make applications to the court to be forfeit this right and be represented in the court. Selective reading makes you conclude that all requests by the suspects will be granted at the courts......can make a request after appearing a request which can then (most probably) be rejected!!!!! ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/26/2012 Posts: 1,182
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Liv wrote:McReggae wrote:Wanachubilee....mko wapi, hold up in a meeting to discuss this??? haha... you seem to be highly elated by this development.
Yet you have always said you want UK to met RAO at the debe.
according to ICC procedures it is the right of the accused to be present in his / her trial.... read the following quotation from ICC article 67
Article 67
Rights of the accused
In the determination of any charge, the accused shall be entitled to a public hearing, having regard to the provisions of this Statute, to a fair hearing conducted impartially, and to the following minimum guarantees, in full equality:
To be informed promptly and in detail of the nature, cause and content of the charge, in a language which the accused fully understands and speaks;
To have adequate time and facilities for the preparation of the defence and to communicate freely with counsel of the accused's choosing in confidence;
To be tried without undue delay;
Subject to article 63, paragraph 2, to be present at the trial, to conduct the defence in person or through legal assistance of the accused's choosing, to be informed, if the accused does not have legal assistance, of this right and to have legal assistance assigned by the Court in any case where the interests of justice so require, and without payment if the accused lacks sufficient means to pay for it;
To examine, or have examined, the witnesses against him or her and to obtain the attendance and examination of witnesses on his or her behalf under the same conditions as witnesses against him or her. The accused shall also be entitled to raise defences and to present other evidence admissible under this Statute;
The ICC is young court and it is still developing its processes.... UK and WR can still apply to be represented at the trial by their lawyers...if they are elected as president and Deputy president.... this means they will forfeit their right to be present at the trial. @ Liv, You've lost me. The statute reads of a right to a public hearing. Appearing during those proceedings is an OBLIGATION. That's why the moment one fails to attend, a warrant of arrest is issued. If it was a right, Bashir would have his case going on with his attorneys representing him,enabling him to move freely. Don't you think? The right in you quote above is for a public hearing. Or did i read my own stuff?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/14/2006 Posts: 1,311
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mkeiyd wrote:
@ Liv, You've lost me. The statute reads of a right to a public hearing.
Appearing during those proceedings is an OBLIGATION. That's why the moment one fails to attend, a warrant of arrest is issued.
If it was a right, Bashir would have his case going on with his attorneys representing him,enabling him to move freely.
Don't you think?
The right in you quote above is for a public hearing.
Or did i read my own stuff?
@Mkeiyd, Why do you allow yourself to be lost.
Read the Rome statutes for yourself and make your own conclusions. Is that too hard?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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@mkeiyd: Good one, dude just quoting all over, desperation written all over!!!! ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/14/2006 Posts: 1,311
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McReggae wrote:Liv wrote:McReggae wrote:@Liv: Acha pang'ang'a: the suspects will have to be at the hague through out the trial!!!!! @Mc,
Read the statutes....
It the right of the accused to be present in the trial. That means the trial cannot take place if they are not present (That is why President Omar Bashir trial cannot take place until he personally appears in the trial to be able to question the witnesses.... as a right for him....if the courts final decision and ruling will be taken as valid.
However the accused can make applications to the court to be forfeit this right and be represented in the court. Selective reading makes you conclude that all requests by the suspects will be granted at the courts......can make a request after appearing a request which can then (most probably) be rejected!!!!! @Mc,
The statute says that the trials will be held at the Hague... But this can also be changed to another place by the decision of the court.
That is why UK and WR want to appear in the Hague as President and Deputy President elect....and make their applications. This is an international court and it has consider all the prayers given the decision by the people of Kenya (voters).
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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Liv wrote:McReggae wrote:Liv wrote:McReggae wrote:@Liv: Acha pang'ang'a: the suspects will have to be at the hague through out the trial!!!!! @Mc,
Read the statutes....
It the right of the accused to be present in the trial. That means the trial cannot take place if they are not present (That is why President Omar Bashir trial cannot take place until he personally appears in the trial to be able to question the witnesses.... as a right for him....if the courts final decision and ruling will be taken as valid.
However the accused can make applications to the court to be forfeit this right and be represented in the court. Selective reading makes you conclude that all requests by the suspects will be granted at the courts......can make a request after appearing a request which can then (most probably) be rejected!!!!! @Mc,
The statute says that the trials will be held at the Hague... But this can also be changed to another place by the decision of the court.
That is why UK and WR want to appear in the Hague as President and Deputy President elect....and make their applications. This is an international court and it has consider all the prayers given the decision by the people of Kenya (voters). I agree, a lot of prayers will be literally needed here!!!! ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/25/2011 Posts: 2,103 Location: Nrb
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No one said it will be easy,no one. But Uhuru will be president. The power of the ballot. I am happy
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/14/2006 Posts: 1,311
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McReggae wrote:@mkeiyd: Good one, dude just quoting all over, desperation written all over!!!! @Mc,
I am not the one going to Hague... why I should I be desperate?
You have always wanted UK to meet RAO at the Debe... why do you sound so elated at the possibility of UK not being able to be on the ballot because of the ICC?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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Liv wrote:McReggae wrote:@mkeiyd: Good one, dude just quoting all over, desperation written all over!!!! @Mc,
I am not the one going to Hague... why I should I be desperate?
You have always wanted UK to meet RAO at the Debe... why do you sound so elated at the possibility of UK not being able to be on the ballot because of the ICC? You don't get it do you: UK will be on the ballot yes, but the news coming in will mean apart from his fanatics, no other sober kenya will touch the suspects hence will lose the elections!!! ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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