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two vernacular stations in trouble over hate speech
Elder
#21 Posted : Thursday, January 10, 2013 9:44:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/7/2010
Posts: 2,148
Location: elderville
githundi wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
Prof Makau Mutua censored! And some here think attacking UMK is cool/progressive and that it matters less what they say after that. Kenyanlist, mashada, and the fb pages Gor is a lifestyle, Stop Uhuru and Stop Raila and Kalonzo.

i hail Ndemo, if we had more kenyans like him.....
On another note, i think the admin did not want to step on @guru 2670 toes, if it was any other newfarer, we could be talking of something else. There is no difference between Alustadhs comments and @ guru 267, talk of double standards.


Big difference there. What @guru 2670 has done with her signature is not hate speech. She has merely expressed her opinion. Of course there is the further nuance in its claim that the people have to vote with one particular domestic animal. What @alustadhs did was reckless and dangerous, more so given our PEV history.

It is indeed great to see the admin not be as petty as our political inclinations seem to make us here of late and not join the senstives who see hate speech monsters behind every internet bit.

Interestingly expressing one's opinion is a Constitutional right, however we may disagree with it.
He who can express in words the ardour of his love, has but little love to express. - Petrach, Son. (That men by various ways arrive at the same end. - Montaigne, The Essays of.)
digitek1
#22 Posted : Thursday, January 10, 2013 9:44:20 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/3/2010
Posts: 1,797
Location: Kenya
@alma so whats CCK to do? sit back and watch kenya burn? Mashada owners are well known. This time round Ndemo has his work cut out
I may be wrong..but then I could be right
alma
#23 Posted : Thursday, January 10, 2013 9:59:27 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
digitek1 wrote:
@alma so whats CCK to do? sit back and watch kenya burn? Mashada owners are well known. This time round Ndemo has his work cut out


We are paying these guys in the expectations that they know and understand the law. They should not and cannot sit down.

But so far all they are doing is making statements that have no basis in law or logic.

For example, by saying that they will involve interpol to arrest people like Makau because he expressed an opinion they did not like, makes me wonder if they understand the internet or international law at all.

There will never be a day that the US gov't will allow a US citizen to be taken to a Kenyan court.

On the issue of forum owners like mashada. When did the kenyan gov't second forum owners to become policemen. It's like saying that you will arrest a matatu owner because the people who boarded his matatu robbed them.

It's a forum where people express their opinions. So unless they are asking forum owners to break laws in other countries, they should stop making these threats. Have they for one minute gone to huge sites such as Huffington post, politico and seen the comments on those sites?

Forum owners can and should show direction on they type of language they want on their online properties. But they should not be police reservists for the CCK.

While trying to stop hate speech is important, making wild allegations of super powers they don't have is making the CCK look irrelevant.

All that know kenyan list knows that this will only make that site more militant and there is absolutely nothing that the CCK did yesterday to mitigate that other than give kenyan list and mashada free advertising.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
McReggae
#24 Posted : Thursday, January 10, 2013 10:55:30 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
All I know is that with Ndemo's press conference jana, the average yapping kenyan on social media will cool down, nobody wants these guys on their backs!!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
alma
#25 Posted : Thursday, January 10, 2013 11:36:33 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
McReggae I disagree.

The average yapping kenyan never knew that they should hide their tracks. He'll just go get another user name on twitter and facebook and now go crazy. We have seen it here on wazua.

Its called creating a fake profile. Heck I can even pretend I'm in Russia if I want to right now on wazua.

It's not as easy to control free speech online as they are pretending it is.

The average Kenyan who calls the politicians average is not the problem. And that's who they seem to be targeting by going for Makau.

The problem is the serial and paid internet harlot who will do anything to get paid. For that guy, I think CCK is joking.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
nakujua
#26 Posted : Thursday, January 10, 2013 12:51:12 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 3,583
Location: Kenya
alma wrote:
McReggae I disagree.

The average yapping kenyan never knew that they should hide their tracks. He'll just go get another user name on twitter and facebook and now go crazy. We have seen it here on wazua.

Its called creating a fake profile. Heck I can even pretend I'm in Russia if I want to right now on wazua.

It's not as easy to control free speech online as they are pretending it is.

The average Kenyan who calls the politicians average is not the problem. And that's who they seem to be targeting by going for Makau.

The problem is the serial and paid internet harlot who will do anything to get paid. For that guy, I think CCK is joking.


I agree, they should focus more on the local media outlets, targeting facebook pages and twitter feeds and the other foreign hosted sites is impossible.

plus, I think hate speech is still not clearly defined and even assuming that the sites could monitor the same it would be very murky.
githundi
#27 Posted : Thursday, January 10, 2013 3:58:26 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/19/2010
Posts: 1,308
Location: nairobi metropolitan
Elder wrote:
githundi wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
Prof Makau Mutua censored! And some here think attacking UMK is cool/progressive and that it matters less what they say after that. Kenyanlist, mashada, and the fb pages Gor is a lifestyle, Stop Uhuru and Stop Raila and Kalonzo.

i hail Ndemo, if we had more kenyans like him.....
On another note, i think the admin did not want to step on @guru 2670 toes, if it was any other newfarer, we could be talking of something else. There is no difference between Alustadhs comments and @ guru 267, talk of double standards.


Big difference there. What @guru 2670 has done with her signature is not hate speech. She has merely expressed her opinion. Of course there is the further nuance in its claim that the people have to vote with one particular domestic animal. What @alustadhs did was reckless and dangerous, more so given our PEV history.

It is indeed great to see the admin not be as petty as our political inclinations seem to make us here of late and not join the senstives who see hate speech monsters behind every internet bit.

Interestingly expressing one's opinion is a Constitutional right, however we may disagree with it.

@ elder, corruption of language does not necessarily make @ guru 267 innocent, infact implying that those who vote for uhuruto will be voting with their donkeys is bad enough. It equates the thought of this voter to that of a donkey. Mind you that is your interpretation @ guru 267 has not clarified this. People give meaning to what is said or written. The intent would be second. I hold the view she should change her signature and apologise unreservedly.
Democracy does not belong to the dead
Much Know
#28 Posted : Thursday, January 10, 2013 5:22:03 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 3,571
nakujua wrote:
alma wrote:
McReggae I disagree.

The average yapping kenyan never knew that they should hide their tracks. He'll just go get another user name on twitter and facebook and now go crazy. We have seen it here on wazua.

Its called creating a fake profile. Heck I can even pretend I'm in Russia if I want to right now on wazua.

It's not as easy to control free speech online as they are pretending it is.

The average Kenyan who calls the politicians average is not the problem. And that's who they seem to be targeting by going for Makau.

The problem is the serial and paid internet harlot who will do anything to get paid. For that guy, I think CCK is joking.


I agree, they should focus more on the local media outlets, targeting facebook pages and twitter feeds and the other foreign hosted sites is impossible.

plus, I think hate speech is still not clearly defined and even assuming that the sites could monitor the same it would be very murky.

I was pretty surprised that they want to pretend to have power over the internet. Let them focus on the more traditional media and sms.
Ras Kienyeji Man
McReggae
#29 Posted : Thursday, January 10, 2013 5:34:30 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
....so they arrested Dr. Jarunda (Gor mahia.....) and then released him later???
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
Impunity
#30 Posted : Thursday, January 10, 2013 6:05:34 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,330
Location: Masada
McReggae wrote:
....so they arrested Dr. Jarunda (Gor mahia.....) and then released him later???


Why was he released?
Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.

Lolest!
#31 Posted : Thursday, January 10, 2013 7:05:26 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
@alma, I am surprised by your about-turn. Some months back, you were warning us about what we post here and on fb and twitter as our identities could easily be established. Now you saying the opposite!
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
alma
#32 Posted : Thursday, January 10, 2013 7:22:04 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
@Loles I've not done an about turn. I'm still on point. Many of us here know each other. And wazua has placed an "illegal" note in their privacy policy that they will corporate with "the law". So my warning was to my brethren who once in a while attempt to go off the cliff.

Wazua basically has suggested that they will sell you out. So watch what you say here.

Unfortunately, the blanket statements made yesterday were totally off point in terms of creating a hate speech free zone online.

That is what I was pointing out. They can't do it. Don't have the wherewithal to do it and are blowing hot air.

Now that the owners of facebook know that if they use their real identities they will be taken to court, the next breed of facebook hatemongers will be extremely cautious. Thus denying our security forces necessary intel.

You do know that though the US can bring down al kaeda hate mongers online forums, they don't. In fact, they join those forums and gather more intel. Google has been known to join scammers and black hat web master sites just to gather intel. Instead of shutting down the sites and locking up the owners, they join, engage and learn something they would never have known.

It's better than just taking 18 yr olds to court. While the real hate mongers are probably running for one office or another in 2013.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
mawinder
#33 Posted : Thursday, January 10, 2013 7:33:57 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/30/2008
Posts: 6,029
alma wrote:
@Loles I've not done an about turn. I'm still on point. Many of us here know each other. And wazua has placed an "illegal" note in their privacy policy that they will corporate with "the law". So my warning was to my brethren who once in a while attempt to go off the cliff.

Wazua basically has suggested that they will sell you out. So watch what you say here.

Unfortunately, the blanket statements made yesterday were totally off point in terms of creating a hate speech free zone online.

That is what I was pointing out. They can't do it. Don't have the wherewithal to do it and are blowing hot air.

Now that the owners of facebook know that if they use their real identities they will be taken to court, the next breed of facebook hatemongers will be extremely cautious. Thus denying our security forces necessary intel.

You do know that though the US can bring down al kaeda hate mongers online forums, they don't. In fact, they join those forums and gather more intel. Google has been known to join scammers and black hat web master sites just to gather intel. Instead of shutting down the sites and locking up the owners, they join, engage and learn something they would never have known.

It's better than just taking 18 yr olds to court. While the real hate mongers are probably running for one office or another in 2013.

There was to be a precedent i.e Republic vs Nicholas Luseno alias Niclause here on wazua.Who remembers those days of KDN and the war that followed with the guy of several user names.
aemathenge
#34 Posted : Thursday, January 10, 2013 7:38:31 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/18/2008
Posts: 3,434
Location: Kerugoya
Damnit @Alma, I hate it when you are this good.
digitek1
#35 Posted : Thursday, January 10, 2013 7:39:34 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/3/2010
Posts: 1,797
Location: Kenya
is Mutua now a US citizen?
I may be wrong..but then I could be right
aemathenge
#36 Posted : Thursday, January 10, 2013 8:20:16 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/18/2008
Posts: 3,434
Location: Kerugoya
Every time I see a post about @Guru267's "signature", I prepare myself to be convinced that it is in bad taste and should be withdrawn and I therefore prepare myself to ask Messrs Administrator to have it withdrawn.

However, all I am getting are good reasons, in my opinion, for her and Messrs Administrator to keep it.

githundi wrote:
People give meaning to what is said or written. The intent would be second.


@Githundi in the post quoted above has gone and given me another good reason. Average People, most people, in his opinion, place her intent, her reasoning, her argument a distant second if at all.

She is not a Kenian, therefore it is not tribal.

She is not Kenian, therefore she cannot vote.

She has not advocated for any other candidate therefore she is not eliminating the competition.

Ladies and Gentlemen, you want that signature gone, engage her on intent. My advice.

Or shut up and wait for the erection results then be average and rub it in her nose when Johnstone Muigai Kamau Junior becomes PORK.
jaggernaut
#37 Posted : Thursday, January 10, 2013 8:39:06 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/9/2008
Posts: 5,389
Mashada shut down! Who's next?
Lolest!
#38 Posted : Thursday, January 10, 2013 8:58:55 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Interesting discourse. Now if opinion is OK regardless of content should the state give a blind eye to someone who says statements like The only good Ndebele is a dead one or All Yoruba are thick. It would still be opinion, right? Me thinks the state must step in to stop the public from broadcasting/publishing their stupid/divisive/hateful opinions. Think anything but shut up if what you have to say is hate!
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
dunkang
#39 Posted : Thursday, January 10, 2013 9:13:29 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/2/2011
Posts: 4,818
Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
i think the most prudent thing that CCK should do is to block any IP that promotes and/or tolerates hate-mongers, if what @Alma is telling us is true.
Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi

aemathenge
#40 Posted : Thursday, January 10, 2013 9:21:53 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/18/2008
Posts: 3,434
Location: Kerugoya
Lolest! wrote:
Me thinks the state must step in to stop the public from broadcasting/publishing their stupid/divisive/hateful opinions.


Precisely.

The State can wave the game on, flash a yellow card or a red card.

The Kikuyu thread was red carded.

Several handles have been "usered" (Yellow carded.)

The "signature" was waved on.
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