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This is purely Assault ,is it worth persuing in court
tycho
#21 Posted : Monday, January 07, 2013 11:13:20 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
tycho wrote:
tycho wrote:
Elder wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
tycho wrote:
One can even press for the assault charges and win.

you mean damages? Would a court hear a tort case while a criminal case on which it depends is yet to be concluded?

Yes.


Like in this situation, won't all statements point towards a crime that would have needed some 'violence' inorder to enforce the law?


I think I now know why the answer is 'yes'. 'Innocent until proven guilty, beyond reasonable doubt'.

Right?


Wrong!

These are laws. So it depends on the lawyer who stands before the judge.

Perfect!
mawinder
#22 Posted : Monday, January 07, 2013 11:33:34 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 4/30/2008
Posts: 6,029
tycho wrote:
tycho wrote:
Elder wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
tycho wrote:
One can even press for the assault charges and win.

you mean damages? Would a court hear a tort case while a criminal case on which it depends is yet to be concluded?

Yes.


Like in this situation, won't all statements point towards a crime that would have needed some 'violence' inorder to enforce the law?


I think I now know why the answer is 'yes'. 'Innocent until proven guilty, beyond reasonable doubt'.

Right?

There is no tortious liability here.This is purely criminal matter. @jired,updates on how the matter goes.
richdad
#23 Posted : Monday, January 07, 2013 11:42:56 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/12/2010
Posts: 474
Location: Nairobi
Are you sure the notes were not fake? The stories involving "friends" are always very scary. Its not about winning or losing the case, its about what you get either way.

If you are rich get a lawyer and go on with the case. If you have other more important things to do settle it out of court then find ways of raining blows to the idiot (If you must).

This is Kenya and your small case will take years in court. Lawyers will take all the cash and you will get more dents from it than you already have.
Keep it simple
accelriskconsult
#24 Posted : Monday, January 07, 2013 1:13:05 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 4/2/2011
Posts: 629
Location: Nai
The case hinges on proof that;

1. The agent assaulted the friend (why would he resort to assault instead of reporting to police, rejecting the proferred money). If there is a medical report, you have a good case.
2. Researching the agents background to establish whether there is a pattern of deceit and violence.
3. Finding other victims of the alleged con. The landlords would normally have received complaints if there is a pattern.
4. Establishing that the fake money in the agent's possession was more than the 10k.
Elder
#25 Posted : Monday, January 07, 2013 1:59:39 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/7/2010
Posts: 2,148
Location: elderville
tycho wrote:
tycho wrote:
tycho wrote:
Elder wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
tycho wrote:
One can even press for the assault charges and win.

you mean damages? Would a court hear a tort case while a criminal case on which it depends is yet to be concluded?

Yes.


Like in this situation, won't all statements point towards a crime that would have needed some 'violence' inorder to enforce the law?


I think I now know why the answer is 'yes'. 'Innocent until proven guilty, beyond reasonable doubt'.

Right?


Wrong!

These are laws. So it depends on the lawyer who stands before the judge.

Perfect!

@tychos, I was not addressing the merits of the case here.

The question I answered is whether a court can hear a tort case while the criminal one is going on. The answer to that is yes. The fact that the state is prosecuting your assailant for assault does not mean that you can't institute a civil case for battery (in tort it is not assault but battery). I can't remember well but the law was changed sometime back (or something like that) to provide that a criminal action against someone is not a bar to civil action against the same person and or vice versa.

And FYI in a criminal case the threshold is 'beyond reasonable doubt' while for a civil case it is 'on a balance of probabilities'.
He who can express in words the ardour of his love, has but little love to express. - Petrach, Son. (That men by various ways arrive at the same end. - Montaigne, The Essays of.)
Elder
#26 Posted : Monday, January 07, 2013 2:02:32 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/7/2010
Posts: 2,148
Location: elderville
mawinder wrote:
tycho wrote:
tycho wrote:
Elder wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
tycho wrote:
One can even press for the assault charges and win.

you mean damages? Would a court hear a tort case while a criminal case on which it depends is yet to be concluded?

Yes.


Like in this situation, won't all statements point towards a crime that would have needed some 'violence' inorder to enforce the law?


I think I now know why the answer is 'yes'. 'Innocent until proven guilty, beyond reasonable doubt'.

Right?

There is no tortious liability here.This is purely criminal matter. @jired,updates on how the matter goes.

Shame on you Shame on you You may want to be sure of what you are talking about before being so certain about it; you would otherwise mislead people like in this instance.
He who can express in words the ardour of his love, has but little love to express. - Petrach, Son. (That men by various ways arrive at the same end. - Montaigne, The Essays of.)
2012
#27 Posted : Monday, January 07, 2013 2:35:32 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
That guy should sue and have the agent arrested for assault. Clearly this is system the agent has created to launder fake money.

BBI will solve it
:)
jjred
#28 Posted : Monday, January 07, 2013 3:09:21 PM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 3/29/2011
Posts: 63
Thanks to all for your contribution.

As I said earlier, the guy was released on bond on that very day and was to appear on court today (Monday the 7nth)We managed to get some money for an advocate to open a file. So they appeared on court in the morning but the case was deferred till tomorrow for luck of enough evident. So the police went to do more investigation
Meanwhile, the guy had gone for treatment and already has a medical report, we are just praying that all goes well.

But he is very confident that the notes given to him were not fake. His friend had an ATM receipt for the notes, he removed them from his pockets, gave them to this guy who folded them and placed them in his wallet yet the fake notes according to him were very straight and note folded.

But as someone had said here, it’s true that there are very many innocent people rotting in jail.
mawinder
#29 Posted : Monday, January 07, 2013 3:19:22 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 4/30/2008
Posts: 6,029
@jired,something is missing from your thread.Did he take a plea and who asked that the case be deferred?
jjred
#30 Posted : Monday, January 07, 2013 4:13:18 PM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 3/29/2011
Posts: 63
Since i was not there,the information i have just gotten on my follow up is that the case was deffered,even though the lawyer was present,he did nothing since even his file had not been opened,he also told me that police did not have enough evident
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