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Kibakis legacy vis a vis Uhuruto,ICC&Kenya's future
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jamplu
#21 Posted : Monday, December 03, 2012 9:21:40 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 3/25/2010
Posts: 939
Location: Nai
Why do we keep on whining about ICC over and over we joined by choice and we can leave at will.
But before we do that lets remember that people died in 2007/08 some died very painfully, deaths you wouldn't wish on a stray dog others were burnt alive in churches don't they deserve some closure some justice?
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nostoppingthis
#22 Posted : Tuesday, December 04, 2012 10:19:44 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 8/24/2009
Posts: 5,909
Location: Nairobi
Morey wrote:
ICC has little legitimacy in my mind until it decides to investigate the Bush and Blair for war crimes.In my opinion,ICC is just one of the Western tools for taming the weak and poor nations leadership to safeguard their(the west) own selfish interests.


So, why did Kenya join it? Has it become this, just because the WSR/UK of this world are involved? Aren't WSR/UK the same people who opted to go there?
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nakujua
#23 Posted : Tuesday, December 04, 2012 10:55:09 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 3,583
Location: Kenya
nostoppingthis wrote:
Morey wrote:
ICC has little legitimacy in my mind until it decides to investigate the Bush and Blair for war crimes.In my opinion,ICC is just one of the Western tools for taming the weak and poor nations leadership to safeguard their(the west) own selfish interests.


So, why did Kenya join it? Has it become this, just because the WSR/UK of this world are involved? Aren't WSR/UK the same people who opted to go there?


its like asking why someone is employed.
I just hope the cj will continue sorting out the local judiciary proper.
What we need are processes for dealing with our own, s...
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B.Timer
#24 Posted : Tuesday, December 04, 2012 10:56:22 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 5/31/2008
Posts: 1,076
I have no illusions that Uhuruto will win the 2013 election, in fact the Courts could put paid to the hell bend bid!

Let’s assume though, that they were to win!

As President and Deputy President, how will they handle the PEV issue?

The common “wisdom” is that they will show ICC the middle finger.

But their position on how Kenya should proceed on the matter of the PEV crimes remains unclear.

There have been some half-hearted murmurs about having a local process in place of the ICC proceedings - not too convincing.

But for starters, do they believe and accept that CRIMES WERE COMMITTED resulting in about 1,300 deaths and many more people maimed, livelihoods shattered, property lost, populations forcibly moved and IDPs created!

Are they going to spearhead and support GENUINE local prosecutions for PEV crimes!!!!

In the unlikely event that they are charged locally with these crimes, what are they going to do about the legal requirement that if one is charged with a criminal offence he/she must relinquish public office?

I don’t get it!

Their candidature is untenable whichever way you look at it!

Utterly unconscionable!


Dunia ni msongamano..
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  | | Edit by user: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 11:02 AM | Reason: Not specified
bebeto
#25 Posted : Tuesday, December 04, 2012 11:13:16 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/5/2008
Posts: 602
B. Timer wrote
Quote:
I have no illusions that Uhuruto will win the 2013 election, in fact the Courts could put paid to the hell bend bid!

Let’s assume though, that they were to win!

As President and Deputy President, how will they handle the PEV issue?

The common “wisdom” is that they will show ICC the middle finger.

But their position on how Kenya should proceed on the matter of the PEV crimes remains unclear.

There has been some half-hearted murmurs about having a local process in place of the ICC proceedings - not too convincing.

But for starters, do they believe and accept that CRIMES WERE COMMITTED resulting in about 1,300 deaths and many more people maimed, livelihoods shattered, property lost, populations forcibly moved and IDPs created!

Are they going to spearhead and support GENUINE local prosecutions for PEV crimes!!!!

In the unlikely event that they are charged locally with these crimes, what are they going to do about the legal requirement that if one is charged with a criminal offence he/she must relinquish public office?

I don’t get it!

Their candidature is untenable whichever way you look at it!

Utterly unconscionable!


DITTO
"The chief danger in life is that you may take too many precautions" - Alfred adler
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marshalliah
#26 Posted : Tuesday, December 04, 2012 11:29:53 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 10/10/2009
Posts: 52
Dont be surprised that Annan may have been sent to mutunga to advise him not 2 block uhuruto.
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Kaka M
#27 Posted : Tuesday, December 04, 2012 12:03:02 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 4/18/2011
Posts: 459
Most leaders actually groom someone(even if it's behind the scenes) to take over from them so that they carry on their unfinished work, and if need be to protect them and their property. You can imagine if our next leader comes and decides that instead of vision 2030 we will have vision 2050 or no vision at all, projects like the Lamu Port etc may just be left to rot.

However I think currently it might be a catch 22 situation, one of the accused is the incumbents right hand man and there were meetings which were allegedly held in the house on the hill to plan attacks.In one of the appearance the incumbent actually wrote a letter to Hague in support of his friend which shows how this issue is close to his heart. No body is sure if the list submitted had more people mentioned who were spared in the short term and who they could be at the time
Under such circumstances one would be left wondering if he should talk or remain silent. All in all, decisiveness and if need be behind the scene action would at least show patriotism. So many people have died for the causes that they believe in and in the words of the Late Prof (RIP) "There comes a time ......"
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B.Timer
#28 Posted : Tuesday, December 04, 2012 3:33:58 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 5/31/2008
Posts: 1,076
digitek1 wrote:
Let the people decide, one man one vote thats democracy for you. MK is best advised to lie low and not appoint any successor like HEDAM tried.
watu wapatane kwa debe! this is the best legacy he can leave



OR

May be the secret to this puzzle lies in Prof Makau Mutua's explanation - Kibaki blackmailed by Uhuru - "play ball or I spill the beans at ICC"!

link:

http://www.nation.co.ke/...8/-/ruqx28z/-/index.html
Dunia ni msongamano..
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jamplu
#29 Posted : Tuesday, December 04, 2012 3:54:43 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 3/25/2010
Posts: 939
Location: Nai
this is how the world media reports about the uhuruto alliance

http://www.aljazeera.com...201212293351420258.html
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nostoppingthis
#30 Posted : Tuesday, December 04, 2012 3:55:46 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 8/24/2009
Posts: 5,909
Location: Nairobi
B.Timer wrote:
[quote=digitek1]Let the people decide, one man one vote thats democracy for you. MK is best advised to lie low and not appoint any successor like HEDAM tried.
watu wapatane kwa debe! this is the best legacy he can leave



OR

May be the secret to this puzzle lies in Prof Makau Mutua's explanation - Kibaki blackmailed by Uhuru - "play ball or I spill the beans at ICC"!

link:

http://www.nation.co.ke/.../-/ruqx28z/-/index.html[/quote]

I think Mutua saw something I didn't...UMK controls the house on the hill even without being there...
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