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Waiting to exhale on this Nairobi City!!!!
Rapudox
#1 Posted : Friday, November 23, 2012 4:10:25 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 12/30/2010
Posts: 65
Location: Europe
How can it be, that a Nairobi-Bred Ex-Eastlander with monthly savings of about 150,000Kshs cannot afford a family home in the Upmarket (Lavi, Kile, Thome, Kitisuru etc) areas of this CITY???
What if somebody doesnt want to live 30-40kms away from the CBD, doesnt want to buy that shady overpriced apartment in leafy areas...?? And who the hell goes for a mortgage @20% interest rate??.This rate means paying up to 4 times the original price after 20yrs or so!
There is no way, absolutely no way that house in Karen or Nyari for 50M, will be worth 100M (1M$) in 15 years....People keep on saying, there will be no bubble burst....ehh??, How is this going to work out, are they for real??..Even if those properties are bought for cash....any right thinking person would expect no value appreciation, at least in the next 10-20yrs. Its totally insaneShame on you . For 50M, one could buy at least 2 solid good homes in good eurpoean cities. Its heartbreaking, to realise that you can afford a home in western cities, but you cant afford that "same home" in your home city....even when you have reached a level, where you monthly earnings are at least 6 times the per capita income of Kenya......very frustrating
dunkang
#2 Posted : Friday, November 23, 2012 4:20:22 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/2/2011
Posts: 4,818
Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
from 50M to 100M in 15 years? Yes, with inflation at 35% annual. Remember Zimbabwe bread jumped from 25$ to Millions of $ in less than 2 years. Laughing out loudly

But on a serious note, the housing prices are sick. This i blame on banks on overvalueing (spelling) trash.
Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi

Rapudox
#3 Posted : Friday, November 23, 2012 4:52:08 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 12/30/2010
Posts: 65
Location: Europe
@dunkag....so, with your Zim example...in order to afford a home, it would be wise to vote for Uhuru-Ruto...he he. That is a sure way of going the Zim way
digitek1
#4 Posted : Friday, November 23, 2012 5:03:08 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/3/2010
Posts: 1,797
Location: Kenya
the problem with young people is that you want instant coffee.
nobody started out in those neighbourhoods unless they inherited. youve got to move up the ladder
you can take the 20 % mortgage but you dont have to wait for 20 yrs to pay. take a cheaper house pay off faster sell it use that as a deposit for a more expensive home and walla you are in karen smile
I may be wrong..but then I could be right
Mukiri
#5 Posted : Friday, November 23, 2012 5:19:49 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/11/2012
Posts: 5,222
digitek1 wrote:
the problem with young people is that you want instant coffee.
nobody started out in those neighbourhoods unless they inherited. youve got to move up the ladder
you can take the 20 % mortgage but you dont have to wait for 20 yrs to pay. take a cheaper house pay off faster sell it use that as a deposit for a more expensive home and walla you are in karen smile


Hear hearApplause

The youth of today are in such a hurry, some even rush to their graves!

Proverbs 19:21
guru267
#6 Posted : Friday, November 23, 2012 6:06:06 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
devolution next year will lead to a fall in land prices around Nairobi!..
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
murchr
#7 Posted : Friday, November 23, 2012 6:09:50 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
guru267 wrote:
devolution next year will lead to a fall in land prices around Nairobi!..


How? Explain using examples
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
ChessMaster
#8 Posted : Friday, November 23, 2012 6:11:05 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/23/2009
Posts: 1,626
guru267 wrote:
devolution next year will lead to a fall in land prices around Nairobi!..

Applause Applause I also think improvements on the transportation system will help in this
Uncertainty is certain.Let go
guru267
#9 Posted : Friday, November 23, 2012 6:18:15 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
murchr wrote:
guru267 wrote:
devolution next year will lead to a fall in land prices around Nairobi!..


How? Explain using examples


I have been to ruiru and kiambu county and these areas could compare easily to Karen & runda in a few years with the housing construction & infrastructure.. But there are huge discrepancies in land prices (Karen = 40M @acre & kiambu = 8M @acre)

Devolution will also reduce demand for property in Nairobi as Kenyans begin to feel comfortable living and working in their own counties!

This will probably lead to lower prices around Nairobi and higher land prices in the other counties.. So you know where to buy! smile
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
murchr
#10 Posted : Friday, November 23, 2012 6:59:24 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Devolution will create the "Rundas" and "Karens" of the various counties. The demand of land in Nrb will continue to rise tho not at rapidly as it is now. I dont think people will want to instantly move to the counties. As long as people will want to live and work in the city, the demand of land and housing will still go up. Remember its the govt devolving.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
S.Mutaga III
#11 Posted : Friday, November 23, 2012 7:08:43 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/26/2012
Posts: 830
The moment I hear that a blue chip company is headquartered anywhere outside Nairobi e.g Nyeri or Nakuru,I will know where best to speculate e.g on land...
A successful man is not he who gets the best, it is he who makes the best from what he gets.
guru267
#12 Posted : Friday, November 23, 2012 7:10:43 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
murchr wrote:
As long as people will want to live and work in the city, the demand of land and housing will still go up. Remember its the govt devolving.


i hope You are aware that there will be more than 6 cities in Kenya come 2030 so although Nairobi will still be the capital a lot of Kenyans will make their millions elsewhere!

Just look at the US.. Although we have New York we still have many Americans preferring to live comfortably elsewhere!
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
murchr
#13 Posted : Friday, November 23, 2012 8:15:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
guru267 wrote:
murchr wrote:
As long as people will want to live and work in the city, the demand of land and housing will still go up. Remember its the govt devolving.


i hope You are aware that there will be more than 6 cities in Kenya come 2030 so although Nairobi will still be the capital a lot of Kenyans will make their millions elsewhere!

Just look at the US.. Although we have New York we still have many Americans preferring to live comfortably elsewhere!


I also hope you are aware that by then the population is projected to be at 77 M if we continue adding more new Kenyans per year at the rate that we are doing it. If you look at our demographics the bulk of the population is aged between 15 and 40...(potential(tomorrows) land buyers and home owners).

On your example of the US. Do u know Newyorkers prefer living in the city? Where they can walk or cycle to work. The US cities are so well planned that an estate like South-B is referred to a city (a dorm city ofcourse) with its own police, utility providers and local gov, and they have a population limit - in such cities there are no bulk employers (eg industrial area) people still go to the CITIES(larger metropolis) to work. Eg...live in Kiambu but work in Nrb.

Ofcourse cities like Konza will decongest the CITY but as long as demand for housing is high..land prices will be up there.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
Ash Ock
#14 Posted : Friday, November 23, 2012 8:15:59 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/27/2010
Posts: 495
Location: Nairobi
Nairobi is in the middle of a crazy land speculation, where the main driving factor of buying property is that the price will keep on rising and rising forever. Before the speculation started, most people were simply buying a home to live in with their family, not investing to make super profits or for fear that real estate prices would be crazily high just a couple of months down the line.

Reading Wazua, what’s the most common answer to someone who has a bit of money on the side and wants to invest? Land. Buy land, do nothing at all and you’ll make tons of money in a few years when you flip it. At least in stocks, you have the management trying to make money by producing something yet in land, what’s being produced to raise the value sky-high? The demand. So what’s driving the demand?

In a way, the land speculation fueling this fake market upsurge is like a pyramid scheme, where the early entrants (Villacare, Suraya, etc) made a killing and copycats are surging along hoping to pull in even more suckers to buy overpriced properties and overvalued land with negative yields promising them super appreciation within just a couple of years. Yet sooner rather than later the newcomers will start dwindling (if they haven’t already) when the entry prices become just too high for the common struggling (wo)man to afford and the whole game will come tumbling down. It’s really inevitable.

Every single economy has housing bubbles yet here we act as if we’re completely immune. The Japanese, with a much stronger economy, industry, and more disposable income for their citizens, suffered a massive real estate crash in 1990 when they started speculating in real estate, driving real estate prices to the stratosphere, exactly as we’re doing.
Sent from my Black Nokia 3310
itz
#15 Posted : Friday, November 23, 2012 8:28:01 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/20/2009
Posts: 348
guru267 wrote:
murchr wrote:
guru267 wrote:
devolution next year will lead to a fall in land prices around Nairobi!..


How? Explain using examples


I have been to ruiru and kiambu county and these areas could compare easily to Karen & runda in a few years with the housing construction & infrastructure.. But there are huge discrepancies in land prices (Karen = 40M @acre & kiambu = 8M @acre)

Devolution will also reduce demand for property in Nairobi as Kenyans begin to feel comfortable living and working in their own counties!

This will probably lead to lower prices around Nairobi and higher land prices in the other counties.. So you know where to buy! smile


yes Kiambu county will appreciate in the coming years as it becomes the suburb area of choice for many.However this will not be the same for all the other counties until as someone here very well pointed out that people will move out of nairobi area to the counties if big employers relocate or establish new business in the counties. All the big players have just relocated their HQs from CBD to upperhill or westlands.They clearly have no plans to leave nairobi in the short to medium term.Kiambu county would be my no.1 choice for investment because of proximity to nairobi,it has money and large investors are willing to put money in it.
itz
#16 Posted : Friday, November 23, 2012 9:08:04 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/20/2009
Posts: 348
Rapudox wrote:
How can it be, that a Nairobi-Bred Ex-Eastlander with monthly savings of about 150,000Kshs cannot afford a family home in the Upmarket (Lavi, Kile, Thome, Kitisuru etc) areas of this CITY???
What if somebody doesnt want to live 30-40kms away from the CBD, doesnt want to buy that shady overpriced apartment in leafy areas...?? And who the hell goes for a mortgage @20% interest rate??.This rate means paying up to 4 times the original price after 20yrs or so!
There is no way, absolutely no way that house in Karen or Nyari for 50M, will be worth 100M (1M$) in 15 years....People keep on saying, there will be no bubble burst....ehh??, How is this going to work out, are they for real??..Even if those properties are bought for cash....any right thinking person would expect no value appreciation, at least in the next 10-20yrs. Its totally insaneShame on you . For 50M, one could buy at least 2 solid good homes in good eurpoean cities. Its heartbreaking, to realise that you can afford a home in western cities, but you cant afford that "same home" in your home city....even when you have reached a level, where you monthly earnings are at least 6 times the per capita income of Kenya......very frustrating


unfortunately my friend something called inflation can make that house going for 50M today worth 150M in 15 years.You have to remember that prices were also suppressed in nairobi for more than 20 yrs so they exploded in the last 10 years and they have a tendency to overshoot also.i expect them to cool off at some point but not to crash..I wouldn't chase the market right here, if you are able to and have the money always buy value in real estate.Europe and US today offer you a 50%+ discount compared to nairobi.
ChessMaster
#17 Posted : Friday, November 23, 2012 9:22:25 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/23/2009
Posts: 1,626
Ash Ock wrote:
Nairobi is in the middle of a crazy land speculation, where the main driving factor of buying property is that the price will keep on rising and rising forever. Before the speculation started, most people were simply buying a home to live in with their family, not investing to make super profits or for fear that real estate prices would be crazily high just a couple of months down the line.

Reading Wazua, what’s the most common answer to someone who has a bit of money on the side and wants to invest? Land. Buy land, do nothing at all and you’ll make tons of money in a few years when you flip it. At least in stocks, you have the management trying to make money by producing something yet in land, what’s being produced to raise the value sky-high? The demand. So what’s driving the demand?

In a way, the land speculation fueling this fake market upsurge is like a pyramid scheme, where the early entrants (Villacare, Suraya, etc) made a killing and copycats are surging along hoping to pull in even more suckers to buy overpriced properties and overvalued land with negative yields promising them super appreciation within just a couple of years. Yet sooner rather than later the newcomers will start dwindling (if they haven’t already) when the entry prices become just too high for the common struggling (wo)man to afford and the whole game will come tumbling down. It’s really inevitable.

Every single economy has housing bubbles yet here we act as if we’re completely immune. The Japanese, with a much stronger economy, industry, and more disposable income for their citizens, suffered a massive real estate crash in 1990 when they started speculating in real estate, driving real estate prices to the stratosphere, exactly as we’re doing.

Applause Applause Applause
Uncertainty is certain.Let go
murchr
#18 Posted : Friday, November 23, 2012 10:23:23 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Ash Ock wrote:
Nairobi is in the middle of a crazy land speculation, where the main driving factor of buying property is that the price will keep on rising and rising forever. Before the speculation started, most people were simply buying a home to live in with their family, not investing to make super profits or for fear that real estate prices would be crazily high just a couple of months down the line.

Reading Wazua, what’s the most common answer to someone who has a bit of money on the side and wants to invest? Land. Buy land, do nothing at all and you’ll make tons of money in a few years when you flip it. At least in stocks, you have the management trying to make money by producing something yet in land, what’s being produced to raise the value sky-high? The demand. So what’s driving the demand?

In a way, the land speculation fueling this fake market upsurge is like a pyramid scheme, where the early entrants (Villacare, Suraya, etc) made a killing and copycats are surging along hoping to pull in even more suckers to buy overpriced properties and overvalued land with negative yields promising them super appreciation within just a couple of years. Yet sooner rather than later the newcomers will start dwindling (if they haven’t already) when the entry prices become just too high for the common struggling (wo)man to afford and the whole game will come tumbling down. It’s really inevitable.

Every single economy has housing bubbles yet here we act as if we’re completely immune. The Japanese, with a much stronger economy, industry, and more disposable income for their citizens, suffered a massive real estate crash in 1990 when they started speculating in real estate, driving real estate prices to the stratosphere, exactly as we’re doing.


What you have described here is that the prices are rising due to speculation. In other words-the greater fool theory- and there will come a time when there are no fools to sell to anymore.

You cited the Japanese economy and bubble, can Kenya compare to Japan? Compare Japs demographics and Kenyas even in 1990..the majority of japanese are over 40 to 60 years of age. Making Japan the oldest country in the world. Their market just got saturated, there was no one to buy the houses. Infact now, the country has started recruiting new immigrants to work and live there and granting citizenships to japs who were not born in japan.
In as much as the greater fool theory may be at play, we need to look at other factors..we have a rising economy, a young population which is growing very fast, and yes inflation. Tho those who want to venture in this real estate should focus on the lower middle income segment, we aint making so many millionaires.

"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
jamplu
#19 Posted : Friday, November 23, 2012 10:27:36 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/25/2010
Posts: 939
Location: Nai
Ash Ock wrote:
Nairobi is in the middle of a crazy land speculation, where the main driving factor of buying property is that the price will keep on rising and rising forever. Before the speculation started, most people were simply buying a home to live in with their family, not investing to make super profits or for fear that real estate prices would be crazily high just a couple of months down the line.

Reading Wazua, what’s the most common answer to someone who has a bit of money on the side and wants to invest? Land. Buy land, do nothing at all and you’ll make tons of money in a few years when you flip it. At least in stocks, you have the management trying to make money by producing something yet in land, what’s being produced to raise the value sky-high? The demand. So what’s driving the demand?

In a way, the land speculation fueling this fake market upsurge is like a pyramid scheme, where the early entrants (Villacare, Suraya, etc) made a killing and copycats are surging along hoping to pull in even more suckers to buy overpriced properties and overvalued land with negative yields promising them super appreciation within just a couple of years. Yet sooner rather than later the newcomers will start dwindling (if they haven’t already) when the entry prices become just too high for the common struggling (wo)man to afford and the whole game will come tumbling down. It’s really inevitable.

Every single economy has housing bubbles yet here we act as if we’re completely immune. The Japanese, with a much stronger economy, industry, and more disposable income for their citizens, suffered a massive real estate crash in 1990 when they started speculating in real estate, driving real estate prices to the stratosphere, exactly as we’re doing.


@Ash Ock somewhere in this thread you will hear of the statistics and the demand and supply stories. But the bottom line is we are not heading in the right direction on matters real estate.
First we are doing things backwards we are building the rest and assuming the infrastructure will follow.
Secondly these things we are investing in called flats standing on 80X60 or 50X100 and going up 6floors are slowly turning our towns into slums i
guru267
#20 Posted : Saturday, November 24, 2012 10:37:59 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
In the long term (2030) some towns like Nakuru, Mombasa, eldoret & kisumu would have transformed to cities with infrastructure equaling that in Nairobi!

Top employers may still have their HQs in Nairobi but with the right infrastructure will be willing/forced to expand to other cities! Housing developments will also be in plenty.. (GM in the USA has factories spread around the country some in small towns)

In any game there is a winner & a loser! This demographic change is inevitable and the likely loser is Nairobi real estate and the winner will be real estate in the counties!

an acre in Kericho is going for 500k while in Lamu an acre goes for 200k... The future possible returns from these locations make Nairobi look like childsplay!
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
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