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National Security Why we need Firm Decisive Action/Solution
Lolest!
#11 Posted : Thursday, November 22, 2012 8:56:15 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Deleted
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Lolest!
#12 Posted : Thursday, November 22, 2012 8:58:10 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Wazua seems to be moving to a consensus that excessive force needs to be used on the communities that caused the 2 incidents against security officers. I hope, that should it come to that level that guys will not turn against the same govt they incited against its people. I am not holding my breath for this though. The level of activism in kenya has risen sharply. Govt security bosses always on the spotlight over operations. As we speak, parliament is demanding answers from Haji on why excessive force is being used in Garissa. Turkana MPs have threatened legal action should govt launch a punitive operation. This same govt still has memories of Philip Alston n Mungiki cases, post poll chaos cases, mt elgon etc. Most of those killed by police in such cases were just security forces doing their job. Also, the media. Jicho Pevu will def make a series from Garissa operation and claim gvt was heavy handed. The judiciary is another. Brethren, this is the path we chose when we opted for democracy. Dont compare with Ug and Rwanda. U cant eat your cake and still have it!
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
maka
#13 Posted : Thursday, November 22, 2012 9:51:13 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
FRM2011 wrote:
I like the way kenyans display their fake outrage. The moral from the story by nation columnist onyango obbo, is that we are a failed state. I guess he couldn't say it loudly because he is ugandan. But kenyans including wazuans completely missed that. There is no other country in the world where you can kill 42 cops and get away with it.

Just remember the commandaer of the troops who were killed in baragoi actually called police headquarters to say they had been attacked and some of his men had been killed. Well it wasn't until another two days for red cross to get there by which time the brave soldier had bled to death. Ooh and even by then the top dogs at vigilante house had not bothered to visit baragoi. Plus you president and anyone who matters in govt were busy attending to more important business like opening the VP's house in karen.

What did the president say about the killings? Aah i remember, NOTHING. Remember when 150 kenyans were killed by sdlf in mt elgon? Well your commander in chief didn't notice. Wait until 9 kenyans died in a plane crash in cameroon, he was all over declaring 3 days of nationak mourning. Kwamchetsi makhoha put it so succintly, mt elgon people need to learn how to die in a posh manner to catch the president's attention.

...well said,some animals are greater than others.
possunt quia posse videntur
itz
#14 Posted : Thursday, November 22, 2012 11:41:49 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 3/20/2009
Posts: 348
Intelligentsia wrote:
Rahatupu
2. [b wrote:
Our intelligence system has failed[/b]


Maybe, maybe not.

But note that a lot of big planned terrorist ops (esp. on skyscrapers) on our soil have actually been foiled through coordinated intelligence but these will never ever make it to the dailies. Still, publicised cases such as the capture of those 2 Iranians (na walienda wapi?) with the powerful RDX explosives, showing a good case of maturity of our intelligence apparatus, even the Americans and Israelis were impressed.

Plus no country can have 100% intelligence success all the time, some plots always slip through the cracks and succeed, such as the terrorist attacks in Mumbai, Kampala bombings (Ug has a very no. of informers - hao wasee wa boda boda), 9/11 in U.S, etc.



@intelligentsia thinking above the fray.Kenyan intelligence NSIS has succeeded so far because as you said no big targets have been hit and you can tell by the attacks that have happened that the attackers are desperate because they can only get to small targets.
Rahatupu
#15 Posted : Friday, November 23, 2012 10:12:12 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 1,982
Location: matano manne
Lolest! wrote:
Wazua seems to be moving to a consensus that excessive force needs to be used on the communities that caused the 2 incidents against security officers. I hope, that should it come to that level that guys will not turn against the same govt they incited against its people. I am not holding my breath for this though. The level of activism in kenya has risen sharply. Govt security bosses always on the spotlight over operations. As we speak, parliament is demanding answers from Haji on why excessive force is being used in Garissa. Turkana MPs have threatened legal action should govt launch a punitive operation. This same govt still has memories of Philip Alston n Mungiki cases, post poll chaos cases, mt elgon etc. Most of those killed by police in such cases were just security forces doing their job. Also, the media. Jicho Pevu will def make a series from Garissa operation and claim gvt was heavy handed. The judiciary is another. Brethren, this is the path we chose when we opted for democracy. Dont compare with Ug and Rwanda. U cant eat your cake and still have it!
.

@Lol, what was the amount of force used to kill the 42 Police officer? Minimum?
Was excessive force not used to kill the 3 KDF officers?
Which Community killed? Or was it a bunch of people from these "community(s))?
The most important thing is not to lament about the cause, history.. blabla failure and blame game. No. Its time to chart a way forward. Do short term tactical operation as well as put in place long term measures. To condone killing of security agents is to negate the need for these officers in the first place.

Democracy cannot be equated to disorder and coddling of of crime, terrorism, banditry whatever you call it. The same force that is meted out on security agents must also be meted out on those who kill them and no one must be allowed to shield such goons.

You are either with them (terrorists/bandits/criminals) or with the government (security agents)no middle ground. Period.
kollabo
#16 Posted : Friday, November 23, 2012 1:52:29 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 2/3/2012
Posts: 1,317
maka wrote:
FRM2011 wrote:
I like the way kenyans display their fake outrage. The moral from the story by nation columnist onyango obbo, is that we are a failed state. I guess he couldn't say it loudly because he is ugandan. But kenyans including wazuans completely missed that. There is no other country in the world where you can kill 42 cops and get away with it.

Just remember the commandaer of the troops who were killed in baragoi actually called police headquarters to say they had been attacked and some of his men had been killed. Well it wasn't until another two days for red cross to get there by which time the brave soldier had bled to death. Ooh and even by then the top dogs at vigilante house had not bothered to visit baragoi. Plus you president and anyone who matters in govt were busy attending to more important business like opening the VP's house in karen.

What did the president say about the killings? Aah i remember, NOTHING. Remember when 150 kenyans were killed by sdlf in mt elgon? Well your commander in chief didn't notice. Wait until 9 kenyans died in a plane crash in cameroon, he was all over declaring 3 days of nationak mourning. Kwamchetsi makhoha put it so succintly, mt elgon people need to learn how to die in a posh manner to catch the president's attention.

...well said,some animals are greater than others.


Remember the Thika PCEA women who died in TZ? No disrespect to them, but Chopper and condolences came very fast.
Rahatupu
#17 Posted : Friday, November 23, 2012 4:02:50 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 1,982
Location: matano manne
kollabo wrote:
maka wrote:
FRM2011 wrote:
I like the way kenyans display their fake outrage. The moral from the story by nation columnist onyango obbo, is that we are a failed state. I guess he couldn't say it loudly because he is ugandan. But kenyans including wazuans completely missed that. There is no other country in the world where you can kill 42 cops and get away with it.

Just remember the commandaer of the troops who were killed in baragoi actually called police headquarters to say they had been attacked and some of his men had been killed. Well it wasn't until another two days for red cross to get there by which time the brave soldier had bled to death. Ooh and even by then the top dogs at vigilante house had not bothered to visit baragoi. Plus you president and anyone who matters in govt were busy attending to more important business like opening the VP's house in karen.

What did the president say about the killings? Aah i remember, NOTHING. Remember when 150 kenyans were killed by sdlf in mt elgon? Well your commander in chief didn't notice. Wait until 9 kenyans died in a plane crash in cameroon, he was all over declaring 3 days of nationak mourning. Kwamchetsi makhoha put it so succintly, mt elgon people need to learn how to die in a posh manner to catch the president's attention.

...well said,some animals are greater than others.


Remember the Thika PCEA women who died in TZ? No disrespect to them, but Chopper and condolences came very fast.
.

@Kollabo, I dismissed the naysayers on the TZ issue, lakini it now seems that Baks is too elitist to be moved by deaths that are not posh.
simonkabz
#18 Posted : Friday, November 23, 2012 9:32:38 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
We have enough military transport helis. The police top brass should have swallowed their pride n sought for help from the military. The death of the GSU inspector is a total embarassment to Kenya. Iteere should go, I bow my head in shame!
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
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