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ICC No show & Ramifications
Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/31/2008 Posts: 1,076
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From what I can make of the ongoing shenanigans, come April 11 2013, ICC will get a No show scenario. As sure as night follows day, warrants will fly. They could even come earlier given the bravado and posturing we are seeing! That is why the next President is important: 1)For Kenya and her welfare. 2)For those with issues at the Hague. My take is, the interest of the two sets of people as above are not compatible in fat they are very much at variance. Which way people!!!!!!!!!!! Dunia ni msongamano..
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/1/2008 Posts: 1,098
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B.Timer wrote:From what I can make of the ongoing shenanigans, come April 11 2013, ICC will get a No show scenario.
As sure as night follows day, warrants will fly.
They could even come earlier given the bravado and posturing we are seeing!
That is why the next President is important:
1)For Kenya and her welfare.
2)For those with issues at the Hague.
My take is, the interest of the two sets of people as above are not compatible in fat they are very much at variance.
Which way people!!!!!!!!!!! There is only one, democracy! Do not vote for the two, vote for the one you like. 
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Jump-steady wrote:B.Timer wrote:From what I can make of the ongoing shenanigans, come April 11 2013, ICC will get a No show scenario.
As sure as night follows day, warrants will fly.
They could even come earlier given the bravado and posturing we are seeing!
That is why the next President is important:
1)For Kenya and her welfare.
2)For those with issues at the Hague.
My take is, the interest of the two sets of people as above are not compatible in fat they are very much at variance.
Which way people!!!!!!!!!!! There is only one, democracy! Do not vote for the two, vote for the one you like. The suspects are fighting to protect their interests. Do you think they'll sit back and wait for your vote? And do you think you'll vote them out by distributing T-shirts in the name of campaigning? How many T-shirts can they afford? We need very clear and loving thinking on this matter. If there's anyone not playing his part; it is the Wazuan who prefers to watch things unfold and expect them to favor him.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/14/2006 Posts: 1,311
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Some very prominent people said that the Kenya Cases will either MAKE or BREAK ICC.
If Uhuru and Ruto are elected as President and Deputy President, ICC will be put between a rock and a hard place.
If UMK and WK appear before the ICC as President and DP.... the ICC will be trying the whole country called Kenya. This is because the President and DP stop representing their individual interests and are taken to only represent the interests of their country. This is the international protocol.
Why will a few individual sit as ICC to judge the people Kenyans have elected? Why will they want to appear bigger than the Kenyan people?
This is an issue that will divide the world right in the middle.... Western Countries will prefer the case to continue against a sitting president and DP and the rest including China and Russian will resist this because it breaches international protocol.
ICC will be forced to either postpone the cases indefinitely or throw the cases out.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/3/2012 Posts: 1,317
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Liv wrote:Some very prominent people said that the Kenya Cases will either MAKE or BREAK ICC.
If Uhuru and Ruto are elected as President and Deputy President, ICC will be put between a rock and a hard place.
If UMK and WK appear before the ICC as President and DP.... the ICC will be trying the whole country called Kenya. This is because the President and DP stop representing their individual interests and are taken to only represent the interests of their country. This is the international protocol.
Why will a few individual sit as ICC to judge the people Kenyans have elected? Why will they want to appear bigger than the Kenyan people?
This is an issue that will divide the world right in the middle.... Western Countries will prefer the case to continue against a sitting president and DP and the rest including China and Russian will resist this because it breaches international protocol.
ICC will be forced to either postpone the cases indefinitely or throw the cases out. Hiyo ni ndoto. Ask Al Bashir
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Liv wrote:Some very prominent people said that the Kenya Cases will either MAKE or BREAK ICC.
If Uhuru and Ruto are elected as President and Deputy President, ICC will be put between a rock and a hard place.
If UMK and WK appear before the ICC as President and DP.... the ICC will be trying the whole country called Kenya. This is because the President and DP stop representing their individual interests and are taken to only represent the interests of their country. This is the international protocol.
Why will a few individual sit as ICC to judge the people Kenyans have elected? Why will they want to appear bigger than the Kenyan people?
This is an issue that will divide the world right in the middle.... Western Countries will prefer the case to continue against a sitting president and DP and the rest including China and Russian will resist this because it breaches international protocol.
ICC will be forced to either postpone the cases indefinitely or throw the cases out. And how will we account for the dead, the orphaned and the widowed? How will we account for our existence? It is humanity that is on trial here not just UK or Ruto! Besides, the international state system is undergoing radical transformation, what role are we going to play? Are we going to promote even more human polarization?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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@Liv, wacha jokes bwana!! Being President and Deputy President will not solve anything. These two will just get warrants of arrest and be confined to Kenya-Khartoum-Beijing. Some African countries will have them arrested if they set foot in their capitals. Charging them will not amount to charges against the Kenyan voter. Remember this case was there long before they declared they're running. I wonder why Samoei marshalled support for ICC option. It is both shameful and is potentially a lose-lose situation for the country and the suspects.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/7/2010 Posts: 2,148 Location: elderville
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Liv wrote:.. If UMK and WK appear before the ICC as President and DP.... the ICC will be trying the whole country called Kenya. This is because the President and DP stop representing their individual interests and are taken to only represent the interests of their country. This is the international protocol.
Why will a few individual sit as ICC to judge the people Kenyans have elected? Why will they want to appear bigger than the Kenyan people?... Stop posting above your pay grade. He who can express in words the ardour of his love, has but little love to express. - Petrach, Son. (That men by various ways arrive at the same end. - Montaigne, The Essays of.)
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/14/2006 Posts: 1,311
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Lolest! wrote:@Liv, wacha jokes bwana!! Being President and Deputy President will not solve anything.
These two will just get warrants of arrest and be confined to Kenya-Khartoum-Beijing. Some African countries will have them arrested if they set foot in their capitals.
Charging them will not amount to charges against the Kenyan voter. Remember this case was there long before they declared they're running.
I wonder why Samoei marshalled support for ICC option. It is both shameful and is potentially a lose-lose situation for the country and the suspects. @Lolest,
The point is that... if these 2 are elected to lead the country.... the world must take note that .... the Kenyan people have elected them...when they were already indicted and were having the cases in progress at ICC. That means that the Kenyan people have voted against ICC and what it stands for.... Remember ICC is saying that these cases are to protect the Kenyan people. If Kenyan people elect the 2 the message to ICC is... Kenya is not supporting the case and ICC have Indicted the wrong people. (Do you remember what The PEV victims told Fatou Bensouda? They told her she is prosecuting the wrong people). For ICC to continue with the case... it will mean they do not respect the people of Kenya and they have no regard for democracy. That why ICC will be in a dilemma. This is matter that may end at the UN security council.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/1/2008 Posts: 1,098
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Liv wrote:Lolest! wrote:@Liv, wacha jokes bwana!! Being President and Deputy President will not solve anything.
These two will just get warrants of arrest and be confined to Kenya-Khartoum-Beijing. Some African countries will have them arrested if they set foot in their capitals.
Charging them will not amount to charges against the Kenyan voter. Remember this case was there long before they declared they're running.
I wonder why Samoei marshalled support for ICC option. It is both shameful and is potentially a lose-lose situation for the country and the suspects. @Lolest,
The point is that... if these 2 are elected to lead the country.... the world must take note that .... the Kenyan people have elected them...when they were already indicted and were having the cases in progress at ICC. That means that the Kenyan people have voted against ICC and what it stands for.... Remember ICC is saying that these cases are to protect the Kenyan people. If Kenyan people elect the 2 the message to ICC is... Kenya is not supporting the case and ICC have Indicted the wrong people. (Do you remember what The PEV victims told Fatou Bensouda? They told her she is prosecuting the wrong people). For ICC to continue with the case... it will mean they do not respect the people of Kenya and they have no regard for democracy. That why ICC will be in a dilemma. This is matter that may end at the UN security council. @Liv you argument is not in vain. If the suspects are elected, the people of Kenya will in essence be pinching the ICC's nose, Barasa style!
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/12/2007 Posts: 75
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Liv wrote:Some very prominent people said that the Kenya Cases will either MAKE or BREAK ICC.
If Uhuru and Ruto are elected as President and Deputy President, ICC will be put between a rock and a hard place.
If UMK and WK appear before the ICC as President and DP.... the ICC will be trying the whole country called Kenya. This is because the President and DP stop representing their individual interests and are taken to only represent the interests of their country. This is the international protocol.
Why will a few individual sit as ICC to judge the people Kenyans have elected? Why will they want to appear bigger than the Kenyan people?
This is an issue that will divide the world right in the middle.... Western Countries will prefer the case to continue against a sitting president and DP and the rest including China and Russian will resist this because it breaches international protocol.
ICC will be forced to either postpone the cases indefinitely or throw the cases out. We are all entitled to an opinion but the thought of voting for the "Hague" coalition is simply obscene. For the sake of more than 1600 innocent Kenyans who lost their lives, thousands who were injured or displaced, someone has to pay for the madness.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/15/2011 Posts: 4,518
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Liv wrote:Some very prominent people said that the Kenya Cases will either MAKE or BREAK ICC.
If Uhuru and Ruto are elected as President and Deputy President, ICC will be put between a rock and a hard place.
If UMK and WK appear before the ICC as President and DP.... the ICC will be trying the whole country called Kenya. This is because the President and DP stop representing their individual interests and are taken to only represent the interests of their country. This is the international protocol.
Quote:
The mandate of the Court is to try individuals rather than States, and to hold such persons accountable for the most serious crimes of concern to the international community as a whole, namely the crime of genocide, war crimes, crimes against humanity, and the crime of aggression, when the conditions for the exercise of the Court’s jurisdiction over the latter are fulfilled.
Why will a few individual sit as ICC to judge the people Kenyans have elected? Why will they want to appear bigger than the Kenyan people?
Because we are a member state.
We signed and ratified the statue.The rest is noise.
This is an issue that will divide the world right in the middle.... Western Countries will prefer the case to continue against a sitting president and DP and the rest including China and Russian will resist this because it breaches international protocol.
Huh?? Kenyan case to divide the world? Do you know how many mad cases they have handled and those in wait? The world still goes on.
China and Russia to resist? How now when they are least interested?
Russia hasn't ratified the statue.
China hasn't signed let alone ratify it.
What jurisdiction do they have over it?
They aren't chewpid.
ICC will be forced to either postpone the cases indefinitely or throw the cases out.I think you are day dreaming.
It's budget here.The ICC runs on budget and all member countries plus other contributing org are watching to see how it ends. I doubt they have time and money to waste pursuing this, esp now when they have strained budget. "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/25/2010 Posts: 939 Location: Nai
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Liv wrote:Some very prominent people said that the Kenya Cases will either MAKE or BREAK ICC.
If Uhuru and Ruto are elected as President and Deputy President, ICC will be put between a rock and a hard place.
If UMK and WK appear before the ICC as President and DP.... the ICC will be trying the whole country called Kenya. This is because the President and DP stop representing their individual interests and are taken to only represent the interests of their country. This is the international protocol.
Why will a few individual sit as ICC to judge the people Kenyans have elected? Why will they want to appear bigger than the Kenyan people?
This is an issue that will divide the world right in the middle.... Western Countries will prefer the case to continue against a sitting president and DP and the rest including China and Russian will resist this because it breaches international protocol.
ICC will be forced to either postpone the cases indefinitely or throw the cases out. Liv first stop shouting we can read black and white. What makes you think Kenya and the two suspects are so special...Tell them not to show up then!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2007 Posts: 8,776 Location: Cameroon
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Jump-steady wrote:Liv wrote:Lolest! wrote:@Liv, wacha jokes bwana!! Being President and Deputy President will not solve anything.
These two will just get warrants of arrest and be confined to Kenya-Khartoum-Beijing. Some African countries will have them arrested if they set foot in their capitals.
Charging them will not amount to charges against the Kenyan voter. Remember this case was there long before they declared they're running.
I wonder why Samoei marshalled support for ICC option. It is both shameful and is potentially a lose-lose situation for the country and the suspects. @Lolest,
The point is that... if these 2 are elected to lead the country.... the world must take note that .... the Kenyan people have elected them...when they were already indicted and were having the cases in progress at ICC. That means that the Kenyan people have voted against ICC and what it stands for.... Remember ICC is saying that these cases are to protect the Kenyan people. If Kenyan people elect the 2 the message to ICC is... Kenya is not supporting the case and ICC have Indicted the wrong people. (Do you remember what The PEV victims told Fatou Bensouda? They told her she is prosecuting the wrong people). For ICC to continue with the case... it will mean they do not respect the people of Kenya and they have no regard for democracy. That why ICC will be in a dilemma. This is matter that may end at the UN security council. @Liv you argument is not in vain. If the suspects are elected, the people of Kenya will in essence be pinching the ICC's nose, Barasa style! My friend wacha ndoto. Last I checked, Bashir was elected president with a warrant hanging on his balls! Get real. TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/12/2010 Posts: 474 Location: Nairobi
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There is a clause in the Hague statute that clearly states that any case would continue if its not a threat to security of the country in question. No country would ever arrest a siting president. Russia and China are a strong force who would be against that. If UMK and one Ruto gets to the house in the hill, the best ICC can do is have fresh investigations. People must pay for their sins. In my honest opinion, Ruto could not have planned anything without his master who was the main beneficially of the killings. Justice must be applied to all. Keep it simple
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Rank: Chief Joined: 3/24/2010 Posts: 6,779 Location: Black Africa
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Mtoto akililia wembe, mpe! People asked for The Hague option GOD BLESS YOUR LIFE
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2008 Posts: 2,718
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simonkabz wrote:
My friend wacha ndoto. Last I checked, Bashir was elected president with a warrant hanging on his balls! Get real.
Ndoto ni kutarajia kumuona Rais Uhuru Kenyatta wa Kenya kizimbani. He will not show up. If the Kenyan people elect him president then for the dignity of the country he should not show up. Not as president. It was embarassing enough for us as a country to fail to investigate and prosecute post election violence perpetrators here at home. It was humiliating enough for the ICC to turn the case into a witch hunt and a total mockery of judicial process. Let us not debase ourselves further by subjecting our duly elected president to the shenanigans of a kangaroo court that is the ICC.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/14/2006 Posts: 1,311
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jamplu wrote:Liv wrote:Some very prominent people said that the Kenya Cases will either MAKE or BREAK ICC.
If Uhuru and Ruto are elected as President and Deputy President, ICC will be put between a rock and a hard place.
If UMK and WK appear before the ICC as President and DP.... the ICC will be trying the whole country called Kenya. This is because the President and DP stop representing their individual interests and are taken to only represent the interests of their country. This is the international protocol.
Why will a few individual sit as ICC to judge the people Kenyans have elected? Why will they want to appear bigger than the Kenyan people?
This is an issue that will divide the world right in the middle.... Western Countries will prefer the case to continue against a sitting president and DP and the rest including China and Russian will resist this because it breaches international protocol.
ICC will be forced to either postpone the cases indefinitely or throw the cases out. Liv first stop shouting we can read black and white. What makes you think Kenya and the two suspects are so special...Tell them not to show up then! @Jamplu, Blue is my colour and this is my writing style. According to the blog / chatting etiquette, SHOUTING IS WHEN YOU WRITE IN CAPITAL LETTERS.
If you have nothing to write or contribute.... why don't just keep off?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/14/2006 Posts: 1,311
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essyk wrote:Liv wrote:Some very prominent people said that the Kenya Cases will either MAKE or BREAK ICC.
If Uhuru and Ruto are elected as President and Deputy President, ICC will be put between a rock and a hard place.
If UMK and WK appear before the ICC as President and DP.... the ICC will be trying the whole country called Kenya. This is because the President and DP stop representing their individual interests and are taken to only represent the interests of their country. This is the international protocol.
Quote:
The mandate of the Court is to try individuals rather than States, and to hold such persons accountable for the most serious crimes of concern to the international community as a whole, namely the crime of genocide, war crimes, crimes against humanity, and the crime of aggression, when the conditions for the exercise of the Court’s jurisdiction over the latter are fulfilled.
Why will a few individual sit as ICC to judge the people Kenyans have elected? Why will they want to appear bigger than the Kenyan people?
Because we are a member state.
We signed and ratified the statue.The rest is noise.
This is an issue that will divide the world right in the middle.... Western Countries will prefer the case to continue against a sitting president and DP and the rest including China and Russian will resist this because it breaches international protocol.
Huh?? Kenyan case to divide the world? Do you know how many mad cases they have handled and those in wait? The world still goes on.
China and Russia to resist? How now when they are least interested?
Russia hasn't ratified the statue.
China hasn't signed let alone ratify it.
What jurisdiction do they have over it?
They aren't chewpid.
ICC will be forced to either postpone the cases indefinitely or throw the cases out.I think you are day dreaming.
It's budget here.The ICC runs on budget and all member countries plus other contributing org are watching to see how it ends. I doubt they have time and money to waste pursuing this, esp now when they have strained budget. @Essyk,
My argument still stands. If UK and WR are elected.... ICC must review the approach to their cases. Remember they are innocent until they are proved guity.
Also there is a group of thinkers who have concluded that ICC was being used particularly by some countries in the west to block some people from acceeding to power in Kenya.... If this is true and kenyans elect these 2 the ICC will not be of any use if that was the purpose...as the objective will have failed.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 3,017
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richdad wrote:There is a clause in the Hague statute that clearly states that any case would continue if its not a threat to security of the country in question. No country would ever arrest a siting president. Russia and China are a strong force who would be against that.
If UMK and one Ruto gets to the house in the hill, the best ICC can do is have fresh investigations.
People must pay for their sins. In my honest opinion, Ruto could not have planned anything without his master who was the main beneficially of the killings.
Justice must be applied to all. The friends of russia and china are iran, zim, north korea and sudan so draw ur own conclusions on their ability to protect us. I dont know where you got the idea that there is a counter force to the us. "The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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