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Should the chiefs remain?
richdad
#1 Posted : Thursday, October 25, 2012 8:27:48 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/12/2010
Posts: 474
Location: Nairobi
I sincerely believe it will be a serious issue for government to work without its "eyes; chiefs and sub-chiefs.

The county government will be run by politicians and you can not leave then to solve disputes for obvious reasons.

Security is and will remain the role of Nairobi government. the provincial administration has been tested with time and proved to be a near perfect mechanism for national security and order.

They have a sure case of being lied to by both sides of this mkate nusu and their jobs are at stake.
Keep it simple
josiah33
#2 Posted : Thursday, October 25, 2012 9:00:47 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/27/2011
Posts: 1,777
They should go.
Lolest!
#3 Posted : Thursday, October 25, 2012 10:59:32 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Lets look at it from another angle. What duty will the chiefs lose to county govts? We know county govts will not be in charge of security.
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Coolio
#4 Posted : Friday, October 26, 2012 6:18:09 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/28/2008
Posts: 2,276
Location: Kibish
Waishie
Nadondosha meli kubwa seuze ngalawa!
madammary
#5 Posted : Friday, October 26, 2012 11:08:12 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/23/2011
Posts: 175
Location: Nairobi
Lolest! wrote:
Lets look at it from another angle. What duty will the chiefs lose to county govts? We know county govts will not be in charge of security.

Are we more secure now that we have chiefs? Let them go-i don't need to be parting with sh.50 everytime i want something small done for me by this crooks.
KulaRaha
#6 Posted : Friday, October 26, 2012 11:15:01 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/26/2007
Posts: 6,514
Chiefs want to go on strike! Does that mean they will stop taking bribes, stealing goats and chickens, self-allocating plots etc??

STRIKE STRIKE STRIKE!
Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
radio
#7 Posted : Friday, October 26, 2012 11:16:10 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/9/2009
Posts: 2,003
They represent the semblance of government to the wananchi or is it wenyenchi.

They help in dispute resolution, community mobilization and other many activities in village level. Remember the village is a community and it needs a leader.

I say they should STAY!
Coolio
#8 Posted : Friday, October 26, 2012 11:21:11 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/28/2008
Posts: 2,276
Location: Kibish
radio wrote:
They represent the semblance of government to the wananchi or is it wenyenchi.

They help in dispute resolution, community mobilization and other many activities in village level. Remember the village is a community and it needs a leader.

I say they should STAY!


I hate the way they conduct their duties! and Btw radio which location do you head? or are you aspiring to be one?
Nadondosha meli kubwa seuze ngalawa!
mawinder
#9 Posted : Friday, October 26, 2012 11:27:36 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/30/2008
Posts: 6,029
Kularaha,wapi link?
KulaRaha
#10 Posted : Friday, October 26, 2012 11:30:06 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/26/2007
Posts: 6,514
I heard on the radio this morning...no link...
Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
madammary
#11 Posted : Friday, October 26, 2012 12:20:26 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/23/2011
Posts: 175
Location: Nairobi
radio wrote:
They represent the semblance of government to the wananchi or is it wenyenchi.

They help in dispute resolution, community mobilization and other many activities in village level. Remember the village is a community and it needs a leader.

I say they should STAY!

Looks like u are actually reading from a text book description of the functions of a chief ready to sit for a history examination. Things are quite different on the ground radio. A chief's work is to actually extort money from widows who want to access their husband's pension monies and want to have them sign some forms. there is so much much more evil this chief's do. By the way, is the chief's office an alternative court and the chief an alternative judge and are the chief's judgements binding in terms of laws of kenya?
richdad
#12 Posted : Friday, October 26, 2012 12:45:20 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/12/2010
Posts: 474
Location: Nairobi
According to Kaguthi (Former Nairobi PC and NACADA boss) provincial administration do solve over 75% of disputes in Kenya.

Does it mean that Kenyan will have to travel miles to get burial certs and report petty disputes like land boundaries. We should accept that our society is not that enlightened and the bureaucracy of courts plus corrupt lawyers would make most people shy away from them. Kenyan court process is also too expensive for a commom mwananchi.

The county gvt will be run by politicians who might at times not be at par with the Nairobi government. Disputes will also be biased on where they get support.


Keep it simple
simonkabz
#13 Posted : Friday, October 26, 2012 1:00:08 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
kenyans are an awefully confused sorry lot. wazuans castigate politicians daily, but here we are ati we leave security matters with county govts. haha we are a veeeery confused society. I trust the dc n his men more than the governer n his kanjoras
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
simonkabz
#14 Posted : Friday, October 26, 2012 1:04:02 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
further, the katiba doesn't provide for local security. so, who shall do it? the Role of county govt is not security. I say again, it is not security provision, just dvt agenda.
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
tycho
#15 Posted : Friday, October 26, 2012 1:26:11 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
richdad wrote:
According to Kaguthi (Former Nairobi PC and NACADA boss) provincial administration do solve over 75% of disputes in Kenya.

Does it mean that Kenyan will have to travel miles to get burial certs and report petty disputes like land boundaries. We should accept that our society is not that enlightened and the bureaucracy of courts plus corrupt lawyers would make most people shy away from them. Kenyan court process is also too expensive for a commom mwananchi.

The county gvt will be run by politicians who might at times not be at par with the Nairobi government. Disputes will also be biased on where they get support.




The 'installation' of the chief was a resultant of political forces at a certain time. But now we should not simply say whether chiefs should go or not, but we should also interrogate the political context and the roles needed to be played by government at the smallest administrative unit.

One may argue that we are not an advanced country, but he will not be aiding his argument, for the facts of history are showing otherwise. We certainly have more educated citizens than we had in 1963. And besides, we do not need even a half of the citizenry to be 'enlightened' to create enlightened systems.

What kinds of conflict are we going to experience in the villages? Are villages the same as estates? Besides is an urban slum equal to a village?

What kind of leadership is the chief providing? Is it 'pro-people' or is it pro-government? For example, most leaders look at insecurity as a problem brought about by the youth. Is such a view acceptable?

I am finding it very difficult to call for the retention of chiefs. It is expected that if chiefs will protest about these changes but it is up to the leadership of the day to 'manage' this matter.

But look now, if we are so afraid of changing the village, can we change the state?

radio
#16 Posted : Friday, October 26, 2012 1:28:31 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/9/2009
Posts: 2,003
I am happy to see I am not alone in support of the chiefs.
Lucid_Iam
#17 Posted : Friday, October 26, 2012 2:14:48 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/30/2011
Posts: 483
They don't have to be called chiefs or provincial admin, their roles could be redefined. Who for instance will coordinate security at the local level? Who will issue IDs etc. Their role is critical, we shouldn't just say they need to go because the new katiba does not have a role for provincial admin. The problem with us is we never think through decisions.
sheri
#18 Posted : Friday, October 26, 2012 2:44:23 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/11/2007
Posts: 694
They should stay.
josiah33
#19 Posted : Friday, October 26, 2012 2:55:05 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/27/2011
Posts: 1,777
THEY SHOULD GO
simonkabz
#20 Posted : Friday, October 26, 2012 3:01:45 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
tycho wrote:
richdad wrote:
According to Kaguthi (Former Nairobi PC and NACADA boss) provincial administration do solve over 75% of disputes in Kenya.

Does it mean that Kenyan will have to travel miles to get burial certs and report petty disputes like land boundaries. We should accept that our society is not that enlightened and the bureaucracy of courts plus corrupt lawyers would make most people shy away from them. Kenyan court process is also too expensive for a commom mwananchi.

The county gvt will be run by politicians who might at times not be at par with the Nairobi government. Disputes will also be biased on where they get support.




The 'installation' of the chief was a resultant of political forces at a certain time. But now we should not simply say whether chiefs should go or not, but we should also interrogate the political context and the roles needed to be played by government at the smallest administrative unit.

One may argue that we are not an advanced country, but he will not be aiding his argument, for the facts of history are showing otherwise. We certainly have more educated citizens than we had in 1963. And besides, we do not need even a half of the citizenry to be 'enlightened' to create enlightened systems.

What kinds of conflict are we going to experience in the villages? Are villages the same as estates? Besides is an urban slum equal to a village?

What kind of leadership is the chief providing? Is it 'pro-people' or is it pro-government? For example, most leaders look at insecurity as a problem brought about by the youth. Is such a view acceptable?

I am finding it very difficult to call for the retention of chiefs. It is expected that if chiefs will protest about these changes but it is up to the leadership of the day to 'manage' this matter.

But look now, if we are so afraid of changing the village, can we change the state?


long on words, short on content. it would have been good if you tychho suggested on the replacement for chiefs. how will the roles of chiefs be carried out, and by who? a whole back, a DC had 2 roles. 1. supervise dvt. 2. security.
county govts have taken over dvt. so, who has taken over security? we will still have county commisioners or whatever name, n his men...tupende tusipende.
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
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