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Degree vs Diploma debate
kichwa_kibov
#1 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2012 1:22:31 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 9/24/2012
Posts: 20
Location: Tatu city
Is it just me or i find this really surprising? Apparently getting a diploma is more beneficial in terms of getting a job than a degree

www.nation.co.ke/News/Gr.../-/13wgq2vz/-/index.html
The smart man learns the truth and screams it at others to try to change their mind to his own lifestyle’s detriment. The wise man learns the truth and applies it to his life. Others learn the truth from watching him.
Lolest!
#2 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2012 2:33:25 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Thanks @kichwakibovu for the link. Interesting read. You mean Collymore hana degree?
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
PuthyKrasha
#3 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2012 3:25:01 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/8/2010
Posts: 163
Location: PyongYang
The Kenya i know. all that matters is whom u know, weather u have a cert, Dip , Degree , Masters or watever! most jobs are advertised as a mare formality ..Kazi iko na mwenyewe waiting in the wingz.
If i showed you where i live, you would think that i was hiding.
Euge
#4 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2012 7:31:35 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/4/2008
Posts: 2,849
Location: Rupi
PuthyKrasha wrote:
The Kenya i know. all that matters is whom u know, weather u have a cert, Dip , Degree , Masters or watever! most jobs are advertised as a mare formality ..Kazi iko na mwenyewe waiting in the wingz.


NOT true.
Lord, thank you!
PuthyKrasha
#5 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2012 8:11:35 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/8/2010
Posts: 163
Location: PyongYang
Euge wrote:
PuthyKrasha wrote:
The Kenya i know. all that matters is whom u know, weather u have a cert, Dip , Degree , Masters or watever! most jobs are advertised as a mare formality ..Kazi iko na mwenyewe waiting in the wingz.


NOT true.

I talk from experience, I am a self made man. i hd to hustle hard to get where I am.. after college, three of my very good friends landed jobs.. that they already knew they were theirs for the taking even before the jobs got advertised in the dailys. and they had leakage on what the interview questions were, plus the practical exam part of the interview... U Believe what you want my Friend.. the Kenya we have is riddled with Nepotism and Tribalism.
If i showed you where i live, you would think that i was hiding.
Euge
#6 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2012 8:22:10 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/4/2008
Posts: 2,849
Location: Rupi
PuthyKrasha wrote:
Euge wrote:
PuthyKrasha wrote:
The Kenya i know. all that matters is whom u know, weather u have a cert, Dip , Degree , Masters or watever! most jobs are advertised as a mare formality ..Kazi iko na mwenyewe waiting in the wingz.


NOT true.

I talk from experience, I am a self made man. i hd to hustle hard to get where I am.. after college, three of my very good friends landed jobs.. that they already knew they were theirs for the taking even before the jobs got advertised in the dailys. and they had leakage on what the interview questions were, plus the practical exam part of the interview... U Believe what you want my Friend.. the Kenya we have is riddled with Nepotism and Tribalism.


@ Puthy, I have a problem with your use of the word most. That is not necessarily true. There are lots of clean jobs out there.
Lord, thank you!
jamplu
#7 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2012 8:40:04 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/25/2010
Posts: 939
Location: Nai
PuthyKrasha wrote:
The Kenya i know. all that matters is whom u know, weather u have a cert, Dip , Degree , Masters or watever! most jobs are advertised as a mare formality ..Kazi iko na mwenyewe waiting in the wingz.


Yea you right!!
There are two key things that will land you a job.
One is network...yea who you know or who who you know knows!- makes sense?
Two your skills...if you have no network someone to vouch for you then you better have the skills bro and i mean mad skills!




mawinder
#8 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2012 8:44:55 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/30/2008
Posts: 6,029
Puthy,back up your statements with statistics or cite an authority.btw,if collymore does not have a degree that is shocking and an insult to education.
kichwa_kibov
#9 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2012 10:15:40 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 9/24/2012
Posts: 20
Location: Tatu city
the fact that collymore has no degree is actually very shocking. so i guess qualifications are not that important in securing a top notch job in kenya
The smart man learns the truth and screams it at others to try to change their mind to his own lifestyle’s detriment. The wise man learns the truth and applies it to his life. Others learn the truth from watching him.
quicksand
#10 Posted : Monday, October 22, 2012 2:13:36 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/5/2010
Posts: 2,061
Location: Nairobi
Having intellect and ability is the more important thing ...and that can be acquired in more ways than just formal education.However, some things you cannot accomplish without a certain level of education esp technical fields...like most engineering jobs or medicine.
Finally, many jobs are simple or manual enough not to require degrees, just formal job specific training, something manageable by diploma holders ...degree holders are jumpy people ...they have a high turnover rate. That is beginning to annoy recruiters.
mozenrat
#11 Posted : Monday, October 22, 2012 11:26:19 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/18/2008
Posts: 796
I have a degree and can confidently say that it has added absolutely no value to the work I do for my employer.. I wish I had not wasted those four years of my life... If I had spent the same time studying the IT field on my own, I would be so far... and none of the companies that have employed me have ever bothered to look at my papers..
accelriskconsult
#12 Posted : Monday, October 22, 2012 12:16:30 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/2/2011
Posts: 629
Location: Nai
The diploma/degree debate IMO is always started by ignorant types for 3 simple reasons;

1. A degree is not meant to make you employable. It is meant to open up your mind to different possibilities. It is just proof that you can learn and that is why the graduation speech includes giving graduates the power to read.

2. Diplomas are meant to be technical and include practical application of skills learnt. Diplomas have driven industrial growth in countries such as Germany. That is why wise employers insist on CPA, ACCA, Dip in Law etc. Those provide technical skills.

3. An effective education system includes a pyramid of skills with certificates and diplomas forming the base, fewer graduates at the middle of the pyramid and even fewer PHDs and capital owners at the top. That system ensures that skills can be applied. In the pyramid, graduates bridge the gap between actual 'can do' skills and research (PHDs). They also help in mobilising capital to meet skills. They help diploma holders by introducing their skills to the elites who would otherwise thump their noses at them.

Kenya had the skill pyramid right when it had many technical schools and a few universities. As the universities started taking over the technical institutes, the pyramid started bulging at the middle hence the perennial complaints. As recruiting goes, not all jobs require a degree and in cases where a degree is required, the selection process should be done well enough to identify a candidate's other attributes such as industry and ambition.

For all that think degrees are useless, let ye know that there is a place in life for abstract reasoning, espousing ideology and thinking for the sake of thinking and entertaining ideas that have not been proven to work. The world is richer when idle curiosity is turned into practical skills. Do you think that Michael Joseph would have turned Safaricom into the company it is today without a good combination of degree and diploma holders? Do you think NIC Bank would be what it is today of the CEO ignored the need for employing quality graduates? Ditto Chase Bank and I &M?
sitaki.kujulikana
#13 Posted : Monday, October 22, 2012 12:47:50 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/25/2012
Posts: 1,826
accelriskconsult wrote:
The diploma/degree debate IMO is always started by ignorant types for 3 simple reasons;

1. A degree is not meant to make you employable, it is meant to open up your mind to different possibilities. It is just proof that you can learn and that is why the graduation speech includes giving graduates the power to read.

2. Diplomas are meant to be technicaland include practical application of skills learnt. Diplomas have driven industrial growth in countries such as Germany.


I think you forgot one simple reason.

A degree is supposed to make you employable, that's why some employers quote a specific degree when looking for employees e.g a degree in law, or agriculture or medicine or nursing or finance ...
industrial growth in Germany is mostly driven by the high quality engineering work drivwen mostly by the engineering Diplom holders which is a little bit different to a bachelors degree holder in kenya, since in some instances it merges undergraduate and post graduate studies.
accelriskconsult
#14 Posted : Monday, October 22, 2012 1:11:53 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/2/2011
Posts: 629
Location: Nai
sitaki.kujulikana wrote:
accelriskconsult wrote:
The diploma/degree debate IMO is always started by ignorant types for 3 simple reasons;

1. A degree is not meant to make you employable, it is meant to open up your mind to different possibilities. It is just proof that you can learn and that is why the graduation speech includes giving graduates the power to read.

2. Diplomas are meant to be technicaland include practical application of skills learnt. Diplomas have driven industrial growth in countries such as Germany.


I think you forgot one simple reason.

A degree is supposed to make you employable, that's why some employers quote a specific degree when looking for employees e.g a degree in law, or agriculture or medicine or nursing or finance ...
industrial growth in Germany is mostly driven by the high quality engineering work drivwen mostly by the engineering Diplom holders which is a little bit different to a bachelors degree holder in kenya, since in some instances it merges undergraduate and post graduate studies.


Sitaki, see link http://www.careers.manch...nts/employable/skills/.

Graduates get employed for skills like numeracy, critical thinking, adaptability, spatial and abstract reasoning etc, logic, . Not just the fact that you have a degree.
Rahatupu
#15 Posted : Monday, October 22, 2012 4:06:46 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 1,982
Location: matano manne
accelriskconsult wrote:
sitaki.kujulikana wrote:
accelriskconsult wrote:
The diploma/degree debate IMO is always started by ignorant types for 3 simple reasons;

1. A degree is not meant to make you employable, it is meant to open up your mind to different possibilities. It is just proof that you can learn and that is why the graduation speech includes giving graduates the power to read.

2. Diplomas are meant to be technicaland include practical application of skills learnt. Diplomas have driven industrial growth in countries such as Germany.


I think you forgot one simple reason.

A degree is supposed to make you employable, that's why some employers quote a specific degree when looking for employees e.g a degree in law, or agriculture or medicine or nursing or finance ...
industrial growth in Germany is mostly driven by the high quality engineering work drivwen mostly by the engineering Diplom holders which is a little bit different to a bachelors degree holder in kenya, since in some instances it merges undergraduate and post graduate studies.


Sitaki, see link http://www.careers.manch...nts/employable/skills/.

Graduates get employed for skills like numeracy, critical thinking, adaptability, spatial and abstract reasoning etc, logic, . Not just the fact that you have a degree.


DITTO
madhaquer
#16 Posted : Monday, October 22, 2012 4:22:39 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/10/2010
Posts: 281
Location: Nairobi
Have you ever run a business ?
Have you ever had to hire someone to perform a task ?
Have you led a department in your organisation ?

If you have, then you know that beyond a specific point, the level of education doesn't matter. Unfortunately our Kenyan graduates think they are entitled to a job of their choice.
Those who are adaptable even take on jobs outside their discipline and bring in their thinking and problem solving skills and they do just fine.
Private companies especially efficient profit making ones and startups, pay people who can deliver results. If you can't it doesn't matter if you have a phd, they cant use it.

In the civil service and other parastatals, it is not the case. Look at the board of directors in any parastatal and you will see they are political appointments, compare that with the board of an NSE listed company.
Injere
#17 Posted : Monday, October 22, 2012 9:19:46 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/7/2010
Posts: 130
This article is hog wash! Tell me which economy in the so called dvpd world ever got where they are today without quality manpower? Look at China ....minting millions of graduates a year locally not to mention many others in US Campos..look at India, Singapore...

Our journalism quaility is wanting. Just because two people say the samething does not make it true!
kenmac
#18 Posted : Thursday, October 25, 2012 12:43:13 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 1,793
Injere wrote:
This article is hog wash! Tell me which economy in the so called dvpd world ever got where they are today without quality manpower? Look at China ....minting millions of graduates a year locally not to mention many others in US Campos..look at India, Singapore...

Our journalism quaility is wanting. Just because two people say the samething does not make it true!



ditto!

sounds more like a fallacy of composition.
......Ecclesiastes
mkonomtupu
#19 Posted : Thursday, October 25, 2012 1:31:34 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/10/2010
Posts: 1,001
Location: River Road
I run a small business where i have to hire graduates and diploma holders. I find diploma holders do a much better job for much less pay, for example the accountant seems to know much better on the nitty gritty of the books of account and i find him more indispensable. I think graduates should offer more of the strategic thinking and policy for a business which in most cases they fail to do even where you delegate responsibilities to them. All in all my business has grown on the back of diploma holders who i find more results oriented.
maka
#20 Posted : Friday, October 26, 2012 12:32:28 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
kichwa_kibov wrote:
the fact that collymore has no degree is actually very shocking. so i guess qualifications are not that important in securing a top notch job in kenya

...why is it shocking??the man haz so much experience that no degree,masters or doctrate can offer...@mozenrat i feel u,u arent walking alone...i find diplomas highly detailed and specialised when compared to degrees e.g a Bcomm holder can work in an invesment bank coz he/she has a wider knowledge of how securities work etc on the other hand a diploma holder in investment operations will do a better job coz the area of specialization is narrowed down to securities only...
possunt quia posse videntur
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