Wazua
»
Investor
»
Economy
»
Double dip recession vs Great Depression
Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
|
mnandii wrote:sparkly wrote:ChessMaster wrote:Sorry about that.I'm not wishing for it.Its just that when there's a global depression world war tends to follow. I think it will be for resources but at the top of the list was for energy...why water? After the third world war, there will be no WORLD. Not when small countries like Pakistan have nuclear weapons, That you can be sure of. A certain mathematician made some calculations about two months back and concluded that there is NOT enough nuclear weapons to destroy the WHOLE world. He's called Kihanya (I forget the other name) @mnandii see the nuclear stock piles in the world here: http://www.ploughshares....uclear-stockpile-report
If there is an inkling of war, most nations will mobilise resources and make nuclear weapons in no time. Countries like South Korea, Japan, Brazil and Japan may not have nuclear weapons now but i belief can mobilise fast. Mr. Kihanya, is an engineer or mathematician so must be talking about physical destruction of the world. I am speaking from a social economic point of view. Life is short. Live passionately.
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
|
Many are the times when I tell myself that ww3 is underway.
Other wise, how do you explain the disagreement in the security council translating to thousands of deaths in Syria going for days on end?
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 2/23/2009 Posts: 1,626
|
The issue with Syria and Iran is very sensitive.Some months back a Chinese general and also a Russian general said they world declare world war 3 if Iran is attacked by US and/or Israel. When I get the links I'll post them. People who want to wage wars should be at the forefront not calling shots from behind that way they will leave the people who want to leave peacefully behind. Uncertainty is certain.Let go
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 2/23/2009 Posts: 1,626
|
[url http://www.eutimes.net/2...-world-war-3-over-iran/]Chinese general threatens world war 3[/url] [url http://rt.com/politics/s...-iran-nato-rogozin-749/]Any conflict on Iran is a direct threat to Russia[/url] [url http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaaeET1jSyQ]Russia warns attack on war[/url] Uncertainty is certain.Let go
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 2/23/2009 Posts: 1,626
|
[url http://www.eutimes.net/2...-world-war-3-over-iran/]Chinese general threatens world war 3[/url] [url http://rt.com/politics/s...-iran-nato-rogozin-749/]Any conflict on Iran is a direct threat to Russia[/url] [url http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaaeET1jSyQ]Russia warns attack on war[/url] Uncertainty is certain.Let go
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 2/23/2009 Posts: 1,626
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 1,793
|
this is alarmist and would best be referred as post hoc, ergo prompter hoc. Just because a world war followed the great depression does not become a credible base to argue that every depression will always be followed by a world war.
|
|
Rank: Chief Joined: 1/13/2011 Posts: 5,964
|
Stagflation. Case study: 2000-2009 Zimbabwe.
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 1,793
|
Cde Monomotapa wrote:Stagflation. Case study: 2000-2009 Zimbabwe. stagflation: a case of high unemployment rates and high inflation rates as was the case with Zimbabwe. Are kenyan youth actively seeking employment opportunities? Yes, but most of them do not have skills to offer. That is why they are so easily recruited by alshabab, Mungiki and MRC infidels. Do we risk running high inflation rates like zimbabwe? No. We have adequate monetary and fiscal policies to take care of inflation. The problem is finding an optimal rate of inflation that will not hurt the economy while not contracting our total output. Interestingly, the media has misled the public to belief that inflation is bad for the economy. While this perception is not entirely untrue, it is incomplete. Unemployment rate and inflation rate share an inverse relationship. Therefore, reducing inflation to very low rates is likely to result in increased cyclical unemployment as workers are laid off by their employers due to decreased returns. The challenge we face is understanding our sources of inflation and responding decisively. For example, if the inflation is caused by increased demand of good and services, aggregate supply will have to be increased which would result in reduced unemployment.
|
|
Rank: Chief Joined: 1/13/2011 Posts: 5,964
|
kenmac wrote:Cde Monomotapa wrote:Stagflation. Case study: 2000-2009 Zimbabwe. stagflation: a case of high unemployment rates and high inflation rates as was the case with Zimbabwe. Are kenyan youth actively seeking employment opportunities? Yes, but most of them do not have skills to offer. That is why they are so easily recruited by alshabab, Mungiki and MRC infidels. Do we risk running high inflation rates like zimbabwe? No. We have adequate monetary and fiscal policies to take care of inflation. The problem is finding an optimal rate of inflation that will not hurt the economy while not contracting our total output. Interestingly, the media has misled the public to belief that inflation is bad for the economy. While this perception is not entirely untrue, it is incomplete. Unemployment rate and inflation rate share an inverse relationship. Therefore, reducing inflation to very low rates is likely to result in increased cyclical unemployment as workers are laid off by their employers due to decreased returns. The challenge we face is understanding our sources of inflation and responding decisively. For example, if the inflation is caused by increased demand of good and services, aggregate supply will have to be increased which would result in reduced unemployment. We are discussing the US/European economies mind you. Stagflation + dis-industrialization.
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 2/23/2009 Posts: 1,626
|
@kenmac - It's not alarmist. Its a simple concept that has withstood the test of time. If there is no money in the streets then blood will flow in the streets. This has been the case in the better part of recorded history. Look at Libya, Egypt and the middle east. You have a the majority of the population occupied by youth who are unemployed. What happened? If the youth don't acquire skills and start adding value to the world economy you will have a lot of young,idle and annoyed people. Apart from that there is also the case with resources. We live in a world with finite resources,what happens when resources start running out(like oil)?We all know the current way of living is unsustainable. There is a reason the green movement has picked up pace the past few years. Unemployment rates and inflation do generally have an inverse relationship but based on many factors. Depending on the point on the cycle or the theoretical approach to policy making to an economy that relationship can change. Kenya for example,for the past few years the inflation rate has been high and the unemployment rate with it. There are also other factors at play. As CDE said,we are discussing a global phenomena based on the US/European economies mixed with geopolitical factors that will possibly determine the fate of the world economy in the next few years. It was not based on Kenya,sorry if the post was misleading. The world event are affecting our inflation rates in a major way. Consider the high cost of capital,decreased supply of foreign exchange and high energy prices(factors lending again to the US/EU and geopolitical events) are affecting Kenya. Uncertainty is certain.Let go
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 1,793
|
@chessmaster, I differ on the issue of youth unemployment in Libya and Egypt being the major drivers of the uprisings. During the period, Egypt had an unemployment rate of about 9.3% while Libya had an unemployment rate of 28%. In Kenya, where we have an unemployment rate of 40%, reducing our unemployment levels to match those of Egypt would be a major achievement. Let's agree that unemployment was not the issue. On the issue of resources, the US is sitting on huge oil reserves (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves_in_the_United_States). on that wikipedia article note this point ' The United States has the largest known deposits of oil shale in the world, according to the Bureau of Land Management and holds an estimated 2.175 trillion barrels (345.8 km3) of potentially recoverable oil." Essentially, it looks like the US wants to deplete everyone's oil before they start refining their own. The inflation rate in Kenya has averaged around 12% for the last 6 years with a high of 31.5 Percent in May of 2008 and a record low of 3.2 Percent in October of 2010. During the period, unemployment has averaged at about 22 percent with a high of 40.0 Percent in December of 2011 and a record low of 12.7 Percent in December of 2006. I don't have the graphs for unemployment and inflation, but am sure they would be interesting to compare their correlation. Lastly, I don't expect a worse economic period than what we underwent in 2008.We we experiencing high food and oil prices, a persistent drought, post election chaos and the shocks of global financial crisis. The fact that we pulled through even with against these odds is comforting. For the first time, our Tourism revenue plummeted at the worst rates in history, capital inflows declined due to the financial crisis and our agricultural exports were lackluster. So with Europe crisis or not, am remaining very positive if next year elections go smoothly.
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 2/23/2009 Posts: 1,626
|
@kenmac - Egypt has an employment to population ratio of 43%,Libya 49% and Kenya 73%. Rural population is 54% of population in Egypt. Working age population is 63% of population in Egypt with approximately 70% of the population working in the industrial and agricultural sectors. Women are 49.7% of the population but only 22% of them are working. You have to consider how unemployment rate is calculated and what it can actually tell you. Couldn't find other figures on Libya but I recommend downloading the world development indicators by the world bank. Do we have enough oil for out future needsFrom the link they say approximately 25 years of oil.Not so inspiring considering our economies are illogical centered around oil(a non-renewable resource).Then we have the peak oil problem. From the link you posted the US only has 218.9 barrels of oil excluding shale and tar sands which technically are not oil and certainly not as energy dense as oil. They are unconventionally and in my opinion and so many others its because we have no more choices. Another factor to consider is the EROI(energy return on investment) which over the years has been going down.In the past it was close to 100:1 now its around 10:1. This basically means in the past for one barrel of oil used you would get a return of 100 but as with all other resources,the more you mine and drill the harder it get to attain quantity and quality. About inflation and unemployment rate relationship google it. The IMF has even done a paper on it in the US. Link for charts Unemployment rate was at an all time high last year December and inflation rate was also rising last year. Check the charts and tell me what you think.Sorry for the long post. Uncertainty is certain.Let go
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 1,793
|
@Chessmaster, we need the long posts to learn from one another. First, you are definitely right about the oil resources. They will get depleted at some point. However, we are making progress in seeking for more sustainable and more ecofriendly sources of energy. Think of electric trains, electric cars, geothermal etc. So when we run out of oil, the necessity of new energy sources will drive humankind to new inventions. About unemployment, we can't say that because only 43% of egyptians are employed, then 57% of them are unemployed. WHY?, Because we have retirees and people below the age of 15 years within that 47%. Instead, we regard unemployment interms of those who are willing and able to work, and are actively seeking for employment opportunities without success. see a table of Egypt unemployment rates on this link and this other linkcompare the egypt figure with Kenyan figure from charts in this linkand this one tooIn regards to inflation , I would say we need to check our optimal inflation. What happened is we had low interest rates, people borrowed to invest. We had unprecedented demand in the real estate and construction was taking place all over. This means extra people were getting jobs in the construction sector. Everyone had more money to spend, and we were demanding more imports. So I think our inflation was driven by demand and an increase in money supply. When the central bank responded, it raised the interest rates, and people were demotivated from borrowing. Certainly, our construction sector and real estate have slowed down due to the interest rates. It is logical therefore that some jobs have been lost and our inflation is cooling down. Will we be better off when inflation goes below 5%? I don't think so. We need a balance between unemployment and inflation. Cheers.
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 2/23/2009 Posts: 1,626
|
Thanks for the links. I give up on the statistics part can be quite frustrating trying to get stats for Africa nations. Though I believe we have come to some form of agreement.You are right about inflation in Kenya. I hope you see what I meant by age of value and skills. As you clearly put it necessity drives human invention. We need people who can utilize the resources we have and use them more effectively than other generations before them.I really wonder how the coming Kenyan government will help tackle that problem. About alternative sources of energy,the problem is that they can't sustain us at our current technology levels. One of the draw backs of electric vehicles and trains is that they will still depend on fossil fuels(oil and coal) to generate electricity.They are eying helium 3 as the alternative energy source using nuclear fusion. Its is safe and clean but its scarce on earth but plentiful on the moon. The last I check prices have reached highs of 2000 per litre or 1 billion per tonne. Uncertainty is certain.Let go
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 2/23/2009 Posts: 1,626
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 2/23/2009 Posts: 1,626
|
What are your views on the state of the world economy now? Uncertainty is certain.Let go
|
|
Rank: Chief Joined: 8/4/2010 Posts: 8,977
|
ChessMaster wrote:What are your views on the state of the world economy now? US hanging in there & staring a fiscal cliff which can turn ugly if not handled well.
Eurozone is in recession and still a house in confused state about solutions. Just politicking
Asia - experiencing slowdown as europe's recession bites.
Africa - econ expanding, but with the above 3 regions slowing down, well a slowdown is coming.
Since Africa is a tiny global econ participant, the global econ is thus in a slowdown & facing a prolonged slump into 2013. This is why the US Fed bank & ECB have decided to extend low funding rates with euro & USD floodgates now open with no closure date!
If this euro & USD tsunami flood fails to boost global econ, it hard to tell what next, but by then financial markets will be in a selling mood.$15/barrel oil... The commodities lehman moment arrives as well as Sovereign debt volcano!
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 2/23/2009 Posts: 1,626
|
I know they want to make Africa a major player in the global economy because thats one of the few options they have to save the world economy.I don't understand the Fed and ECB. If debt is the problem how will adding more debt help? Uncertainty is certain.Let go
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 1/21/2010 Posts: 6,675 Location: Nairobi
|
hisah wrote:Africa - econ expanding, but with the above 3 regions slowing down, well a slowdown is coming. A slowdown in Africa?? Wouldn't we have already began seeing it since the great recession began in 2008?? Mark 12:29 Deuteronomy 4:16
|
|
Wazua
»
Investor
»
Economy
»
Double dip recession vs Great Depression
Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.
|