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#peremende movement
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maka
#31 Posted : Thursday, October 04, 2012 9:20:45 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
sitaki.kujulikana wrote:
maka wrote:
sitaki.kujulikana wrote:
maka wrote:
@jamplu hakuna mtu amekataa i,d b very happy if i,d b able to go to a public hosi,get treated well,with well remunerated docs and nurses who have available to them the best and latest equipment...but should all this be available at the expense of others?


you drive on roads build at the expense of others

...how??


most roads are build with tax payers money. since the cash is limited, a choice is made which roads to build or not - some people just have to do without the same.

...i was taking in terms of life...nobody is talking about roads here.
possunt quia posse videntur
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Dia
#32 Posted : Thursday, October 04, 2012 9:25:57 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 3/30/2010
Posts: 176
@ Alma,
I am blaming the middle class for doing nothing about the pathetic state of our public health institutions and condemning the doctors who are doing something about it

People were dying before the strike coz of issues raised by the doctors and all those condemning the doctors cared jack. Why the concern now?

The strike is not about the health profession but about medical supplies, facilities and staffing which happens to be Nyong'o's JD.

At least we are in agreement that there is a problem with our public health institutions. The strike is not about Nyong’o the person but about the minister of Medical services who just happens to be Nyong’o at present! If it was Kimunya in that seat and the same lousy performance, the strike would still be on.

There is nothing as precious as life to a human being. The people keeping others alive (and I include nurses and policemen here) are even more important than state-of-the-art chambers for MPs. If the govt can pay for the latter, surely it can pay for the former
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alma
#33 Posted : Thursday, October 04, 2012 9:42:28 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
@Dia you will be very surprised to know that I actually support you in your endeavour to change the health system in this country.

But I don't believe in crocodile pain for the masses excuses. If you as doctors really cared about the masses can you please kindly explain the following

http://suztoure.blogspot...eep-off-nairobi_05.html

Of course you won't. Protecting lousy doctors is stock in trade of your profession for a long time. No wonder we don't believe you are doing this to "help the poor Kenyan".

I know its for the money until you guys explain yourselves better.

Having said that, the health system is pathetic. But I'm a believer in wholesome change not least of which is the attitude of doctor in Kenya.

Going on strike and leaving the poor you are pretending to be caring about to their own device doesn't make you any different from the ministry you are trying to bulldoze into increasing your salaries.

You are part of the change we need in these hospitals. In this case, you have lost all moral authority.

In your strike, have you bothered to find out how many of your patients have died since you went on strike or are you exactly like Anyang Nyongo who said that he's not a mortuary attendant?

Going on twitter and spamming all the journalists with your stories doesn't make you any better than Nyongo.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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sitaki.kujulikana
#34 Posted : Thursday, October 04, 2012 9:44:33 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 8/25/2012
Posts: 1,826
maka wrote:
sitaki.kujulikana wrote:
maka wrote:
sitaki.kujulikana wrote:
maka wrote:
@jamplu hakuna mtu amekataa i,d b very happy if i,d b able to go to a public hosi,get treated well,with well remunerated docs and nurses who have available to them the best and latest equipment...but should all this be available at the expense of others?


you drive on roads build at the expense of others

...how??


most roads are build with tax payers money. since the cash is limited, a choice is made which roads to build or not - some people just have to do without the same.

...i was taking in terms of life...nobody is talking about roads here.


people die on roads
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YesuWangu
#35 Posted : Thursday, October 04, 2012 9:55:49 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 8/11/2010
Posts: 1,588
alma wrote:
@Dia lets keep this from becoming personal. You have no idea if I go to pumwani or not.

After blaming Anyang, now you want to blame the middle class.

Listen guys, as long as people are dying in those hospitals as you are marching in the streets, then some of us will not listen to you.

You are supposed to be doctors. Not makanga strikers. If you can't even respect your profession, no wonder Anyang is treating you like brukenge.

I imagine the day when pastors go on strike coz God hasn't been talking to them lately.

Anyang Nyongo is not the cause of the problem of the health profession in this country.

Hospitals, insurance firms, doctors and gov't policy are the problem. So if he left today, would you get those gloves you keep on yapping about?

The health industry in Kenya is in dire straits. It requires the effort of all in this country and cannot be solved by us paying unqualified trainees 200k a month so they can take their girlfriends out.

So this strike has nothing to do with the health profession. Just a bunch of doctors who want to eat before the health industry totally crumbles.


The problem is in the system, not the individual. In this fiasco has kemsa been forgotten and is 'innocent'.

Look at this long list of qualified persons in the kemsa team responsible for not providing supplies that have made the medics go on strike:

Dr. John M. Munyu, MBS
Chief Executive Officer

Mr. Fred Wanyonyi
Director of Legal Services / Corporation Secretary

Mr. John Kabuchi
Procurement Manager

Mr. Joshua H. Obell
Operations Director

Mr. Ignatius Kaburu
Distribution Manager

Mr. Charles Juma Ezekiel
Procurement Director

Dr. Shamim Kuppuswamy
Ag. Customer Services Manager

Mr. Samuel Okanda
Warehousing Manager

Mr. Dominic Kabiru
Public Relations & Communications Manager

Mr. Samuel Wataku
Information & Communication Technology (ICT) Manager

Mr. Enos Namasaka
Human Resources & Administration Manager

Mr. John Mwangi
Finance Manager

Ms. Agnetta Mufutu
Human Resources & Administration Officer

Dr. John Aduda
Quality Assurance Manager


Mr. David Muttu
Procurement Manager (Donor Funded Programmes)

Ms. Caroline Gichinga
Ag.Procurement Manager (Contract & Equipment)

Mr. Kiumbura Githinji
Business Development Advisor( USAID )

Dr David Mbogori (Phd)
MIS Advisor (USAID)


Are the Drs. in this list also on strike? Are they also protesting poor working conditions?

But we a union full of energetic leaders who are afraid of confronting Dr. John Munyu as the CEO of Kemsa and they met their match in the minister.

Its hard to feel sorry for both.

Yet it is now the innocent people that pay the price when these 2 have a meaningless fight.
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alma
#36 Posted : Thursday, October 04, 2012 10:04:02 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
Kudos @YesuWangu

Let's get to the issues.

They've gone all gang ho on twitter thinking that we are stupid and have never dealt with "Kenyan doctors" before.

The problem is the whole medical system that we know needs change.

But right now, all they want is their pay increased.

I'm willing to bet and put my reputation on the line right here on Wazua.

If these doctors get a pay rise as they are demanding, they will not, and I repeat this,

they will not demand gloves be in the hospitals.

They will go back to work on Monday and pretend that nothing has happened.

They will not investigate malpractices amongst themselves.

They will not demand screened blood before they use it on a patient

They will not demand better facilities at KNH

They will not reduce the cost of medical care to the poor.

They will not be on time on their next surgery

They will not change a single IOTA.

All that will change is that they will get higher pay.

So let us be honest with ourselves. Its for the money the rest is politics.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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poundfoolish
#37 Posted : Thursday, October 04, 2012 10:50:43 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/2/2009
Posts: 2,458
Location: Nairobi
Lolest! wrote:
Thank God police officers cant go on strike. They too have low pay and poor working conditions/lack of facilities! Just imagine if they were to strike!


LOL!!! and we all know how they compensate for the inadequacies.. both personal and institutional...
Is our police force doing better?
Last i checked, it was the most adamant to reform.. even threatening potential 'outsiders' who would have started some good reform in the mess that is our police force
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kamundu
#38 Posted : Thursday, October 04, 2012 10:58:28 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 5/9/2011
Posts: 786
Location: Mashinani
Sorting out this mess was easy. Just absorb the registrars into GOK then BOND them
Peace in our Homeland.
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Elder
#39 Posted : Thursday, October 04, 2012 11:23:28 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/7/2010
Posts: 2,148
Location: elderville
Dia wrote:
@ Alma,
I am blaming the middle class for doing nothing about the pathetic state of our public health institutions and condemning the doctors who are doing something about it. The something the doctors are doing is unfortunately leading to the deaths of Kenyans - not Anyang' Nyongo and the middle class that you blame.

People were dying before the strike coz of issues raised by the doctors and all those condemning the doctors cared jack. Why the concern now? How dare we be concerned about the extra people who will die as a direct result of your strike when all it will do is just add on the tally of those dead? In your comment you seem to be saying that it is okay to cause the death of an extra few to get your demands met.

The strike is not about the health profession but about medical supplies, facilities and staffing which happens to be Nyong'o's JD.

At least we are in agreement that there is a problem with our public health institutions. The strike is not about Nyong’o the person but about the minister of Medical services who just happens to be Nyong’o at present! If it was Kimunya in that seat and the same lousy performance, the strike would still be on.

There is nothing as precious as life to a human being. The people keeping others alive (and I include nurses and policemen here) are even more important than state-of-the-art chambers for MPs. If the govt can pay for the latter, surely it can pay for the former. Of course you are very right. But you don't show evidence of holding life precious if you are okay with allowing Kenyans to die so as to push your agenda. In my book both you and the government are responsible for the deaths resulting from the strike.

He who can express in words the ardour of his love, has but little love to express. - Petrach, Son. (That men by various ways arrive at the same end. - Montaigne, The Essays of.)
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alma
#40 Posted : Thursday, October 04, 2012 1:25:14 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
After seeing my posts here, a doc friend called me for lunch.

He gave me a very long lecture.

I've changed my mind. Let the docs go on strike. In fact, I will picket for them.

I only have one condition. Let it be possible for a commoner like me to sue a doctor. On that I'm not budging.

Tukale peremende.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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bwenyenye
#41 Posted : Thursday, October 04, 2012 1:46:35 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 5/24/2007
Posts: 1,805
alma wrote:
Kudos @YesuWangu

Let's get to the issues.

They've gone all gang ho on twitter thinking that we are stupid and have never dealt with "Kenyan doctors" before.

The problem is the whole medical system that we know needs change.

But right now, all they want is their pay increased.

I'm willing to bet and put my reputation on the line right here on Wazua.

If these doctors get a pay rise as they are demanding, they will not, and I repeat this,

they will not demand gloves be in the hospitals.

They will go back to work on Monday and pretend that nothing has happened.

They will not investigate malpractices amongst themselves.

They will not demand screened blood before they use it on a patient

They will not demand better facilities at KNH

They will not reduce the cost of medical care to the poor.

They will not be on time on their next surgery

They will not change a single IOTA.

All that will change is that they will get higher pay.

So let us be honest with ourselves. Its for the money the rest is politics.


@Alma.. so what issues above changed after your lunch???? You think they would not report back to work on Monday if they got the hike today?????Liar Liar Liar Liar Liar Liar Liar Liar I could bet you a probox....
I Think Therefore I Am
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  | | Edit by user: Thursday, October 04, 2012 1:47 PM | Reason: Not specified
MKWASI
#42 Posted : Thursday, October 04, 2012 1:58:04 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 4/20/2012
Posts: 888
alma wrote:
After seeing my posts here, a doc friend called me for lunch.

He gave me a very long lecture.

I've changed my mind. Let the docs go on strike. In fact, I will picket for them.

I only have one condition. Let it be possible for a commoner like me to sue a doctor. On that I'm not budging.

Tukale peremende.


If I were the doc I would also have carried a cane. Just in case I needed it during my long lecturesmile smile smile
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jamplu
#43 Posted : Thursday, October 04, 2012 2:06:29 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 3/25/2010
Posts: 939
Location: Nai
alma wrote:
After seeing my posts here, a doc friend called me for lunch.

He gave me a very long lecture.

I've changed my mind. Let the docs go on strike. In fact, I will picket for them.

I only have one condition. Let it be possible for a commoner like me to sue a doctor. On that I'm not budging.

Tukale peremende.



Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly What changed?
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jaggernaut
#44 Posted : Thursday, October 04, 2012 2:17:45 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/9/2008
Posts: 5,389
kamundu wrote:
Sorting out this mess was easy. Just absorb the registrars into GOK then BOND them


I think am getting confused here. Wasn't the strike originally supposed to be in solidarity with the privately sponsored Registrars who wanted some 92k pm from GoK? And now it has morphed to higher pay for all doctors?
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poundfoolish
#45 Posted : Thursday, October 04, 2012 2:19:14 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/2/2009
Posts: 2,458
Location: Nairobi
jamplu wrote:
alma wrote:
After seeing my posts here, a doc friend called me for lunch.

He gave me a very long lecture.

I've changed my mind. Let the docs go on strike. In fact, I will picket for them.

I only have one condition. Let it be possible for a commoner like me to sue a doctor. On that I'm not budging.

Tukale peremende.



Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly What changed?



Yes, tell us... What changed?
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