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"I Will Not Apologize" -- Caroline Mutoko Responds to Plagiarism Claims
Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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this is not school work!! in school work (depending on culture) one has to show the following - capacity to be creative - capacity to store information in your head As a journalist - none of the above is a requirement! it sickens me to place this on the same scale as classwork - its not! All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/25/2009 Posts: 973
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masukuma wrote:this is not school work!! in school work (depending on culture) one has to show the following
- capacity to be creative
- capacity to store information in your head
As a journalist - none of the above is a requirement! it sickens me to place this on the same scale as classwork - its not! Ditto! I also fail to see the correlation between the two.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/19/2008 Posts: 4,268
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MKWASI wrote:mukiha wrote:A write never copies anything without acknowledging the source... and checking for copyright restrictions before using a large part of it...
A serious writer, doesn't even copy himself/herself without acknowledging that he/she had published the same words at a different time or publications.
This is the reason why you will see the likes of Sunny Bindra writing something like: "In 1997, I wrote in the East African that 'A man like Mwai Kibaki can change the way Kenyans view the concept of developmental...'" He is quoting himself and he tells the reader that this is not the first time he is using those words.
So the question really is: is Mutoko serious about her writing? @Mukiha...Writing is a different art altogether. Portraying your ignorance in writing, is just irreversable. I think She should just stick to radio (you can say something today and deny tomorrow borrowing a leaf from our Mpigs). she ain't doing well either on that radio front but it will save her albeit for the time being! This boils down to what people read. If you appreciate good writing, you'll definitely be pissed off with copy and paste because chances are that you've read it elsewhere or even if you've not, you do not want, in future, to quote the wrong source and give credit to the "copy paster".
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/27/2008 Posts: 4,114
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masukuma wrote:this is not school work!! in school work (depending on culture) one has to show the following
- capacity to be creative
- capacity to store information in your head
As a journalist - none of the above is a requirement! it sickens me to place this on the same scale as classwork - its not! School prepares you for the real world. Thus what you learn in school must be applied in the real world. To say that a journalist does not need to be creative and have ability to store information is to completely miss the point! Are you talking about a true journalist or a quack? Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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Wendz wrote:MKWASI wrote:mukiha wrote:A write never copies anything without acknowledging the source... and checking for copyright restrictions before using a large part of it...
A serious writer, doesn't even copy himself/herself without acknowledging that he/she had published the same words at a different time or publications.
This is the reason why you will see the likes of Sunny Bindra writing something like: "In 1997, I wrote in the East African that 'A man like Mwai Kibaki can change the way Kenyans view the concept of developmental...'" He is quoting himself and he tells the reader that this is not the first time he is using those words.
So the question really is: is Mutoko serious about her writing? @Mukiha...Writing is a different art altogether. Portraying your ignorance in writing, is just irreversable. I think She should just stick to radio (you can say something today and deny tomorrow borrowing a leaf from our Mpigs). she ain't doing well either on that radio front but it will save her albeit for the time being! This boils down to what people read. If you appreciate good writing, you'll definitely be pissed off with copy and paste because chances are that you've read it elsewhere or even if you've not, you do not want, in future, to quote the wrong source and give credit to the "copy paster". why? you have read it before - skip it! if she felt that the contents of the material she read somewhere else was exactly what she would have told herself 20 years ago - why change? so that we can comply with external ideals? think about it - when Kibaki insulted people who annoyed him 'Kubaff, Mafi ya Kuku'. Do we have to reference him when we dismiss other people of similar behaviours? As Kibaki says - 'wewe ni Kubaff, Mafi ya kuku' All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/19/2008 Posts: 4,268
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masukuma wrote:Wendz wrote:MKWASI wrote:mukiha wrote:A write never copies anything without acknowledging the source... and checking for copyright restrictions before using a large part of it...
A serious writer, doesn't even copy himself/herself without acknowledging that he/she had published the same words at a different time or publications.
This is the reason why you will see the likes of Sunny Bindra writing something like: "In 1997, I wrote in the East African that 'A man like Mwai Kibaki can change the way Kenyans view the concept of developmental...'" He is quoting himself and he tells the reader that this is not the first time he is using those words.
So the question really is: is Mutoko serious about her writing? @Mukiha...Writing is a different art altogether. Portraying your ignorance in writing, is just irreversable. I think She should just stick to radio (you can say something today and deny tomorrow borrowing a leaf from our Mpigs). she ain't doing well either on that radio front but it will save her albeit for the time being! This boils down to what people read. If you appreciate good writing, you'll definitely be pissed off with copy and paste because chances are that you've read it elsewhere or even if you've not, you do not want, in future, to quote the wrong source and give credit to the "copy paster". why? you have read it before - skip it! if she felt that the contents of the material she read somewhere else was exactly what she would have told herself 20 years ago - why change? so that we can comply with external ideals? think about it - when Kibaki insulted people who annoyed him 'Kubaff, Mafi ya Kuku'. Do we have to reference him when we dismiss other people of similar behaviours? As Kibaki says - 'wewe ni Kubaff, Mafi ya kuku' No one said she needs to change. All we are saying is she needs to ACKNOWLEDGE that it is someone else' work not her original work. That's all. In any case, if you join a profession - like journalism - you have to comply with the "best practices" of such profession..... it's that simple. I believe you've seen books, even academic books, that have references at the back of the book. that's what "references" are meant for - acknowledging other people's work. Kibaki's example would be inappropriate in this context.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/5/2010 Posts: 2,061 Location: Nairobi
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masukuma wrote:Wendz wrote:MKWASI wrote:mukiha wrote:A write never copies anything without acknowledging the source... and checking for copyright restrictions before using a large part of it...
A serious writer, doesn't even copy himself/herself without acknowledging that he/she had published the same words at a different time or publications.
This is the reason why you will see the likes of Sunny Bindra writing something like: "In 1997, I wrote in the East African that 'A man like Mwai Kibaki can change the way Kenyans view the concept of developmental...'" He is quoting himself and he tells the reader that this is not the first time he is using those words.
So the question really is: is Mutoko serious about her writing? @Mukiha...Writing is a different art altogether. Portraying your ignorance in writing, is just irreversable. I think She should just stick to radio (you can say something today and deny tomorrow borrowing a leaf from our Mpigs). she ain't doing well either on that radio front but it will save her albeit for the time being! This boils down to what people read. If you appreciate good writing, you'll definitely be pissed off with copy and paste because chances are that you've read it elsewhere or even if you've not, you do not want, in future, to quote the wrong source and give credit to the "copy paster". why? you have read it before - skip it! if she felt that the contents of the material she read somewhere else was exactly what she would have told herself 20 years ago - why change? so that we can comply with external ideals? think about it - when Kibaki insulted people who annoyed him 'Kubaff, Mafi ya Kuku'. Do we have to reference him when we dismiss other people of similar behaviours? As Kibaki says - 'wewe ni Kubaff, Mafi ya kuku' @Masukuma ..yours is a simplistic rationalization and its totally wrong. There are professional writing ethics and all journalists should follow them. Heck, there are copyright laws to protect against it. If you copied an academic paper and got caught you would fail. A Romanian PM or Minister had to resign just because of such a transgression. Plagiarism is the equivalent of finding a squatter has allocated him/herself a part of (or all of) your house as his/her living quarters after you sweat blood and tears to construct it. In the absence of a credit and reference, it is pissing on the person who sat and thought long and hard to come up with an original piece. How do you not get it?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/7/2010 Posts: 2,148 Location: elderville
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alma wrote:@Elder, what I have said is exactly what is done. Go look at all the big and small media houses around the world. In fact the best in this business can quote the whole story and even the headings as long as they leave the link.
Quote, then provide a link.
Lawyers can always come back later to argue as they usually do. Leaving you cease and desist orders. Doesn't mean that they ever stick infact, I've never seen one that stuck. If you have please do tell.
Back at you Elder, go read about curation. There is no website on this earth that doesn't do it.
Whether it is done that way or not (which is debatable) is immaterial. My issue is with your unequivocal statement that because the star did not provide a quote plus the link back to the article they are courting more problem - problems which could cause them to shut down their online paper. Now which type of problem is that? It is clearly not legal problems becuase they have neither done anything there illegal nor infringed on any Intellectual Property. alma wrote:They must be included when writing other people's stuff. Now they are courting more problems by quoting the Huffington Post. I promise them, they might shut down that online paper at this rate.
Seriously!!  He who can express in words the ardour of his love, has but little love to express. - Petrach, Son. (That men by various ways arrive at the same end. - Montaigne, The Essays of.)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/19/2008 Posts: 4,268
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Elder wrote:alma wrote:@Elder, what I have said is exactly what is done. Go look at all the big and small media houses around the world. In fact the best in this business can quote the whole story and even the headings as long as they leave the link.
Quote, then provide a link.
Lawyers can always come back later to argue as they usually do. Leaving you cease and desist orders. Doesn't mean that they ever stick infact, I've never seen one that stuck. If you have please do tell.
Back at you Elder, go read about curation. There is no website on this earth that doesn't do it.
Whether it is done that way or not (which is debatable) is immaterial. My issue is with your unequivocal statement that because the star did not provide a quote plus the link back to the article they are courting more problem - problems which could cause them to shut down their online paper. Now which type of problem is that? It is clearly not legal problems becuase they have neither done anything there illegal nor infringed on any Intellectual Property. alma wrote:They must be included when writing other people's stuff. Now they are courting more problems by quoting the Huffington Post. I promise them, they might shut down that online paper at this rate.
Seriously!! Sometimes it is easier to deal with legal issues than confidence/trust issues if you are in certain businesses. If your readers start wondering if your writers can think for themselves or if they can give accurate information, then you have an elephant convincing the same readers to buy your, say paper, or listen to you. if you face this challenge, how then do you compete with the rest in the market?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/7/2010 Posts: 2,148 Location: elderville
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Wendz wrote:Elder wrote:alma wrote:@Elder, what I have said is exactly what is done. Go look at all the big and small media houses around the world. In fact the best in this business can quote the whole story and even the headings as long as they leave the link.
Quote, then provide a link.
Lawyers can always come back later to argue as they usually do. Leaving you cease and desist orders. Doesn't mean that they ever stick infact, I've never seen one that stuck. If you have please do tell.
Back at you Elder, go read about curation. There is no website on this earth that doesn't do it.
Whether it is done that way or not (which is debatable) is immaterial. My issue is with your unequivocal statement that because the star did not provide a quote plus the link back to the article they are courting more problem - problems which could cause them to shut down their online paper. Now which type of problem is that? It is clearly not legal problems becuase they have neither done anything there illegal nor infringed on any Intellectual Property. alma wrote:They must be included when writing other people's stuff. Now they are courting more problems by quoting the Huffington Post. I promise them, they might shut down that online paper at this rate.
Seriously!! Sometimes it is easier to deal with legal issues than confidence/trust issues if you are in certain businesses. If your readers start wondering if your writers can think for themselves or if they can give accurate information, then you have an elephant convincing the same readers to buy your, say paper, or listen to you. if you face this challenge, how then do you compete with the rest in the market? @Wendz by the time I read about the Mutoko thing she had allegedly edited her work to 'hide her crime' (copyright infringement is a crime in Kenya) so I do not to just how much copying was done, if at all. I have consequently not commented on that particular issue. My posts on this thread have been on one issue where I believe @alma has been misleading people -that a reference to information from another article MUST be quoted and LINKED to otherwise it could lead to problems so big it can shut down the online presence of a media house. Now how can disclosing the source of the information that you use in an article lead to confidence/trust issues merely because you never provided a link to it? He who can express in words the ardour of his love, has but little love to express. - Petrach, Son. (That men by various ways arrive at the same end. - Montaigne, The Essays of.)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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quicksand wrote:masukuma wrote:Wendz wrote:MKWASI wrote:mukiha wrote:A write never copies anything without acknowledging the source... and checking for copyright restrictions before using a large part of it...
A serious writer, doesn't even copy himself/herself without acknowledging that he/she had published the same words at a different time or publications.
This is the reason why you will see the likes of Sunny Bindra writing something like: "In 1997, I wrote in the East African that 'A man like Mwai Kibaki can change the way Kenyans view the concept of developmental...'" He is quoting himself and he tells the reader that this is not the first time he is using those words.
So the question really is: is Mutoko serious about her writing? @Mukiha...Writing is a different art altogether. Portraying your ignorance in writing, is just irreversable. I think She should just stick to radio (you can say something today and deny tomorrow borrowing a leaf from our Mpigs). she ain't doing well either on that radio front but it will save her albeit for the time being! This boils down to what people read. If you appreciate good writing, you'll definitely be pissed off with copy and paste because chances are that you've read it elsewhere or even if you've not, you do not want, in future, to quote the wrong source and give credit to the "copy paster". why? you have read it before - skip it! if she felt that the contents of the material she read somewhere else was exactly what she would have told herself 20 years ago - why change? so that we can comply with external ideals? think about it - when Kibaki insulted people who annoyed him 'Kubaff, Mafi ya Kuku'. Do we have to reference him when we dismiss other people of similar behaviours? As Kibaki says - 'wewe ni Kubaff, Mafi ya kuku' @Masukuma .. yours is a simplistic rationalization and its totally wrong. There are professional writing ethics and all journalists should follow them. Heck, there are copyright laws to protect against it. If you copied an academic paper and got caught you would fail. A Romanian PM or Minister had to resign just because of such a transgression. Plagiarism is the equivalent of finding a squatter has allocated him/herself a part of (or all of) your house as his/her living quarters after you sweat blood and tears to construct it. In the absence of a credit and reference, it is pissing on the person who sat and thought long and hard to come up with an original piece. How do you not get it? have you read my whole analysis of this plagiarism and IP thing earlier on this forum? I have addressed all the issues you have outlined and no one has argued convincingly otherwise. in the context of the majority of the world's cultures - I will not repeat stuff i have already addressed before. We are just doing stuff because others are doing it - we are not interested in the historical background of IP and whether or not its actually beneficial for us (net importers of IP) to engage in something that is obviously foreign and serves no benefit for us. plus...HOW MANY TIMES MUST I SAY - THIS IS NOT A CLASSROOM ASSIGNMENT! All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/5/2010 Posts: 2,061 Location: Nairobi
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@masukuma - so are you saying that if we do something wrong many times it becomes right, acceptable? The piece was published in a newspaper! So we imported IP,...you have decided its not beneficial. On what grounds? Have you heard of syndication? Why stop at that just one article? No point in writing original content ....nooooo .... if there is nothing wrong with lifting material like that, why bother paying Mutoko a commission to do it? They need not go far, they can start by lifting stuff from Nation,..or Standard...then slap a name on the by-line and voila! a newspaper.
Mutoko has jeopardized her budding writing career. That is a fact. If she was to submit a piece to an international publication, it is very possible it will not get published until she addresses the issue in an honest and transparent manner. Those are the facts. Rampant bad practice will not transition plagiarism into a good thing.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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quicksand wrote:@masukuma - so are you saying that if we do something wrong many times it becomes right, acceptable? The piece was published in a newspaper! So we imported IP,...you have decided its not beneficial. On what grounds? Have you heard of syndication? Why stop at that just one article? No point in writing original content ....nooooo .... if there is nothing wrong with lifting material like that, why bother paying Mutoko a commission to do it? They need not go far, they can start by lifting stuff from Nation,..or Standard...then slap a name on the by-line and voila! a newspaper.
Mutoko has jeopardized her budding writing career. That is a fact. If she was to submit a piece to an international publication, it is very possible it will not get published until she addresses the issue in an honest and transparent manner. Those are the facts. Rampant bad practice will not transition plagiarism into a good thing. actually - YES! the world is a supermarket we don't have to pick up stuff that don't add benefit to us. I believe i have already explained this exhaustively in earlier posts. I believe we should be context sensitive! this is not academic and thus we should not be IP police to the rest of the world. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/5/2010 Posts: 2,061 Location: Nairobi
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@masukuma - so, if you wrote a novel..(an ebook, easier to copy) ...you take say 3 years ..then I come along and copy huge parts of (or even all) the prose ..start splitting your profits .....you would be cool with that?...it is not an academic work after all! Are you defending such an untenable position just to annoy people or you really can't see or don't understand the reprehensibility of ripping off other people's work?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/25/2007 Posts: 1,574
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Open letter to Caroline Mutoko: Response from Generation Y http://www.ghafla.co.ke/...ponse-from-generation-y
Wait until CM reads this. Si atatukana watu!  Set out to correct the world's wrongs and you will most certainly wind up adding to them.
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Rank: Chief Joined: 8/24/2009 Posts: 5,909 Location: Nairobi
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/15/2012 Posts: 1,110
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Really? Do we have to argue whether plagiarism is bad? It's morally and ethically wrong period! Live Full Die Empty - Les Brown.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/9/2009 Posts: 6,592 Location: Nairobi
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Is this plagiarized too? If not, it's a great and brave articles. Kudos to whoever wrote it.
BBI will solve it :)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2012 Posts: 3,855 Location: Othumo
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2012 wrote:Is this plagiarized too? If not, it's a great and brave articles. Kudos to whoever wrote it. Regardsless how great she can write, i dont like that woman, her guts and all. and let us meet at the ballot, this is a free country. UHURUTO  Thieves
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/19/2007 Posts: 2,047
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2012 wrote:Is this plagiarized too? If not, it's a great and brave articles. Kudos to whoever wrote it. hehhehe @ nostop,you have posted this one kila mahali !! what is it ?
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"I Will Not Apologize" -- Caroline Mutoko Responds to Plagiarism Claims
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