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4 family (3 bed/2bath) flat budget Ksh. 5m
Penny-Stocker
#1 Posted : Saturday, September 22, 2012 10:34:35 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/31/2010
Posts: 154
Hello Wazuans, I am starting a project thread for my project in Mamboleo,Kisumu- 4 family (3bed, 2bath). I will be posting costs, challenges, and all that jazz. My budget is 5m... I own the land outright, which is a good thing.
“None but ourselves can free our minds.”
- Bob Marley
young
#2 Posted : Sunday, September 23, 2012 1:51:07 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2007
Posts: 2,037
Location: Lagos, Nigeria
ok let us know
size of build up area
type of soil
any BQ ie boys or servant quarters?
Any previous building experience ?
Are you hiring foreman ?
Do you have a store or space for material?
What is your source of water for the project?
The wazua spirit as members is to educate and inform and learn from others within the limit of what we know in any chosen area irrespective of our differences in tribes, nationalities, etc. .
guru267
#3 Posted : Sunday, September 23, 2012 6:41:45 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
Be careful about your 5million cost.. It might leave little room for any margins to be had!

I know for a fact GOK is selling very spacious flats in Nairobi, Madaraka (3bed/2bath) for 7million...
If yours are located all the way in Kisumu it might be hard to charge an amount even close to this!
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
Gordon Gekko
#4 Posted : Sunday, September 23, 2012 1:39:10 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/27/2008
Posts: 3,760
Is it an investment or a humble abode? If the former, you can do better - especially when you add the cost of land to the 5 meters you intend to spend. If the latter, I'm all for it. BTW how is water and security in that neighborhood? Are there schools for the kids in the neighborhood?
Wakanyugi
#5 Posted : Sunday, September 23, 2012 3:20:45 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
I am starting a similar project too and it would be good to exchange experiences.

Mine is a personal 3 bed roomed Simba (own house); budget just under 4M; location Ruiru, Membley. The land is paid for.

I am hiring a fundi and covering the cost from own savings.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
Penny-Stocker
#6 Posted : Sunday, September 23, 2012 5:52:29 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/31/2010
Posts: 154
guru267 wrote:
Be careful about your 5million cost.. It might leave little room for any margins to be had!

I know for a fact GOK is selling very spacious flats in Nairobi, Madaraka (3bed/2bath) for 7million...
If yours are located all the way in Kisumu it might be hard to charge an amount even close to this!


I am not building to sell. It is an investment (retirement may be) I am 29yrs old and just want to secure my financial future
“None but ourselves can free our minds.”
- Bob Marley
Penny-Stocker
#7 Posted : Sunday, September 23, 2012 6:01:58 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/31/2010
Posts: 154
@Gekko:
Is it an investment or a humble abode? If the former, you can do better ..especially when you add the cost of land to the 5 meters you intend to spend. If the latter, I'm all for it.....It is an investment. Acquired the land about 4 years ago and is fully paid for.
BTW how is water and security in that neighborhood?.....Well water (already sank and functional) will be pumped to a storage tank and treated.Security is good. A lot of people and putting up mansions around this place.
Are there schools for the kids in the neighborhood?.....[/quote]Schools are in the city - 15 minutes drive
“None but ourselves can free our minds.”
- Bob Marley
digitek1
#8 Posted : Sunday, September 23, 2012 6:33:33 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/3/2010
Posts: 1,797
Location: Kenya
Penny-Stocker wrote:
guru267 wrote:
Be careful about your 5million cost.. It might leave little room for any margins to be had!

I know for a fact GOK is selling very spacious flats in Nairobi, Madaraka (3bed/2bath) for 7million...
If yours are located all the way in Kisumu it might be hard to charge an amount even close to this!


I am not building to sell. It is an investment (retirement may be) I am 29yrs old and just want to secure my financial future

29 yrs too young to be building retirement home unless its the house you are going to be living in. why not buy more vacant plots in the area
I may be wrong..but then I could be right
Penny-Stocker
#9 Posted : Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:03:52 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/31/2010
Posts: 154
@Young:
ok let us know
size of build up area = .04 Ha
type of soil.....Red murram mixed with some rock = very solid ground
any BQ ie boys or servant quarters?...No BQ, just the flat
Any previous building experience ?....Yes, two houses
Are you hiring foreman ?....Nope
Do you have a store or space for material?...Yes
What is your source of water for the project?.....Well, already functional at the site
“None but ourselves can free our minds.”
- Bob Marley
mawinder
#10 Posted : Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:05:24 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/30/2008
Posts: 6,029
Why Kisumu of all places and at such a time?
Penny-Stocker
#11 Posted : Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:07:45 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/31/2010
Posts: 154
Wakanyugi wrote:
I am starting a similar project too and it would be good to exchange experiences.

Mine is a personal 3 bed roomed Simba (own house); budget just under 4M; location Ruiru, Membley. The land is paid for.

I am hiring a fundi and covering the cost from own savings.

Where's your project at? That might either increase or decrease your cost drastically
“None but ourselves can free our minds.”
- Bob Marley
Penny-Stocker
#12 Posted : Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:11:35 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/31/2010
Posts: 154
mawinder wrote:
Why Kisumu of all places and at such a time?

Opportunities - it's all about risk and rewards. The town's professional community is growing and lack of decent housing at the moment equals opportunity for good ROI. My location is pretty safe - its around Momboleo/Riat Hills (the new Milimani of Kisumu
“None but ourselves can free our minds.”
- Bob Marley
Penny-Stocker
#13 Posted : Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:14:18 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/31/2010
Posts: 154
digitek1 wrote:
Penny-Stocker wrote:
guru267 wrote:
Be careful about your 5million cost.. It might leave little room for any margins to be had!

I know for a fact GOK is selling very spacious flats in Nairobi, Madaraka (3bed/2bath) for 7million...
If yours are located all the way in Kisumu it might be hard to charge an amount even close to this!


I am not building to sell. It is an investment (retirement may be) I am 29yrs old and just want to secure my financial future

29 yrs too young to be building retirement home unless its the house you are going to be living in. why not buy more vacant plots in the area

Digi, it's never too early to start planning for retirement...how about if I want to retire at 45 or 50 and travel our beautiful country - I'll be able to do that knowing that at the end of the month, I'll have cash in my bank account. Oh, not to mention that I'll be my own boss.
“None but ourselves can free our minds.”
- Bob Marley
Wakanyugi
#14 Posted : Sunday, September 23, 2012 10:09:41 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634

Where's your project at? That might either increase or decrease your cost drastically[/quote]

Ruiru, just behind KU. I am using Ndarugu building stones, sourced an hour away, which is already giving some savings.

Mine is an actual retirement home and I plan to take two years to complete the project. Once done I intend to reward myself with a year off to really get to see Kenya. I get embarrassed when visitors seem to know my beautiful country better than I.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
Penny-Stocker
#15 Posted : Sunday, September 23, 2012 10:55:03 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/31/2010
Posts: 154
Wakanyugi wrote:

Where's your project at? That might either increase or decrease your cost drastically


Wakanyugi wrote:

Ruiru, just behind KU. I am using Ndarugu building stones, sourced an hour away, which is already giving some savings.Mine is an actual retirement home and I plan to take two years to complete the project. Once done I intend to reward myself with a year off to really get to see Kenya. I get embarrassed when visitors seem to know my beautiful country better than I.


Good luck Wakanugi.... two years is a very short time. You'll be done before you know it. I hope to have mine done by January 2013. We'll see.
“None but ourselves can free our minds.”
- Bob Marley
young
#16 Posted : Tuesday, September 25, 2012 5:01:06 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2007
Posts: 2,037
Location: Lagos, Nigeria
@All,

Be aware that if your plot is located in a middle income or upcoming high brow area and if your investment objective is for income , it is better to go for terrace maisonettes (duplexes)
rather than 4 flats for the following reasons :-

PROS
(i) Your build up area will be drastically reduced, as you can build TWO OR THREE of 4 bedroom maisonettes on a 1/4 acre plot . The builup area of each will be 0.012Ha ie 120 Square meters or LESS having one visitors room downstairs and 3 bedrooms upstairs etc.
That means you can build two maisonattes on 240 sq meters (0.024 HA) or LESS and 3 terrace masionattes on 360 sqare meters (0.036 Ha) or LESS.

(ii) You use less building materials as you only have one kitchen per duplex, one master bedroom rather than multiple kitchens (per flat ) etc. There will less expenditure on plumbing materials, the slab (decking) area is reduced as part of it is used for the internal staircase etc.

(iii ) Good pricing for your building if you want to sale off in future and you have ample space if you desire to add boys quarters and other utilities like garden /lawn,
carport etc. The add ons increases your rental income.

(iv) You deal with less tenants which reduces the risk of payment default as mostly middle to high income earners will be your likely clients
and you will be dealing with less number of tenants.

(iv) Easier to build in phases as beyond german floor (DPC) and roofing, you can segment the construction by progressing far in one duplex before you continue with the next one.

CONS
(i) Low demand as it only appeals to a particular segment of the society. It has to be
situated in a good secure environment with basic amenities.

(ii) The pricing that is the rental income may be low initially (150% higher than rental cost of a flat) in the first two years but there after the rental income will be 100% or more compared to the rental cost of a flat.
This is not a problem bearing in mind that you spent less to build as compared to building a block of flats so invariable ROI on both initially are the same. With time you can easily achieve ROI of 10 - 20%.


NOTE :- This is only an additional information (might be for the future) not
neccessarily to discourage our friend @Penny-Stocker to continue with his well planned project.



Regards

The wazua spirit as members is to educate and inform and learn from others within the limit of what we know in any chosen area irrespective of our differences in tribes, nationalities, etc. .
Penny-Stocker
#17 Posted : Saturday, September 29, 2012 2:22:35 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/31/2010
Posts: 154
young wrote:
@All,

Be aware that if your plot is located in a middle income or upcoming high brow area and if your investment objective is for income , it is better to go for terrace maisonettes (duplexes)
rather than 4 flats for the following reasons :-

PROS
(i) Your build up area will be drastically reduced, as you can build TWO OR THREE of 4 bedroom maisonettes on a 1/4 acre plot . The builup area of each will be 0.012Ha ie 120 Square meters or LESS having one visitors room downstairs and 3 bedrooms upstairs etc.
That means you can build two maisonattes on 240 sq meters (0.024 HA) or LESS and 3 terrace masionattes on 360 sqare meters (0.036 Ha) or LESS.

(ii) You use less building materials as you only have one kitchen per duplex, one master bedroom rather than multiple kitchens (per flat ) etc. There will less expenditure on plumbing materials, the slab (decking) area is reduced as part of it is used for the internal staircase etc.

(iii ) Good pricing for your building if you want to sale off in future and you have ample space if you desire to add boys quarters and other utilities like garden /lawn,
carport etc. The add ons increases your rental income.

(iv) You deal with less tenants which reduces the risk of payment default as mostly middle to high income earners will be your likely clients
and you will be dealing with less number of tenants.

(iv) Easier to build in phases as beyond german floor (DPC) and roofing, you can segment the construction by progressing far in one duplex before you continue with the next one.

CONS
(i) Low demand as it only appeals to a particular segment of the society. It has to be
situated in a good secure environment with basic amenities.

(ii) The pricing that is the rental income may be low initially (150% higher than rental cost of a flat) in the first two years but there after the rental income will be 100% or more compared to the rental cost of a flat.
This is not a problem bearing in mind that you spent less to build as compared to building a block of flats so invariable ROI on both initially are the same. With time you can easily achieve ROI of 10 - 20%.


NOTE :- This is only an additional information (might be for the future) not
neccessarily to discourage our friend @Penny-Stocker to continue with his well planned project.



Regards


@Young;
I see your reasoning. My location is upcoming mid to high income. Lots of people constructing their own homes. My target is middle income families, and again, this is a long term investment...I won't be offloading this.
“None but ourselves can free our minds.”
- Bob Marley
Wakanyugi
#18 Posted : Saturday, September 29, 2012 10:27:45 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
[quote=young]@All,

Be aware that if your plot is located in a middle income or upcoming high brow area and if your investment objective is for income , it is better to go for terrace maisonettes (duplexes)
rather than 4 flats for the following reasons Whistle



Dear Young,

This is very useful information, thanks. I happen to own a quarter acre plot in the same Membley area. The location meets all the conditions you have outline. I have been thinking of doing 2 maisonettes as you describe - for rent. The only question I have is whether to use bank credit. What is your take on this? I am sure I can get at least 70% financing but would like the rental cash flow to pay for the loan.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
young
#19 Posted : Tuesday, October 02, 2012 3:34:06 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2007
Posts: 2,037
Location: Lagos, Nigeria
@Wakanyugi
My point of view is, go for the bank credit if
the interest rate is below 10%, but can you find one ?

OR

Joint a good SACCO, finance to a level and take a soft loan which usually 5% interest.

The only time you could consider taking bank loan for real estate is if you are building to sale in a very prime and marketable area.


Regards
The wazua spirit as members is to educate and inform and learn from others within the limit of what we know in any chosen area irrespective of our differences in tribes, nationalities, etc. .
Wakanyugi
#20 Posted : Tuesday, October 02, 2012 7:29:05 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634

"Joint a good SACCO, finance to a level and take a soft loan which usually 5% interest.

The only time you could consider taking bank loan for real estate is if you are building to sale in a very prime and marketable area."


Thanks Young.

This is good advice

Back to the drawing board I go.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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