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Options trading
Nabwire
#1 Posted : Thursday, September 06, 2012 9:56:07 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/22/2011
Posts: 1,325
Is there anyone who trades options? I would like to get a quick tutorial of what it entails. I heard that options is where the money is at, someone tried to explain it to me but he didnt do a good job coz I have more questions than answers. So far I understand puts and calls but I dont really understand how you execute the order. He said something about insuring your calls, how does that work?? Does anyone have any experience with this? I dont really feel like reading on it coz most authors give you BS advise. He also said that you dont lose money in options, how true is this? And how are you able to buy options at a tenth price of a stock?? Hisah?? Drunkard?? Anyone??
itz
#2 Posted : Friday, September 07, 2012 8:04:26 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/20/2009
Posts: 348
@Nabire i trade options but i would rather you read first about options trading because it would be hard to explain if you dont understand the basics.go to optionsmonster.com and study during your free time.
The person who told you that you dont lose money in options lied to you.You can lose money if the trade goes against you and your options expire worthless.The good thing about options is that your risk is defined(you can choose how much money you are willing to lose but if the trade works because of leverage(one option contract equals 100 shares) you can make alot of money %wise ) Am sure you know also that if you stretch your bet then you can also lose alot of money.
This is how the pros play stocks with high share price like apple,google,pcln etc
I have seen someone turn 2k(dollars) into 45k in a matter of hrs,i have seen someone turn 1 million dollars into 25k in less than 24hrs.Most people lose money in option trading and i prefer using them as insurance/hedge against my long or short positions
Nabwire
#3 Posted : Friday, September 07, 2012 8:12:49 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/22/2011
Posts: 1,325
Hey you've just made my day. I plan on reading up on it, actually I will take a class on it but I just wanted to find out the quick facts about it. And the guy said you dont lose money coz you can make a putand call on a stock so even if it goes down, you still make money but now that I think about it, if it goes down, you lose the bet that you put in that it will go up right?? But then he said something about insuring your bets. Is there any way you can just give me the basic key points of how it works? Im honestly slumped with school right now it wil be a while before I read up on it
Nabwire
#4 Posted : Friday, September 07, 2012 8:51:32 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/22/2011
Posts: 1,325
I just logged to the site you gave, its by the Najarian brothers and Guy Adami!! These guys confused the heck out of me during the recession, and plus its a pay to play site. Yani I just want somewhere to get basics on it before I even attempt to involve a "professional". Looks like I will have to open the books, thanks though.
Nabwire
#5 Posted : Friday, September 07, 2012 9:08:50 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/22/2011
Posts: 1,325
Oh I found the self help section, will read through it. So far it looks like options make money with volatility??? A stock that doesnt move is not a good candidate?? That means the last few years when the VIX has been high, people trading options have made alot of money?? So my thinking is penny stocks are the best candidates for options coz just a change of 0.01 gives a big % change?
Nabwire
#6 Posted : Friday, September 07, 2012 9:10:25 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/22/2011
Posts: 1,325
Oh I found the self help section, will read through it. So far it looks like options make money with volatility??? A stock that doesnt move is not a good candidate?? That means the last few years when the VIX has been high, people trading options have made alot of money?? So my thinking is penny stocks are the best candidates for options coz just a change of 0.01 gives a big % change?
murchr
#7 Posted : Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:40:29 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
@Nabwire, may be futures are better. Share the knowledge
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Nabwire
#8 Posted : Sunday, September 09, 2012 4:46:31 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/22/2011
Posts: 1,325
Bado najaribu kuelewa how they work, ni vile hiyo class ya options siichukui mpaka next year but in the meantime najua there is alot of money to be made coz its an election year. Hizi ni zile pesa za siri, only a few know how to play the game, but hizi pesa za masonko wa US lazima tuzipate au sio...LOL. Go through the site he gave,education & webinars kisha ugo through Options 101 and the other classes, maybe tunaweza saidiana tutengeneze pesa before Nov 6. So far what I got is 1 option equals 100 shares, so basically you are buying the share at one hundreth of its regular price. Halafu from the example they gave, if Google is selling at $500, and you put in options at $25 ( here im not sure what the $25 stands for as opposed to a $10 or $5) then Google goes up to $550, you will have doubled your seed money. But if it goes down instead of up, you will have lost your money, and here is where it gets a bit tricky with covering calls etc, im still reading on it. So fanya homework, maybe Itz will be kind enough to come back and answer questions.
jirani
#9 Posted : Monday, September 10, 2012 8:36:40 AM
Rank: Hello


Joined: 8/17/2012
Posts: 9
itz wrote:
@Nabire i trade options but i would rather you read first about options trading because it would be hard to explain if you dont understand the basics.go to optionsmonster.com and study during your free time.
The person who told you that you dont lose money in options lied to you.You can lose money if the trade goes against you and your options expire worthless.The good thing about options is that your risk is defined(you can choose how much money you are willing to lose but if the trade works because of leverage(one option contract equals 100 shares) you can make alot of money %wise ) Am sure you know also that if you stretch your bet then you can also lose alot of money.
This is how the pros play stocks with high share price like apple,google,pcln etc
I have seen someone turn 2k(dollars) into 45k in a matter of hrs,i have seen someone turn 1 million dollars into 25k in less than 24hrs.Most people lose money in option trading and i prefer using them as insurance/hedge against my long or short positions

Itz, i dint know there are Kenyans who trade 9in options! that's a first, please elaborate who and where and how it is managed. and i think there is some true in what Nabwire was told. with some complex options like collars, you can almost not loose. but remember,like all derivative products, it boils down to what you are using them for. like a Knife!
Daring ideas are like chessmen moved forward. They may be beaten, but they may start a winning game.
Nabwire
#10 Posted : Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:39:25 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/22/2011
Posts: 1,325
Pliz Itz or Jirani interpret this table for me? For example at $8.50 it says the last was 0.41 and its down 0.14, what does that mean? The stock itself is down 0.14, is that the same 0.14 for the option? But at $8 there are two quotes, the first one was last at 0.91 and down 0.16, then the second one the last was 0.97 down 0.01, what does this mean? Why two different prices?? Oh by the way im quoting the calls. Then can you buy the options at any time with a 30 day expiration? Pliz lemme know.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/op?s=BAC+Options
itz
#11 Posted : Thursday, September 13, 2012 10:30:51 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/20/2009
Posts: 348
[quote=Nabwire]Pliz Itz or Jirani interpret this table for me? For example at $8.50 it says the last was 0.41 and its down 0.14, what does that mean? The stock itself is down 0.14, is that the same 0.14 for the option? But at $8 there are two quotes, the first one was last at 0.91 and down 0.16, then the second one the last was 0.97 down 0.01, what does this mean? Why two different prices?? Oh by the way im quoting the calls. Then can you buy the options at any time with a 30 day expiration? Pliz lemme know.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/op?s=BAC+Options[/quote]

Hi Nabwire.am looking at this after market close.i have been travelling and haven't been able to respond to you.for the stock BAC the 8.50 is the strike price basically the price you are betting the stock will be trading at on the expiration date you have chosen.looking at BAC today the 0.41(last) is the last price the 8.50 call option traded at.if it is down 0.14 that is for the option price and not stock price.also has to do intrinsic value
For the sept 8 calls 0.91 most likely was the last traded price,the second price of .97 was that on the bid or ask? it couldn't be on the last column..Yes you can buy options anytime before their expiration which is normally the 3rd friday of the month in the US market.For a beginner try go longer than 30 days especially for stocks like BAC because of time decay.The closer this stock gets to expiration and the chances of your strike price being hit diminish then the value of your options goes down too.Also dont buy out of the money calls(strike price far from current stock price) unless you are a big risk taker.The trick is normally to have enough time to make a profit on your options before expiration.Look for 40-60% profit and just keep doing it.I dont buy options for slow moving stocks like BAC, i prefer fast moving stocks like GMCR,MCP,JCP,APPL,GOOG,LVS,NFLX you get the drift.These stocks move a couple of dollars at a time and the right trade can make u a lot of money quick.you can also blow up all your capital.Also on these stocks i have mentioned i only do weekly options(expiration after 1 wk) but i wouldn't start there if i was a beginner.last week after posting i bought 1k worth of GMCR 27 call.i sold a day later for 200% profit but by tuesday this those calls were up 2000%.could have made 20k and if risked 4k could have made 80k.it is also possible that the stock would have gone down and i could have lost my 1k.That is just one example.
So Nabwire i urge to learn how trade options,take time and dont start with a live account.practice before you put your money on the line,remember the big boyz want that money and they manipulate the market and more so the options.
sizzla
#12 Posted : Thursday, September 13, 2012 12:01:07 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/10/2006
Posts: 201
Location: Nairobi
If you are serious i suggest you start with a small amount like $200. I started out 2 months ago with $600, right now i have a little over $4000 after recouping $1000 just to cover my initial costs.

I have to admit its not as easy as it looks, initially i lost most of my $600 investment and was down to $85...and that was just on the first day of trading!! Eventually i have learnt not to be greedy and to trade with 5% on my net worth at any given time.
Nabwire
#13 Posted : Thursday, September 13, 2012 9:29:28 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/22/2011
Posts: 1,325
Thanks alot Itz. I kinda understand better. So what factors make an option move up or down? Like right now Bernanke has announced QE3, how are you playing that news? Mayne those are impressive returns, I just know that this being less than 2 months to the elections, there is money to be made, just dont know how to play it. Like I know you said BAC is a slow moving stock, but it has shot up recently, you dont think that a combination of QE3 & elections will make the options do well? And I also didnt understand why sometimes an option will have 2 prices like right now BAC calls have 2 prices for 7 and 8 both with different amounts in gains, why?
Im being super greedy right now, so im guessing with Christmas season approaching, I should look for retail stocks and electronics like AAPL,BBY, Macysetc. By the way nice play on GMCR I remember when it was being hammered, I just wonder why this stock does so well even better than SBUX. What do you think about Nintendo and Netflix, I am just trying to focus on consumer stocks especially with the holiday season coming up. Ohhweee I see your point, AAPL is up $14, but you will need alot more money to play it coz the cheapest strike is at 290. So right now a call of 680 is in the money with the last price at 11.90 and up 5.30, lets assume i would have bought $2,000 worth earlier and im ready to sell today, how much would that translate to? Like how much would I get in my account after selling? Also is 60 days sufficient time to hold the options? If you reach your target you can always sell right? So lets say you said the option will go to 10, but it goes over and rallies to 15, you are paid the difference right? What if instead of going to 10 it just goes to 8.90, you lose the equivalent of .10 worth of options right?
Great strategy Sizzla
sizzla
#14 Posted : Friday, September 14, 2012 1:57:16 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/10/2006
Posts: 201
Location: Nairobi
@Nabwire, options are just like gambling. You take into account 'market forces', just like football. For instance, the chances of Man U losing the game against Stoke with Van Persie starting are slim at best. Of course he may get an injury during the game, or get a red card so it's basically a gamble.

I would like you to realize that if you don't have an appetite for risk, don't start at all. It's painful losing your hard earned money, but you get a thrill when the profits come in. Basically it a lose or win. You place options that the price will rise or fall and if you get it right you get approx. 75% of your investment as profits. If you lose you miss out on everything. No refunds!!!

I would suggest putting options on stocks that gain/lose in big margins like Apple, HSBC, BP and Google, i have just made a killing after a string of losses over the past few days.

Also try out futures like DAX, NASDAQ, CAC and FTSE, especially after yesterday's Fed decision to 'print' money. The dollar will ultimately lose against other currencies which will make investors rally for futures and commodities like Gold and Platinum.

Nabwire
#15 Posted : Friday, September 14, 2012 2:11:39 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/22/2011
Posts: 1,325
Congrats, so what stock did you make a killing in?
Apple seems to be a favorite which makes sense especially coz they come out with a new phone every second, and iPhone owners are usually giddy to get the latest one. But what are your thoughts on Google, it has huge margins too. And I was thinking Amazon coz of holiday season plus QE3 has to be a good thing for them. more discretionary income hence more shopping.
I cant do futures yet, have no clue how its played.
sizzla
#16 Posted : Friday, September 14, 2012 2:20:01 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/10/2006
Posts: 201
Location: Nairobi
Futures are just like stocks, for instance when NSE floats its shares it will become similar to a future. It depends on the collective profits/losses of all the companies in the index.

I went for Apple at 663 (Now trading at 685) and Google at 695 (Now trading at 707). I placed orders for today the 14th as well as the 28th of this month. Call it a hunch but am lucky it paid off. Plus i placed options using all my cash approx. $4000 which will make me about 3 times by month's end. I broke the 5% rule but sometimes you just have to make a gamble. Happy trading!!!
Nabwire
#17 Posted : Friday, September 14, 2012 2:32:39 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/22/2011
Posts: 1,325
Thats great, so in options terms how up are you right now? Gosh I still dont undrstand fully but my hunch was also to go with Apple and Google. So when you say you placed orders for today the 14th and 28th, what does that mean? You placed a bet that the price will be X on the 28th? So Im guessing you do weekly trades. I am very risk tolerant but only if I understand what Im doing, but I know the best way to learn is to just go in and make mistakes.
sizzla
#18 Posted : Friday, September 14, 2012 2:49:48 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/10/2006
Posts: 201
Location: Nairobi
Correct. I placed a bet that Google will be higher than price X, at 11:00am today. The times are very specific up to the second. You could be up until the last 30 seconds then your stock loses value, meaning you lose everything. Orders have a maturity period known as 'Expiry'. That is the only time you recoup your profits. Until then you are basically keeping your fingers crossed. Ever since i started, i try to do daily trades.

First i start by visiting reuters.com where i look up the closing and opening prices as well as the asking price. Based on these figures, I start off with Japanese stocks at 6:30am. Stocks like Toyota, Honda and Sony are always a good bet. Thereafter, when Asian markets close I move to commodities between 9:00am and 12:00pm. I then move to Europe where i trade in CAC and DAX futures until 3:00pm.

I then go on a break until 8:00pm to US markets where i trade until 11:00pm. I try to keep this pattern daily, but of course when i lose more than $500 i stop until the next day. It's often easy to try recouping losses but more often the house always wins....so i quit while am ahead.
Nabwire
#19 Posted : Friday, September 14, 2012 3:05:50 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/22/2011
Posts: 1,325
Wait, you can only recoup your profits during expiry? So if I bought 60 day options, I can be locked in for the full 60 days? Midway through I cant decide to sell coz I have already reached my goal?
I only trade stocks and I have insomnia with numbers and percentages flying all thru my mind, I just wonder how people like you sleep with all that activity? Asia, Europe, US and Africa, gosh I would have to be on sleeping pills to be able to sleep. That sounds like a tough schedule.
sizzla
#20 Posted : Friday, September 14, 2012 3:16:45 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/10/2006
Posts: 201
Location: Nairobi
Now u get it, that's exactly how options work. Choose your poison carefully coz nothing comes free...
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