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why is RAO interfering with a listed company yet he is not a share holder
murchr
#81 Posted : Tuesday, September 04, 2012 5:32:07 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
mukiha wrote:
murchr wrote:
mukiha wrote:
murchr wrote:
Ondiek wrote:
Political pronouncements aside - why does KQ always undertake retrenchment to bolster their performance?


KQ's Mission is to maximize in profit making, not to create employment. Notice, they are acquiring new planes 787 that consume less fuel, greater capacity and covering long distances.


Now read this: www.kenya-airways.com/Ho...ways/Mission_and_Vision/


Muhika, If you went to business school am sure you learnt that the single most important objective of a company is to make PROFIT and grow the share holder value, without that the company is non-existent. Read their vision, its very clear and note on the mission where they mention employees - its in maximizing their satisfaction. Simply said, KQ cant satisfy the bloated workforce and still continue to grow the shareholder value. And note the company in not in existence to employ people, its there to screw competition and make mula


Like most business people, I did NOT go business school. And if that is what they teach, then I'll say I'm luck that I didn't go!

The notion that "the single most important objective of a company is to make PROFIT" is a fallacy peddled by "employee-type" people.

The day that a business begins to see profit as its PRIMARY motive also marks the beginning of its downfall.

look around and you will see that people who go into a line of business for profit alone don't last there for long. The moment they see the first sign of trouble, they jump out and go to the next "most profitable thing".

Businesses that last [and thrive] are driven by something more than the profit: the desire to satisfy a certain need in the market. Profit only serves to sustain the growth.

It is interesting that, on a personal level, we have very many people who have been driven to certain careers by the prospects of making a lot of money.

Like Jesus Christ asked 2,000 years ago "What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?"

What good will it be if you earn the highest salary in the land, but lose the opportunity to be what you were meant to be?

The same question can be asked of a business.

Thus when KQ says that its mission is "To maximise shareholder value..." the word value must be interpreted in a broad sense; not just in terms of profits. If it was profit that the framers of that mission had in mind, then they would have written "To maximise profits..."

But as it is; I have never seen a business that says its mission is to make the highest possible profit. Any business school teaching that has completely missed the point of business!



All those sugar coated words are all geared to one thing, make the customer smile and take that seat on the plane whilst paying a higher price for it. The bottom line remains, how much more did the investor earn at the end of the year.

The first question serious investors ask themselves when investing is what is the return on equity (ROE) the shareholders income on their shares, the 2nd being the debt and the 3rd the PROFIT MARGIN. Among other things...never does an investor ever think about the employees, that is for management to think about.


"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
Rolldrunk
#82 Posted : Tuesday, September 04, 2012 5:42:14 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/14/2012
Posts: 28
Reading all the commment kind of paint a picture of who we are as people

Someone said GK still own 29% of the company, that is still a significant ownership and it surely have a say in management of the company. Do I agree with RAO? I might not but at the same time, I don't know the management arrangement between GK and KQ, what I know is that a large number of developing countries make deals with companies operating in their regions to maintain some level of employment in exchange of some goodies so I am not surprised if there is some arrangement somewhere between GK and KQ. Obviously we want to think as if we're pure capitalist and for your information there is no country which is a pure capitalist so lets not be ahead of ourself, if companies like GE, Walmart, BP can make deals with government what makes anyone think KQ cannot?

So lets slow down a little bit and wait. holding Kshs 10k of KQ stock do not give you any right to say anything!
murchr
#83 Posted : Tuesday, September 04, 2012 5:53:04 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
@Rolldrunk Isn't the govt represented in the board by several directors ? Are you imagining that the mgt made the decision without consulting the board?
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
Jamani
#84 Posted : Tuesday, September 04, 2012 5:54:09 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/12/2006
Posts: 1,554
Rolldrunk wrote:
Reading all the commment kind of paint a picture of who we are as people

holding Kshs 10k of KQ stock do not give you any right to say anything!


I guess this retrenchment is affecting you directly or indirectly but hitting you hard..anyway thats not the point.... You mean we should not even say positive things? That employees what to hear like no one should be fired.....
MaichBlack
#85 Posted : Tuesday, September 04, 2012 6:08:47 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,703
murchr wrote:
@Rolldrunk Isn't the govt represented in the board by several directors ? Are you imagining that the mgt made the decision without consulting the board?

I just saw DRUNK
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
Rolldrunk
#86 Posted : Tuesday, September 04, 2012 6:46:03 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/14/2012
Posts: 28
@MaichBlack and murchr
Murchr reducing 150 employee do not have to go to the board, infact a company like KQ could have a natural attrition upto 100 FTEs each year. Lets assume in this situation it went through the board, for your info the board always just rubberstamp what the management want, management run the company not the board.

And like you said, GK is abviously represented in the board, and no one is saying the GK board member did or did not object to reduction, infact we don't know their stand, RAO however, is a politician he has to be public to advance his cause. You might agree or disagree with him but atleast he made his stand known. I think as a Kenya citizen, I want to see my government and my leaders say something when we're faced with situations like these.

@Jamani, retrenchment is not affecting me in anyway, I have never earned as single shilling from any Kenya company in my entire life. I live outside the country and I have different point of view on how to approach some of these issues.
murchr
#87 Posted : Tuesday, September 04, 2012 7:36:41 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Rolldrunk wrote:
@MaichBlack and murchr
Murchr reducing 150 employee do not have to go to the board, infact a company like KQ could have a natural attrition upto 100 FTEs each year. Lets assume in this situation it went through the board, for your info the board always just rubberstamp what the management want, management run the company not the board.

And like you said, GK is abviously represented in the board, and no one is saying the GK board member did or did not object to reduction, infact we don't know their stand, RAO however, is a politician he has to be public to advance his cause. You might agree or disagree with him but atleast he made his stand known. I think as a Kenya citizen, I want to see my government and my leaders say something when we're faced with situations like these.

@Jamani, retrenchment is not affecting me in anyway, I have never earned as single shilling from any Kenya company in my entire life. I live outside the country and I have different point of view on how to approach some of these issues.


The 150 is just the 1st phase, the number of those going is close to 10 times this. And the board is part of the management when is comes to pertinent issues such as restructuring. They must have been consulted, and a majority gave the go ahead. Now govt cannot muscle the rest.

I think KQ wants to minimize industrial actions. Just like banks when they hire people and label them as management so that they don't join unions.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
Jamani
#88 Posted : Tuesday, September 04, 2012 8:05:14 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/12/2006
Posts: 1,554
Rolldrunk wrote:
@MaichBlack and murchr

@Jamani, retrenchment is not affecting me in anyway, I have never earned as single shilling from any Kenya company in my entire life. I live outside the country and I have different point of view on how to approach some of these issues.


Thanks for the clarification, and thank God that you are not in anyway affected. However your note indicated that we shouldnt comment on it for having shares worth 10k which was puzzling.... I think we need to talk about this it will assist those that are still in employment to have a plan B and while i empathize with the affected workers, I need to encourage my fellow country Wo(men) not to get in love with their employers always strive to own the ladder, retrenchment and firing is the trend in kenya, it was done before by Celtel, Safcom, Shell, Mobil, Caltex, KDN, EABL, BBK, Stanchart, and it will continue as its being done by KK, KQ and brokerage firms among others... it frequently happens to staff in the hotel industry, people should learn to save... Kula happy na mpango.... and its only through serious discussions that people will learn, that companies have different objectives and employees are tools to achieve them nothing more, hence as one is still in active employment (s)he should put it in his/her head that the company might close tomorrow... remember castle breweries and the company that was competing with DSTV...
Museveni
#89 Posted : Tuesday, September 04, 2012 9:04:20 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/16/2012
Posts: 661
Jamani wrote:
Rolldrunk wrote:
@MaichBlack and murchr

@Jamani, retrenchment is not affecting me in anyway, I have never earned as single shilling from any Kenya company in my entire life. I live outside the country and I have different point of view on how to approach some of these issues.


I think we need to talk about this it will assist those that are still in employment to have a plan B and while i empathize with the affected workers, I need to encourage my fellow country Wo(men) not to get in love with their employers always strive to own the ladder, ... and its only through serious discussions that people will learn, that companies have different objectives and employees are tools to achieve them nothing more, hence as one is still in active employment (s)he should put it in his/her head that the company might close tomorrow... remember castle breweries and the company that was competing with DSTV...



Wise words. Well written. Let those those who have wandered into this discussion take heed!

In business, what matters is the bottom-line and the satisfaction to clients and not how many people depend on the company [ a sad but necessary reality]. Employees are but means to deliver service[s]/goods to the client.
Management and shareholders are the authority on hiring and dismissal of staff as long as the law and contractual agreements are met. No one is 'welded' to the company. Even the CEO knows his days are limited . . & more so accelerated exit when the company starts 'wobbling' & investor's funds seem to go into a 'black hole'.

Live and learn; and don’t forget, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
harrydre
#90 Posted : Tuesday, September 04, 2012 9:48:21 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/10/2008
Posts: 9,131
Location: Kanjo
murchr wrote:
simonkabz wrote:
Very uninformed. KQ is not a local market bwana, it is a PUBLICLY LISTED COMPANY.


Better said, its not a Fish Market


Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly even a dumb fisherman has to control his wage bill to survive in a competitive market.
i.am.back!!!!
Lolest!
#91 Posted : Tuesday, September 04, 2012 10:15:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
@admin,

why did you move the thread from the investor forum? Ama umedefect ukaingia TNA? smile
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
harrydre
#92 Posted : Tuesday, September 04, 2012 11:56:14 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/10/2008
Posts: 9,131
Location: Kanjo
I believe KQ has excessive workforce just hop into one of their planes and compare with other airlines. Also their uncontrolled expansion is now coming back to bite them.
i.am.back!!!!
luttz
#93 Posted : Wednesday, September 05, 2012 8:01:45 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/18/2008
Posts: 377
@ Ditto Jamani; terrible mistake it is to fall in love with whoever helps you to pay bills
"You've never lived until you've almost died; for those who have fought for it, life has a flavour the protected will never know."
MaichBlack
#94 Posted : Wednesday, September 05, 2012 8:40:06 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,703
Lolest! wrote:
@admin,

why did you move the thread from the investor forum? Ama umedefect ukaingia TNA? smile

You don't get it. Lady Admin has not defected. That is actually why she moved the thread! She is trying to achieve two things.

1) Reduce a serious discussion to political bickering. This is an opportunity for serious investors/business people/entrepreneurs etc. to interrogate how bad [or good] Raila is for business. That is the worry for most people going by the tone of most posts. Madam Admin and crew didn't like that. The would rather people engaged in the "good" old mud slinging based on parties, tribe and such other useless criteria!

2) Hide the thread! Most people [e.g. @vvs, @guru, @stockmaster, hundreds of guests etc.] rarely visit ClubSK let alone the politics section. Others, myself included avoid threads on "Politics" section. By moving the thread to "politics" section, Madam Admin is "hiding" the thread in a very subtle way. I'm sure she has all the statistics and she's making use of them!

@Madam Admin - I would like to strongly protest you moving this thread to politics section. The discussion on this thread has more to do with economy/investment/management than politics. Unless you recieved a call from someone, I don't understand why you had to move it! Secondly, this thread was started on 31st of August. It took you a whole five days to realize it should be moved??? I feel that my intelligence is being insulted here!!!

Take the thread back to "Investor" - Stocks or Economy.
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
McReggae
#95 Posted : Wednesday, September 05, 2012 8:42:25 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
Lolest! wrote:
@admin,

why did you move the thread from the investor forum? Ama umedefect ukaingia TNA? smile


I too noticed that this morning!!!

@Maichblack, what do you expect the admin to do when more than 50% of the posts are political???
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
bwenyenye
#96 Posted : Wednesday, September 05, 2012 8:45:35 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/24/2007
Posts: 1,805
I am always amused when I see grown men and women fighting for their jobs in a strike. I just dont get why you think that is the only thing you can do!!!!! Scarcity Mentality kabisa! nkt!
I Think Therefore I Am
AlphDoti
#97 Posted : Wednesday, September 05, 2012 8:56:09 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
digitek1 wrote:
Kausha wrote:
KQ's retrenchment logic appears flawed...
...emirates staff of 251 per aircraft..., yet KQ has 151 staff / aircraft....
...I can only see witch hunting of Unionisable staff for last year's strike...
I thought management told investors profits declined because of oil prices and European crisis...
the soaring hotel bills to the two hotels on Msa road which operate at occupancy levels of up to 105% courtesy of KQ's...
Get a low cost solution to fly ....

Applause Applause spoken like 10 men

Ditto Applause Applause
McReggae
#98 Posted : Wednesday, September 05, 2012 9:23:40 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
Standard page 28, just saw a person I know there!!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
Impunity
#99 Posted : Wednesday, September 05, 2012 9:27:17 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,330
Location: Masada
McReggae wrote:
Standard page 28, just saw a person I know there!!!!


Rink?
Lady or mjamaa?
Sad Sad
Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.

McReggae
#100 Posted : Wednesday, September 05, 2012 9:33:04 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
Impunity wrote:
McReggae wrote:
Standard page 28, just saw a person I know there!!!!


Rink?
Lady or mjamaa?
Sad Sad


Lady, I have the paper live live, tafuta!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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