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why is RAO interfering with a listed company yet he is not a share holder
Metasploit
#61 Posted : Monday, September 03, 2012 7:36:47 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/26/2012
Posts: 985
Location: Dar es salaam,Tanzania
Talked to KQ friends and they are happy about Rao's move.
Surprisingly!!
Aparently Naikuni and another politician have a stake in the firm that they want to outsource to!
Them think the problem is with Naikuni's management and not the wages..Plus they dont understand why the foreigners wont be Axed.
Good for shareholders,bad for employees esp those on mortgages

“The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.”
MaichBlack
#62 Posted : Monday, September 03, 2012 8:17:36 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,703
Metasploit wrote:
Talked to KQ friends and they are happy about Rao's move.
Surprisingly!!

What a surprise!!! You talked to a fellow who might be on the list of those to be retrenched and he was happy about RAO's move? That's surprising indeed!!!

And about interest in companies this should be investigated but should NOT be used as an excuse to stop the retrenchment [If it is the best solution].

And I would not be surprised if it is propaganda. We are dealing with people with masters in propaganda technology!
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
Fomoney
#63 Posted : Monday, September 03, 2012 8:20:12 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/9/2006
Posts: 79
Metasploit wrote:
Talked to KQ friends and they are happy about Rao's move.
Surprisingly!!
Aparently Naikuni and another politician have a stake in the firm that they want to outsource to!
Them think the problem is with Naikuni's management and not the wages..Plus they dont understand why the foreigners wont be Axed.
Good for shareholders,bad for employees esp those on mortgages


Am a shareholder and if KQ doesn't improve it's performance I will be worried about my mortgage too.Their wage bill needs to be cut.
MaichBlack
#64 Posted : Monday, September 03, 2012 8:30:16 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,703
Fomoney wrote:
Metasploit wrote:
Talked to KQ friends and they are happy about Rao's move.
Surprisingly!!
Aparently Naikuni and another politician have a stake in the firm that they want to outsource to!
Them think the problem is with Naikuni's management and not the wages..Plus they dont understand why the foreigners wont be Axed.
Good for shareholders,bad for employees esp those on mortgages


Am a shareholder and if KQ doesn't improve it's performance I will be worried about my mortgage too.Their wage bill needs to be cut.

Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause

The way some people are reasoning, it is evident they have never run any sort of business - even a kiosk!

In business, one has to make tough decisions. Jobs might have to be merged, others declared unnecessary, branches closed etc. Even if you have employed your brother/sister to manage branch x as you manage branch y, if branch x is losing money, it will have to be closed. If you don't BOTH you and your brother will be jobless.

Most companies have actually introduced the concept of cost centres so that each department can justify it's existence.

If I am running an SME and make 20m a year, it doesn't mean I will not fire people. Maybe unit x made 30m profit amd unit y made 10m loss. If unit y cannot turn a profit, then it goes in as much as the "company" is making money!
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
Fomoney
#65 Posted : Tuesday, September 04, 2012 5:25:45 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/9/2006
Posts: 79
@Maich, some people think investors start companies to create jobs. Nah,that's why they get robots when they can. Objective is to produce goods and services at the lowest cost to enable them turn a profit. Naikuni has to fire some people or loose his job. If he can't someone else will. Raila is a businessman and would have been out of business reasoning like that, just playing populism as usual.
Njung'e
#66 Posted : Tuesday, September 04, 2012 8:19:46 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
You are all idiots!!....Pamba is such an astute businessman.He wines and dines and leaves the bill behind for Migooner to foot.smile
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
kyt
#67 Posted : Tuesday, September 04, 2012 8:26:36 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/7/2007
Posts: 2,182
naikuni should lead my example and resign for ruining shareholder value. 24% increase when the company has made a 50.1% drop in profit. this is insane.
LOVE WHAT YOU DO, DO WHAT YOU LOVE.
McReggae
#68 Posted : Tuesday, September 04, 2012 8:33:50 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
Almost for 10yrs now, Naikuni has grown this so called bloated !!!workforce from about 2000 to now well over 4000!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
Sasha
#69 Posted : Tuesday, September 04, 2012 8:53:17 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/5/2007
Posts: 627
mukiha wrote:

The cabin crew are part and parcel of their CORE function. It would be suicidal to out-source their service! It would be like a hotel outsourcing waiters.


@mukiha: KQ's core functions are selling airline seats for their various routes. Everything else from food service to baggage handling and aircraft cleaning are non-core. However, it depends on the strategy of the airline. Some airlines pride themselves in exemplary cabin service as their competitive advantage. KQ cannot claim this as their competitive advantage.

As much as I agree with you that it would not be a good idea to outsource the cabin crew, it can be done in a tactful way. The practice is that any function that involves repetitive tasks can (and should) be outsourced to specialists to allow the business to concentrate on core functions. For an airline, the cons outweigh the pros for outsourcing cabin service. Airline staff (in general, not KQ in this case) understand the value of their jobs for the airline's image and competition with other carriers. This attitude might be different for outsourced staff who more often than not will be on very low salaries.

My view is that any shareholder should be in support of this exercise. KQ will have explored other ways of maximizing shareholder value by cutting costs and determined that this is one of those ways.
Jamani
#70 Posted : Tuesday, September 04, 2012 10:23:30 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/12/2006
Posts: 1,554
Retrenching staff then increasing management salaries by 24%, management takes fat salaries increasing by 24% would most likely have the same impact as keeping the employees on board. And remember their services will be outsourced, question is at what cost?
As a shareholder you look at the bottom line..... with the two 24% increase and outsourcing will it change the bottom? and by what percentage?
Impunity
#71 Posted : Tuesday, September 04, 2012 10:54:01 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,330
Location: Masada
McReggae wrote:
Almost for 10yrs now, Naikuni has grown this so called bloated !!!workforce from about 2000 to now well over 4000!!!

Shame on you
Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.

Kihangeri
#72 Posted : Tuesday, September 04, 2012 1:06:07 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 11/10/2010
Posts: 550
Location: Junction
MaichBlack wrote:
I don't like commenting on politicians including RAO but this RAO fellow has gone too far. I have my f@#king money in this business and some politician writes a letter which has direct effect on my investment just because he wants votes??? I hate this busy body tendency especially when my hard earned cash is involved! Why does a fellow feel he should intefere in anything and everything from cattle dip affairs to Airline business just because he holds a position we never voted for?

Are we a communist country? This is a capitalist country and KQ is a publicly listed company. Someone get the fellow a dictionary and a book in basic economics! And I agree, this is not a FISH MARKET!!!

A politician can yap all he wants and give all the stories and promises he wants and I wouldn't care one bit! But when you start messing with my money/investment, then we have a problem!!!!


@Maichblack, that is for sure. Some guys are too thick to differentiate between Capital Markets and Fish Market especially if they did not finish primary school but progressed to be lecturers and professors through nepotism and cronism.
By inference, the man is all that Mr Phantom is not: an untrustworthy radical, divisive, too many enemies, a dictator, and a persistent liar...
Gaitho dialogues.


mukiha
#73 Posted : Tuesday, September 04, 2012 2:03:52 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
murchr wrote:
mukiha wrote:
murchr wrote:
Ondiek wrote:
Political pronouncements aside - why does KQ always undertake retrenchment to bolster their performance?


KQ's Mission is to maximize in profit making, not to create employment. Notice, they are acquiring new planes 787 that consume less fuel, greater capacity and covering long distances.


Now read this: www.kenya-airways.com/Ho...ways/Mission_and_Vision/


Muhika, If you went to business school am sure you learnt that the single most important objective of a company is to make PROFIT and grow the share holder value, without that the company is non-existent. Read their vision, its very clear and note on the mission where they mention employees - its in maximizing their satisfaction. Simply said, KQ cant satisfy the bloated workforce and still continue to grow the shareholder value. And note the company in not in existence to employ people, its there to screw competition and make mula


Like most business people, I did NOT go business school. And if that is what they teach, then I'll say I'm luck that I didn't go!

The notion that "the single most important objective of a company is to make PROFIT" is a fallacy peddled by "employee-type" people.

The day that a business begins to see profit as its PRIMARY motive also marks the beginning of its downfall.

look around and you will see that people who go into a line of business for profit alone don't last there for long. The moment they see the first sign of trouble, they jump out and go to the next "most profitable thing".

Businesses that last [and thrive] are driven by something more than the profit: the desire to satisfy a certain need in the market. Profit only serves to sustain the growth.

It is interesting that, on a personal level, we have very many people who have been driven to certain careers by the prospects of making a lot of money.

Like Jesus Christ asked 2,000 years ago "What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?"

What good will it be if you earn the highest salary in the land, but lose the opportunity to be what you were meant to be?

The same question can be asked of a business.

Thus when KQ says that its mission is "To maximise shareholder value..." the word value must be interpreted in a broad sense; not just in terms of profits. If it was profit that the framers of that mission had in mind, then they would have written "To maximise profits..."

But as it is; I have never seen a business that says its mission is to make the highest possible profit. Any business school teaching that has completely missed the point of business!
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
mukiha
#74 Posted : Tuesday, September 04, 2012 2:06:50 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
Sasha wrote:
mukiha wrote:

The cabin crew are part and parcel of their CORE function. It would be suicidal to out-source their service! It would be like a hotel outsourcing waiters.


@mukiha: KQ's core functions are selling airline seats for their various routes. Everything else from food service to baggage handling and aircraft cleaning are non-core. However, it depends on the strategy of the airline. Some airlines pride themselves in exemplary cabin service as their competitive advantage. KQ cannot claim this as their competitive advantage.

As much as I agree with you that it would not be a good idea to outsource the cabin crew, it can be done in a tactful way. The practice is that any function that involves repetitive tasks can (and should) be outsourced to specialists to allow the business to concentrate on core functions. For an airline, the cons outweigh the pros for outsourcing cabin service. Airline staff (in general, not KQ in this case) understand the value of their jobs for the airline's image and competition with other carriers. This attitude might be different for outsourced staff who more often than not will be on very low salaries.

My view is that any shareholder should be in support of this exercise. KQ will have explored other ways of maximizing shareholder value by cutting costs and determined that this is one of those ways.


No!!!

KQ's core function is to airlift people and goods from one place to another.

Selling tickets is a support function... and it can be outsourced easily.
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
mukiha
#75 Posted : Tuesday, September 04, 2012 2:11:08 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
I have to ask: Is @johng related to marting?
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
marting
#76 Posted : Tuesday, September 04, 2012 2:11:30 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 12/7/2009
Posts: 30
Location: Nairobi, Kenya
My 2 cents, is that it's easy to shout, "fire them all" and act all business savy and also state that this is capitalism and RAO should not impose himself (even though thats why we have politicians).
whichever way this ends ups, bottom line is families will be affected. (shareholders and/or workers, some more adverse than others.
Corporate is not socialism and this very clear, however, corporates need to exercise restraint when dealing with its workers...in actually KQ might not have the same leeway in sending home workers in it's foreign offices as that afforded back here in Kenya.
.Success is Intentional.
Sasha
#77 Posted : Tuesday, September 04, 2012 2:24:16 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/5/2007
Posts: 627
@mukiha: I did not say selling tickets is a core function. I said selling the seats which is a totally different thing. Most airlines have actually outsourced ticket sales.

How are they going to airlift people and goods from one place to another if they don't sell the seats and space?
Kausha
#78 Posted : Tuesday, September 04, 2012 3:17:42 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/8/2007
Posts: 808
KQ's retrenchment logic appears flawed. Although RAO is also hopeless in giving management of publicly owned and listed company directions. He can only do so through Gk board representatives or apply political pressure by making relevant noise which may tempt management to reconsider. Directing is out of place.

What I find flawed is KQ retrenching and yet they took in shareholder capital to fund an expansion programme. I surely hope they are retrenching not needed skills as opposed to old staff on the payroll. If only RAO took on the board from this angle especially after government committed more money, then he would have my support.

Interesting emirates has airline staff of 251 per aircraft on the fleet, yet KQ has 151 staff / aircraft. Simplistically one would argue KQ is understaffed or will be severely understaffed if it opens all these destination. Then Management should be telling us they have skills they don't need and will not need in the near future. Otherwise I can only see witch hunting of Unionisable staff for last year's strike. What austerity measures have been undertaken over the past 12 months, they surely can't hid behind profit declines to victimize union officials or staff in the Union. I thought management told investors profits declined because of oil prices and European crisis. Why should ordinary staff pay for these business cycle events, why couldn't the board negate the 24% pay hike to senior directors. What have they done about the soaring hotel bills to the two hotels on Msa road which operate at occupancy levels of up to 105% courtesy of KQ's operational messes. The problem is KQ strategy for flying around africa using long haul set up is on most routes loss making. So even if there is growth one can argue they are buying growth. Get a low cost solution to fly to africa and don't become Vasco da gama airlines trying to fly where it doesn't make business sense all in the name of expansion!
digitek1
#79 Posted : Tuesday, September 04, 2012 3:42:18 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/3/2010
Posts: 1,797
Location: Kenya
Kausha wrote:
KQ's retrenchment logic appears flawed. Although RAO is also hopeless in giving management of publicly owned and listed company directions. He can only do so through Gk board representatives or apply political pressure by making relevant noise which may tempt management to reconsider. Directing is out of place.

What I find flawed is KQ retrenching and yet they took in shareholder capital to fund an expansion programme. I surely hope they are retrenching not needed skills as opposed to old staff on the payroll. If only RAO took on the board from this angle especially after government committed more money, then he would have my support.

Interesting emirates has airline staff of 251 per aircraft on the fleet, yet KQ has 151 staff / aircraft. Simplistically one would argue KQ is understaffed or will be severely understaffed if it opens all these destination. Then Management should be telling us they have skills they don't need and will not need in the near future. Otherwise I can only see witch hunting of Unionisable staff for last year's strike. What austerity measures have been undertaken over the past 12 months, they surely can't hid behind profit declines to victimize union officials or staff in the Union. I thought management told investors profits declined because of oil prices and European crisis. Why should ordinary staff pay for these business cycle events, why couldn't the board negate the 24% pay hike to senior directors. What have they done about the soaring hotel bills to the two hotels on Msa road which operate at occupancy levels of up to 105% courtesy of KQ's operational messes. The problem is KQ strategy for flying around africa using long haul set up is on most routes loss making. So even if there is growth one can argue they are buying growth. Get a low cost solution to fly to africa and don't become Vasco da gama airlines trying to fly where it doesn't make business sense all in the name of expansion!

Applause Applause spoken like 10 men
I may be wrong..but then I could be right
marting
#80 Posted : Tuesday, September 04, 2012 4:13:55 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 12/7/2009
Posts: 30
Location: Nairobi, Kenya
mukiha wrote:
I have to ask: Is @johng related to marting?

Shame on you Shame on you thats a fallacy of composition.
FYI- Kq has gone ahead with the layoffs......
.Success is Intentional.
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