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"The Kibaki administration and its security agents have now criminalised professing Islam &
Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/8/2008 Posts: 1,575
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Abdullahi going out on a limb here LinkWhen did bringing up children become solely a government's job? A policy to kill troublesome muslims by government? The policy maker - minister in charge of internal security- is a Muslim or not? I do not understand how some things get published in these papers.... I care!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/25/2010 Posts: 939 Location: Nai
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thuks wrote:Abdullahi going out on a limb here LinkWhen did bringing up children become solely a government's job? A policy to kill troublesome muslims by government? The policy maker - minister in charge of internal security- is a Muslim or not? I do not understand how some things get published in these papers.... One can imagine the fear that many Kenyan Muslims live under for the simple reason that they profess the Islamic faith. Share This Story
The Kibaki administration and its security agents have now criminalised professing Islam and that is likely to have dire consequences for the future harmony and stability of the country.Abdullahi has gone way too far. isn't this the same tactic that Alshabab are using making the muslim youth feel that they are oppressed and that the government is against muslims.
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/25/2011 Posts: 368 Location: Nairobi
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The Nation Media has given Abdullahi a platform to continue with Rogo's ideas of inciting Muslims against everyone else. Some of his comments are a bit disturbing...and I quote "It is a government policy that gives a firm notice to any Muslim leader that death ultimately awaits him. This clearly shows how rogue the security agents under this regime have become. One can imagine the fear that many Kenyan Muslims live under for the simple reason that they profess the Islamic faith. The Kibaki administration and its security agents have now criminalised professing Islam and that is likely to have dire consequences for the future harmony and stability of the country" If as Abdullahi says Rogo was killed by the government because of his faith, is he confirming that professing Islam means you should promote the killing of everyone else who does not profess the faith. Here get to know more about Rogo. http://www.standardmedia...,-propagated-extremism-
Does Abdullahi mean that if a Muslim kills or incite others to kill, we should understand that they are just professing a faith and because we have freedom to express our faith in Kenya, the government should therefore do nothing about it not even an arrest because this will also amount to persecuting Islam?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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@Tassia, I think some of what Abdullahi has written is truth. What mistake did the dead clerics (Khan and Rogo) make? Why was they not arrested and charged in court of law? You believe the police story that they found Rogo with arms? Why did they release him if this was true? Then kill him?
Point out what is not right, or is this a case of "accusing people without evidence"?
I agree that we have to fight wrongs in all possible ways, but not through bypassing the normal rules of evidence, presumption of Guilt and abuse of Human rights.
Ok let me remind you how this government has been operating. Forget Muslim, look at other people who have fought for one thing or another and they ended up dead in the hands of those who are supposed to protect.
I can just name Odhiambo Mbai, Oscar Kamau Kingara (Oscar Foundation) and John Paul Oulo. They were shot dead by gunmen and others by police killings.
What you are seeing is some people just indicting others because they are not your favourite, just because they are fighting for rights of some people. And now you see Muslims, speaking for one of their own, who is accussed and there is no evidence that they have seen, they have to support him or her. They cannot say he must have done something wrong, because then they can go to sleep, eat our own food, and enjoy ourselves and forget that he is a Kenyan and is one of us.
But as I said before, we have become stooches of the West, what uncle Sam says, you do. Even when they told you kill one of your own you just kill! No, we have to say they must be innocent, because the rule even in the Western world, is that a person is innocent until proven guilty.
So if our own is taken from home or even from street, and they are held for suspicion of anything, we must feel like our finger has been cut off. Like someone has stepped on our chest, like someone snatched our son or our daughter. That is why you see those people going to the police station, calling, asking, crying and begging.
But because it is not our son. Because it is not our daughter. And we do not have to see them physically, we say nothing. In fact we support the killing!
Oh Kenyans, are we guilty just because we are Muslims? And what will you wait? Will you wait until you wake up one morning a knock comes through your door. And you are pulled out of your house and separately from your wife and children. And you are put inside a prison?
And will you wait until thousands of you, and it is happening now, and you say, not to me! But because it is only happening one by one by one and you go to work in the morning and you have to take care of your own business, mind your business. You just say, that Muslim, he must have been guilty.
It will be your son, it will be your daughter, grand son, it will be you
I say we have to supprort our Kenyans. We cannot leave them to be oppressed by those in power.
You can challenge the above, and try to defend the actions, but you cannot take away the fact that there is more than meet the eye.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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AlphDoti wrote:@Tassia, I think some of what Abdullahi has written is truth. What mistake did the dead clerics (Khan and Rogo) make? Why was they not arrested and charged in court of law? You believe the police story that they found Rogo with arms? Why did they release him if this was true? Then kill him?
Point out what is not right, or is this a case of "accusing people without evidence"?
I agree that we have to fight wrongs in all possible ways, but not through bypassing the normal rules of evidence, presumption of Guilt and abuse of Human rights.
Ok let me remind you how this government has been operating. Forget Muslim, look at other people who have fought for one thing or another and they ended up dead in the hands of those who are supposed to protect.
I can just name Odhiambo Mbai, Oscar Kamau Kingara (Oscar Foundation) and John Paul Oulo. They were shot dead by gunmen and others by police killings.
What you are seeing is some people just indicting others because they are not your favourite, just because they are fighting for rights of some people. And now you see Muslims, speaking for one of their own, who is accussed and there is no evidence that they have seen, they have to support him or her. They cannot say he must have done something wrong, because then they can go to sleep, eat our own food, and enjoy ourselves and forget that he is a Kenyan and is one of us.
But as I said before, we have become stooches of the West, what uncle Sam says, you do. Even when they told you kill one of your own you just kill! No, we have to say they must be innocent, because the rule even in the Western world, is that a person is innocent until proven guilty.
So if our own is taken from home or even from street, and they are held for suspicion of anything, we must feel like our finger has been cut off. Like someone has stepped on our chest, like someone snatched our son or our daughter. That is why you see those people going to the police station, calling, asking, crying and begging.
But because it is not our son. Because it is not our daughter. And we do not have to see them physically, we say nothing. In fact we support the killing!
Oh Kenyans, are we guilty just because we are Muslims? And what will you wait? Will you wait until you wake up one morning a knock comes through your door. And you are pulled out of your house and separately from your wife and children. And you are put inside a prison?
And will you wait until thousands of you, and it is happening now, and you say, not to me! But because it is only happening one by one by one and you go to work in the morning and you have to take care of your own business, mind your business. You just say, that Muslim, he must have been guilty.
It will be your son, it will be your daughter, grand son, it will be you
I say we have to supprort our Kenyans. We cannot leave them to be oppressed by those in power.
You can challenge the above, and try to defend the actions, but you cannot take away the fact that there is more than meet the eye. Why are u assuming they were killed by the police? "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore .
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/25/2012 Posts: 261
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This Ahamednasir Abdullahi is a war lord in the making. How can he dare say that the Kibaki administration has criminalised professing Islam. Isn't that tantamount to inciting.
"It is a government policy that gives a firm notice to any Muslim leader that death ultimately awaits him" This statement ought to be taken with the weight it carries. I am a muslim but do not feel the same. Where is the biased Mzalendo and his useless team.
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/25/2011 Posts: 368 Location: Nairobi
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@AlphDoti I would have liked to answer you but sorry. You appear not to be well informed about the issues you attempt to discuss.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/25/2010 Posts: 939 Location: Nai
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@AlphDoti The two clerics publicly claimed to be friends of alshabab they were all over preaching against peace in this country its on tape and were happy when innocent civilian were killed.
And stop assuming they were killed by the police.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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CIA... possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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@Tassia, Why were they arrested, released, then killed? Why were they not charged in court of law and jailed? Why kill them?
@jamplu what is the meaning of "overpreaching". Give us the evidence, not hearsay. We want to listen to these tapes too. RINK please. What do you say about those killed mysteriously before? Not police, who? Aren't the Kenyan police supposed to protect the people? Where is justice by killing?
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/25/2011 Posts: 368 Location: Nairobi
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AlphDoti wrote:@Tassia, Why were they arrested, released, then killed? Why were they not charged in court of law and jailed? Why kill them?
@jamplu what is the meaning of "overpreaching". Give us the evidence, not hearsay. We want to listen to these tapes too. RINK please. What do you say about those killed mysteriously before? Not police, who? Aren't the Kenyan police supposed to protect the people? Where is justice by killing? Those questions you are asking me makes me not able to have a discussion with you. Try and see the problem with your questions and then we will discuss. If you had the least facts about this, you would not be asking those questions. Do you live in Kenya? Do you listen and read the same newspapers that I read or where do you get your information from?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/19/2008 Posts: 4,268
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AlphDoti wrote:@Tassia, I think some of what Abdullahi has written is truth. I hope part of this truth is not the insinuations that the government is criminalizing the islam faith!!! What mistake did the dead clerics (Khan and Rogo) make? These are the questions we should be asking. Was there any wrong commited by these clerics? Was whoever killed them justified to kill them without trial. Not because they were muslims, but because they are kenyans with human rights.Why was they not arrested and charged in court of law? You believe the police story that they found Rogo with arms? Why did they release him if this was true? Then kill him?
I can just name Odhiambo Mbai, Oscar Kamau Kingara (Oscar Foundation) and John Paul Oulo. They were shot dead by gunmen and others by police killings. Am glad you brought this one out well.... so, how many protests by christians did we see where they went ahead and burnt the mosques? So why are the youth in Mombasa burning churches? It is justified to fight for people's rights, it is completely unjustified to claim that the person was killed because he is muslim and so innocent christians have to face the wrath! That is not acceptable at all!
What you are seeing is some people just indicting others because they are not your favourite, just because they are fighting for rights of some people.Very true, but why drag in the religion? Was he killed because he was a muslim or because he was a suspected criminal? Then, the government would be killing alot of muslims around because they are many.... What i find uninteresting is how we are able to drag in the religion when it was actually not the reason someone crossed the government's lines. How many muslim leaders are there and they fight for muslim rights but in a just and noncriminal way? And now you see Muslims, speaking for one of their own, who is accussed and there is no evidence that they have seen, they have to support him or her. They cannot say he must have done something wrong, because then they can go to sleep, eat our own food, and enjoy ourselves and forget that he is a Kenyan and is one of us.
But because it is not our son. Because it is not our daughter. And we do not have to see them physically, we say nothing. In fact we support the killing!
Very well said. Have we heard him come out that strongly to defend the fallen kenyans who are none muslims - still under the hand of government? how many of our youths have been killed in suspicion that they are mungiki? do we then come out and say that they are being killed just because they are kikuyus or christians and we go ahead and burn mosques and luhya houses in protest? Oh Kenyans, are we guilty just because we are Muslims? And what will you wait? Will you wait until you wake up one morning a knock comes through your door. And you are pulled out of your house and separately from your wife and children. And you are put inside a prison?
I say we have to supprort our KenyansThis is the spirit! Our fellow kenyans. We cannot leave them to be oppressed by those in power.
You can challenge the above, and try to defend the actions, but you cannot take away the fact that there is more than meet the eye.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/19/2008 Posts: 4,268
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AlphDoti wrote:@Tassia, Why were they arrested, released, then killed? Why were they not charged in court of law and jailed? Why kill them?
@jamplu what is the meaning of "overpreaching". Give us the evidence, not hearsay. We want to listen to these tapes too. RINK please. What do you say about those killed mysteriously before? Not police, who? Aren't the Kenyan police supposed to protect the people? Where is justice by killing? Really? Alph? Really? Did you even read that sentence you've quoted that word from?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 8/11/2010 Posts: 1,588
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AlphDoti wrote:@Tassia, I think some of what Abdullahi has written is truth. What mistake did the dead clerics (Khan and Rogo) make? Why was they not arrested and charged in court of law? You believe the police story that they found Rogo with arms? Why did they release him if this was true? Then kill him?
Point out what is not right, or is this a case of "accusing people without evidence"?
I agree that we have to fight wrongs in all possible ways, but not through bypassing the normal rules of evidence, presumption of Guilt and abuse of Human rights.
Ok let me remind you how this government has been operating. Forget Muslim, look at other people who have fought for one thing or another and they ended up dead in the hands of those who are supposed to protect.
I can just name Odhiambo Mbai, Oscar Kamau Kingara (Oscar Foundation) and John Paul Oulo. They were shot dead by gunmen and others by police killings.
What you are seeing is some people just indicting others because they are not your favourite, just because they are fighting for rights of some people. And now you see Muslims, speaking for one of their own, who is accussed and there is no evidence that they have seen, they have to support him or her. They cannot say he must have done something wrong, because then they can go to sleep, eat our own food, and enjoy ourselves and forget that he is a Kenyan and is one of us.
But as I said before, we have become stooches of the West, what uncle Sam says, you do. Even when they told you kill one of your own you just kill! No, we have to say they must be innocent, because the rule even in the Western world, is that a person is innocent until proven guilty.
So if our own is taken from home or even from street, and they are held for suspicion of anything, we must feel like our finger has been cut off. Like someone has stepped on our chest, like someone snatched our son or our daughter. That is why you see those people going to the police station, calling, asking, crying and begging.
But because it is not our son. Because it is not our daughter. And we do not have to see them physically, we say nothing. In fact we support the killing!
Oh Kenyans, are we guilty just because we are Muslims? And what will you wait? Will you wait until you wake up one morning a knock comes through your door. And you are pulled out of your house and separately from your wife and children. And you are put inside a prison?
And will you wait until thousands of you, and it is happening now, and you say, not to me! But because it is only happening one by one by one and you go to work in the morning and you have to take care of your own business, mind your business. You just say, that Muslim, he must have been guilty.
It will be your son, it will be your daughter, grand son, it will be you
I say we have to supprort our Kenyans. We cannot leave them to be oppressed by those in power.
You can challenge the above, and try to defend the actions, but you cannot take away the fact that there is more than meet the eye. That is why when our own is taken from us by bloodthirsty fellows using bombs and such we feel very offended. And by the way, who is your own? Is it your fellow countryman? Or is it some foreigner from a neighbouring country?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Wendz wrote:AlphDoti wrote:@Tassia, Why were they arrested, released, then killed? Why were they not charged in court of law and jailed? Why kill them?
@jamplu what is the meaning of "overpreaching". Give us the evidence, not hearsay. We want to listen to these tapes too. RINK please. What do you say about those killed mysteriously before? Not police, who? Aren't the Kenyan police supposed to protect the people? Where is justice by killing? Really? Alph? Really? Did you even read that sentence you've quoted that word from? Thank you @Wendz, I have re-read it again. Still reading the other replies...
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 1,982 Location: matano manne
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YesuWangu wrote:AlphDoti wrote:@Tassia, I think some of what Abdullahi has written is truth. What mistake did the dead clerics (Khan and Rogo) make? Why was they not arrested and charged in court of law? You believe the police story that they found Rogo with arms? Why did they release him if this was true? Then kill him?
Point out what is not right, or is this a case of "accusing people without evidence"?
I agree that we have to fight wrongs in all possible ways, but not through bypassing the normal rules of evidence, presumption of Guilt and abuse of Human rights.
Ok let me remind you how this government has been operating. Forget Muslim, look at other people who have fought for one thing or another and they ended up dead in the hands of those who are supposed to protect.
I can just name Odhiambo Mbai, Oscar Kamau Kingara (Oscar Foundation) and John Paul Oulo. They were shot dead by gunmen and others by police killings.
What you are seeing is some people just indicting others because they are not your favourite, just because they are fighting for rights of some people. And now you see Muslims, speaking for one of their own, who is accussed and there is no evidence that they have seen, they have to support him or her. They cannot say he must have done something wrong, because then they can go to sleep, eat our own food, and enjoy ourselves and forget that he is a Kenyan and is one of us.
But as I said before, we have become stooches of the West, what uncle Sam says, you do. Even when they told you kill one of your own you just kill! No, we have to say they must be innocent, because the rule even in the Western world, is that a person is innocent until proven guilty.
So if our own is taken from home or even from street, and they are held for suspicion of anything, we must feel like our finger has been cut off. Like someone has stepped on our chest, like someone snatched our son or our daughter. That is why you see those people going to the police station, calling, asking, crying and begging.
But because it is not our son. Because it is not our daughter. And we do not have to see them physically, we say nothing. In fact we support the killing!
Oh Kenyans, are we guilty just because we are Muslims? And what will you wait? Will you wait until you wake up one morning a knock comes through your door. And you are pulled out of your house and separately from your wife and children. And you are put inside a prison?
And will you wait until thousands of you, and it is happening now, and you say, not to me! But because it is only happening one by one by one and you go to work in the morning and you have to take care of your own business, mind your business. You just say, that Muslim, he must have been guilty.
It will be your son, it will be your daughter, grand son, it will be you
I say we have to supprort our Kenyans. We cannot leave them to be oppressed by those in power.
You can challenge the above, and try to defend the actions, but you cannot take away the fact that there is more than meet the eye. That is why when our own is taken from us by bloodthirsty fellows using bombs and such we feel very offended. And by the way, who is your own? Is it your fellow countryman? Or is it some foreigner from a neighbouring country? . Alph..... It would be very prudent to look at the whole Rogo episode broadly and in a wholesome manner so as to appreciate the intricate nature of not crime but TERRORISM. 1. Aboud Rogo supported terrorism in material, and moral ways. 2. Rogo openly recruited Kenyan youths to fight our own KDF in Somalia. this to me is HIGH TREASON. 3. Rogo does not represent Islam in Kenya hence his brand of Radicalism is not shared by all Muslims in Kenya. 4. The killers of the cleric are not known. 5. Rogo supported and even urged more killing of Kuffars after the Garissa Church attack. 6. We can deduce that Abdullahi is a sympathiser of Al Shaabab. He does not condemn the killing of Police officers nor see the threat posed by possession of guns and grenades by what he calls unemployed youths (avoiding calling them TERRORISTS) nor condemning them. 7. The mobs who attacked churches and police officers in Mombasa are not unemployed youths, hooligans, or criminals. they are TERRORISTS. They hate non believers "Kuffar, kaffir...." [size=6] The riots by a few unemployed youths and their burning and looting of churches were not inspired by any hatred of the Christian community 8.We lack leaders who can call a spade a spade. We are faced with the threat of TERRORISTS[/b][/color] in our midst camouflaged as human rights activists, preachers, leaders etc. We like to revert to the old and tired thread of: "[i]These were opportunistic crimes that, in a way, show the failure of the government to address the needs of school- going children in Mombasa who, instead, are drug addicts." Marginalization, discrimination, exploitation, land..... blablabla. 9. While the killers of the cleric should be exposed, the killers of the police officers must be hunted down, smoked out and by all means necessary be punished. 10. Those who incite violence against the state (police and other institutions) must not be allowed to preach this nonsense under whatever pretext (religious, human rights, freedom of expression etc) it is the responsibility of the state to preempt such activities and keep such persons busy fearing that they can be punished. 11. There is serious need to address the inadequacies of the constitution in the face of threat to state security and sovereignty. The state is bigger than the individual.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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YesuWangu wrote:AlphDoti wrote: It will be your son, it will be your daughter, grand son, it will be you
I say we have to supprort our Kenyans. We cannot leave them to be oppressed by those in power.
You can challenge the above, and try to defend the actions, but you cannot take away the fact that there is more than meet the eye.
That is why when our own is taken from us by bloodthirsty fellows using bombs and such we feel very offended. And by the way, who is your own? Is it your fellow countryman? Or is it some foreigner from a neighbouring country? I engaged you once about "terrorism" but you never said a word. Terrorism bill
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2007 Posts: 8,776 Location: Cameroon
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A Dog died. That was cool. TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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@rahatupu, good points. Wendz wrote:...Was there any wrong commited by these clerics? Was whoever killed them justified to kill them without trial... @Wendz there should not be any extra-judicial killing. Where is the evidence. If there is evidence, why not charge the person and jail him. @Tassia, no Muslim support's terrorism. No Muslim supports killing of innocent people. Instead, let's be careful in blindly supporting the agenda of these whites. They change meaning of terrorism to suit them. When they invade a society, they do not call it terrorism. But when the same society defend itself by hitting them back, they call it terrorism.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2007 Posts: 8,776 Location: Cameroon
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Same old cheap story of evidence. That is why mungiki had to be dealt with the way it was. Hard to proof some of these things. How many times had that terrorist been released by the courts? Shoot baby shoot. TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
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