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Recover money from an "errant" land vendor. Please help!
incognito
#1 Posted : Friday, August 10, 2012 12:50:33 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/29/2011
Posts: 233
I bought some land in Mombasa from a man based in Nairobi. It was a subdivision and we signed an agreement prepared and witnessed by a registered advocate. It was agreed that he would register and deliver the title deed to me within a period of 2 months. It has been 8 months now and he still claims the process is not completed. We communicate and his update is always the same: that the title deeds are almost ready but there is a "small" hitch. I have waited for far too long:
1. What should i do to recover the money from this land vendor? The agreement is still valid and i have all his personal details including ID/Passport numbers i got after a background check on him(Thanks to a wazuan here)
2. How can i check the progress of the titles being processed now that I'm far from Nairobi/Mombasa ?

Your thoughts and advice are welcome.


Excelsior
seeker*
#2 Posted : Friday, August 10, 2012 5:35:32 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/11/2009
Posts: 132
Location: nairobi
I can only answer question 1.
Look for him,get him arrested for obtaining money under false pretense. (conning) Avoid going the --I want my money refunded way--- it will be treated as a civil case, and you don't want that to happen to you ever.The civil cases go on for ages and the police can't help.They always say,sisi hatuitishiangi watu madeni!
Don't fight a battle if you gain nothing by winning.” Erwin Rommel
When I was a child, I spoke like a child, thought like a child, and reasoned like a child. When I became an adult, I no longer used childish ways.
King G
#3 Posted : Monday, August 13, 2012 7:11:25 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2012
Posts: 3,855
Location: Othumo
Organise mamboys to work on his knees and knee cup. Then you send him flowers in hosi
Thieves
mawinder
#4 Posted : Tuesday, August 14, 2012 6:36:22 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/30/2008
Posts: 6,029
King G wrote:
Organise mamboys to work on his knees and knee cup. Then you send him flowers in hosi

seconded.why waste time with legalities when for 50k the problem can be solved once and for all.
King G
#5 Posted : Thursday, August 16, 2012 5:30:58 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2012
Posts: 3,855
Location: Othumo
Sad
Thieves
Kaka M
#6 Posted : Friday, August 17, 2012 11:41:05 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/18/2011
Posts: 459
If am not wrong, if an owner of a piece of land has a valid title deed and wants to sell he or she is supposed to sign transfers documents then it would be up to you to obtain a title deed. Y is the seller following up your title deed for U?
Assuming that its a plot in a prime area this plot will in 8 months have appreciated at least 50%, if I were the seller I wouldn't mind selling it at the new price and paying you back what you paid and pocketing the profit.
@ Incognito if you took the right steps to ascertain ownership and to acquire the land, take over the process of application for title deed, take some time off from work travel to the coast and get the issue settled. The seller has business of his own to take care of, unless you agreed that he is to get the final installment after he delivers the document then you can be sure the file is accumulating layers of dust at his home or in the lands office. Bear in mind that he is dealing with civil servants in offices where unless things have really changed there are brokers waiting to assist those interested to get their title deeds within the shortest time possible.
anika66
#7 Posted : Friday, August 17, 2012 7:35:41 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/25/2010
Posts: 158
I do not want to go to the legalities of this case but i want to advice myself that in Kenya there are many people who call themselves 'land owners' just because they parted with some money to purchase a piece of land. Many people pay money for land but fail to follow up with the process that will put the tittle deed in their hands. They even get to enter the land but are shocked later to find out that the land does not legally belong to them because the transfer of the land has not yet taken place. I suffered this fate once, i trusted a colleague at work who had a piece of land to sell to me. I had just taken a sacco loan and i wanted to become a land owner. I took my mum and we surveyed the land and even took over the land. We had executed the land control board documents and the only thing remaining was to get the board approval so i could pay the final balance on only 20,000. I am tellign you even though i stayed on this land for about two years, i ended up vacating because the many refused to transfer the land or even finish the land board process. He conned me of my money which i later recovered through a court process. So please dont think that because your eyes have seen a piece of land, your feet have walked over that land and a lawyer has drafted the sale agreement that the land belongs to you. Always follow the whole process until you have the title deed in your hands and the deed has your actual name. Most of the land sales are con games, and it hard for sellers to do the right thing even though they take your money
Keeping it all in the family
mamu
#8 Posted : Thursday, August 23, 2012 2:07:36 PM
Rank: Hello


Joined: 4/19/2012
Posts: 9

I note that the seller was to sub-divide the land and sell to you a portion of it. this could be the reason why he preferred to do the registration himself. What you need to find out is whether the sub-division process was finalised, if it was, did you sign the transfer documents for your portion of the property, if so, has the seller lodged the documents for registration at the lands office, if he has request him to provide you with a copy of the "booking form" which is used when one lodges documents for registration at the lands office. with a copy of this doc, you can go to another lawyer or get a good clerk you can follow up the registration formalities with the lands office on your behalf. All these processes do take long but it is good to be clear on where the transaction has reached and ask for copies of all docs.

if none of the above has not been done. God help you as it could actually be a con as stated by others.
incognito
#9 Posted : Thursday, August 23, 2012 2:33:49 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/29/2011
Posts: 233
Thanks for all the replies:
@ Mamu the seller had not finalised approval for the subdivision when i signed the agreement. It had been subdivided and there were beacons. However at the end of last year i was able to see the deed plan for the pieces of land including mine.Apparently he claimed approval for subdivision took very long but he claims it has been finalized and they are now preparing the titles at the land offices in NRB.
The agreement was that he would finalize all the registration process and deliver a title to me. He asked for my KRA pin, copy of Id and passport photos that were to be used in the registration. I have not been asked to sign any transfer papers at any point and i assumed the agreement would suffice.
Can he lodge the documents for registration without me having physically signed the transfer documents? I have been assuming that he can carry out the transfer without my physical signature. Basically the agreement would serve as my "signature".
I will request for that booking form and see what happens. Im getting a sick feeling about this, although the seller still takes my calls.
Excelsior
mamu
#10 Posted : Monday, September 03, 2012 12:27:08 PM
Rank: Hello


Joined: 4/19/2012
Posts: 9
incognito,

unfortunately the agreement for sale is only used as proof of the arrangement/agreement between two people and is not a registrable document. You need to sign the transfer doc otherwise the land will never be registered in your name!
Okonkwo
#11 Posted : Monday, September 03, 2012 12:41:26 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/29/2009
Posts: 85
This process of sub-division is very tricky and I personally I gave my surveyor to do it for me. He took 1 year and every time he told me the title will be ready the following week. I took it upon myself, and managed to get the titles within 2 weeks. Dont blame the seller. Do due dilligence, and may be find out if the title can be transferred directly to you. I dont advocate on working on his knee cap, this wont bring the money back.
totob
#12 Posted : Tuesday, September 04, 2012 7:08:43 PM
Rank: Hello


Joined: 8/21/2012
Posts: 3
if I may chip in man, the process of subdivision I believe is what one makes it to be. 1st of all I hope u had an advocate when getting into the transaction. If you did press him to follow up, why else do you pay him? 2ndly, for a subdivision to take place their ought to be a sub-division scheme, i hope u saw one. thirdly and fourthly there ought to be signing of transfer docs and LCB Application forms depending on where the land is. If all these have not been done and its over 8 months now I'm afraid u r being taken for a ride. Read the sale agreement (which I ope both parties signed & was attested) and find out if it has set a way of dispute resolution. Either arbitration or anything else. also u can go to court, for specific performance or for damages and interest thereon from the amount u paid. going under criminal case.....noooo, u wont get ur money back. what u want is money or land. and of d two i bet land is better obviously it has appreciated and worth more. go 4 specific performance. But ultimately out of Court settlement is always the best, let Court be last resort.
mnandii
#13 Posted : Tuesday, September 04, 2012 8:10:35 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/11/2006
Posts: 2,304
Okonkwo wrote:
Do due dilligence, and may be find out if the title can be transferred directly to you. I dont advocate on working on his knee cap, this wont bring the money back.

When a parcel of land is sub-divided ALL the subdivisions are initially registered in the name of the Proprietor(i.e. the owner B4 the subdivision).
Only then can a transfer to other parties take place.
Conventional thinkers waste time building shelters when they are unnecessary and then have no shelters when they need them the most. Socionomists do the opposite.
Okonkwo
#14 Posted : Wednesday, September 12, 2012 12:18:40 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/29/2009
Posts: 85
@mnandii
The registrar told me if the buyer pays stamp duty, it can be registered to name of buyer directly. Am not sure though. All mine I sub-divide to my name first.
Magigi
#15 Posted : Thursday, September 13, 2012 2:25:43 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/31/2008
Posts: 7,081
Location: Kenya
King G wrote:
Organise mamboys to work on his knees and knee cup (cap). Then you send him flowers in hosi

@King...You are just the kingLaughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
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